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Old 08-16-2015, 11:13 PM   #1
Gixxerguy86
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Front brake fade

So I replaced my 30-year-old front brake lines with stainless braided lines recently and now I have way more feel and response than I ever did before. both front calipers were rebuilt with all new seals about a year ago and so was the master cylinder, also brand new EBC FA series pads (organic/non-sintered) theres no leaks and no remaining air in the lines/calipers

Im noticing now more than before that my brakes fade pretty easily, I can pull the lever to the handlebar after 1 semi-hard stop. I'm running valvolene DOT 3&4 brake fluid. Its gotta be either the brake fluid or pads that are at fault, although I never really had any problems with the fluid. I'm running it in my rear brake as well and can't notice any fade when I really stop hard without skidding

any of y'all run into this problem? Ill end up probably replacing both anyway, thinking of switching to motul DOT 5.1 fluid and HH pads
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Old 08-16-2015, 11:33 PM   #2
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#1 on the HH. Sintered is the only way to fly. Good feel and long life.
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Old 08-16-2015, 11:37 PM   #3
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The HH pads are okay but the Extreme Pros are better. Vesrah is even better.
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Old 08-17-2015, 12:07 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiller View Post
The HH pads are okay but the Extreme Pros are better. Vesrah is even better.
I've heard nothing but good things about vesrah pads, Id have to check if theres a set made for my bike. you think these pads aren't too much for everyday street use? Im never hard on my brakes, but I do like the piece of mind that they will work when I need them to, especially if I do end up doing a track day in the near future. I like the feel (except for the fading), quietness, and cleanliness of the organics
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Old 08-17-2015, 07:05 AM   #5
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The sintered pads will be a huge improvement over the organic.

A word of advice on using track based pads on the street:
The pads take a few stops to get up to temp and give full stopping power.
If you do a lot of street riding vs track the pads can glaze.
The pads can be harsh on the older rotors.
The pads will wear quicker than standard sintered pads.

Imo for your application a good set of EBC HH pads will offer a big improvement over what you have without any downsides.
Make sure to clean the rotors well with Scotchbrite and brake cleaner before installation to remove any old pad material, and then bed the new pads in with 8-10 stops from about 35-40 mph.
I normally carry pads for your bike in stock.
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Old 08-17-2015, 08:08 AM   #6
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Seconding everything Patrick just said. Go get some EBC HH pads, some scouring pads, and a can of brake cleaner.

I use the same cheapass brake fluid that you do. It's not great, but it's not "mushy lever after one hard stop" bad.
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Old 08-17-2015, 08:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
The sintered pads will be a huge improvement over the organic.

A word of advice on using track based pads on the street:
The pads take a few stops to get up to temp and give full stopping power.
If you do a lot of street riding vs track the pads can glaze.
The pads can be harsh on the older rotors.
The pads will wear quicker than standard sintered pads.

Imo for your application a good set of EBC HH pads will offer a big improvement over what you have without any downsides.
Make sure to clean the rotors well with Scotchbrite and brake cleaner before installation to remove any old pad material, and then bed the new pads in with 8-10 stops from about 35-40 mph.
I normally carry pads for your bike in stock.
thats exactly what I thought, and exactly what i would've thought to do with some new sintered pads. thanks!
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Old 08-17-2015, 08:17 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marxalot View Post
Seconding everything Patrick just said. Go get some EBC HH pads, some scouring pads, and a can of brake cleaner.

I use the same cheapass brake fluid that you do. It's not great, but it's not "mushy lever after one hard stop" bad.
good to know, I've been using this brake fluid in all my bikes since day one. granted this is the only street bike I've owned, but i would stop really hard on the other bikes and never had issues. or i would be really hard on the rear brake and never felt any fade

I think ill go with the DOT 5.1 still for good measure
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxerguy86 View Post
good to know, I've been using this brake fluid in all my bikes since day one. granted this is the only street bike I've owned, but i would stop really hard on the other bikes and never had issues. or i would be really hard on the rear brake and never felt any fade

I think ill go with the DOT 5.1 still for good measure
DOT 5.1 can be a pain in the to bleed.
Not all DOT 4 fluids are created equal. If heat dissipation/resistance to fade out s a concern I'd go with MO.or.tul RBF 600 which has a much higher boiling point than most other DOT 4 fluids.
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
DOT 5.1 can be a pain in the to bleed.
Not all DOT 4 fluids are created equal. If heat dissipation/resistance to fade out s a concern I'd go with MO.or.tul RBF 600 which has a much higher boiling point than most other DOT 4 fluids.
in the end thats what really matters, wet boiling point. thanks again!
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Old 08-17-2015, 12:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
DOT 5.1 can be a pain in the to bleed.
Not all DOT 4 fluids are created equal. If heat dissipation/resistance to fade out s a concern I'd go with MO.or.tul RBF 600 which has a much higher boiling point than most other DOT 4 fluids.
What makes DOT 5.1 more difficult to bleed than a DOT 3 or 4? Is the fluid more prone to trapping small air bubbles?
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Old 08-17-2015, 02:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
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What makes DOT 5.1 more difficult to bleed than a DOT 3 or 4? Is the fluid more prone to trapping small air bubbles?
Yes, the bubbles tend to "cling" to the silicone fluid.
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Old 08-17-2015, 02:32 PM   #13
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DOT 5 is silicon, but DOT 5.1 is glycol based....
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/brake-fluid

Last edited by Jae; 08-17-2015 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 08-17-2015, 03:46 PM   #14
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Yep, got my numbers mixed.
That said, I still prefer the Motul RBF.
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Old 08-18-2015, 09:36 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Yep, got my numbers mixed.
That said, I still prefer the Motul RBF.
Ok, having no experience with either DOT 5 or 5.1, I didn't know if maybe there was something different about the formulation with 5.1 that even being glycol based would make it more difficult.
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Old 08-18-2015, 02:01 PM   #16
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