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Old 07-24-2015, 06:37 PM   #61
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Old 07-24-2015, 06:37 PM   #62
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Yup, who expects vehicles to actually use driveways?
Or the fact that the front brakes on you car wear faster that the rear.
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Old 07-24-2015, 06:39 PM   #63
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For the nerds - http://www.pcbrakeinc.com/epub/aiqwi...08mcbrakes.pdf -
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Old 07-24-2015, 06:43 PM   #64
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A Big Dog like this?

Ridgeback 1

Braking force is relative to traction. Do you honestly think a tire you could mount on a bicycle is going to have enough traction to quickly stop a 600+ lb bike plus a rider?
Yeah a big lIke that. And yes the front brake does the work, the tire keeps traction just fine for the big bike and the rider...

Front brakes do the work!!

Last edited by rccarlson22; 07-24-2015 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 07-24-2015, 06:46 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Repth View Post
What do you even mean by "exhibit torque from the rake angle in the forks"? That statement doesn't make grammatical sense. It all depends on where the center of mass is located and how heavy it is, how quickly it's decelerating, etc. Assuming the center of mass is closer to the rear wheel than the front, the rear brake will be far more effective at lower levels of deceleration when there is/would be virtually no loading of the front forks. You do what you're comfortable with, by all means.
The torque the bike exhibits is caused by the rake angle. Like you said, under perfect conditions you won't have that effect but bc the forks are angled forward, they compress upon braking. Is that better?
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Old 07-24-2015, 06:48 PM   #66
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Or the fact that the front brakes on you car wear faster that the rear.
I was starting to think people on a motorcycle forum didn't know about motorcycles
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Old 07-24-2015, 06:51 PM   #67
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The torque the bike exhibits is caused by the rake angle. Like you said, under perfect conditions you won't have that effect but bc the forks are angled forward, they compress upon braking. Is that better?
No, because it is untrue. The torque acting on the bike caused by the height of the CoM has nothing to do with rake angle. The rake angle has something to do with how the shift in loading is transferred to the ground, and the tendency of the bike to actually rotate, sure. But it has nothing to do with how much torque is actually resulting from the decel. Which is what I'm talking about--lower CoM results in lower load shift.
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Old 07-24-2015, 06:52 PM   #68
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Old 07-24-2015, 06:55 PM   #69
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Cool article. I like his analysis a lot. Interesting to check out the theoretical and real-world maximum values of decel... Check of page 13 if you want to be surprised.

At any rate, the point that I've been making is that lower CoM results in lower load transfer to the front. In case anyone was wondering, you can see how clear this is in the first two equations listed in the article. Go figure that a lower CoM causes less load shift--exactly what I was saying. Take notice of the part where a neutral CoM results in no load transfer at all.

But hey, I guess I still don't get it because I don't have like 12 books that are almost (but not) relevant to this particular point of contention.
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Old 07-24-2015, 06:58 PM   #70
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Old 07-24-2015, 07:01 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Repth View Post
No, because it is untrue. The torque acting on the bike caused by the height of the CoM has nothing to do with rake angle. The rake angle has something to do with how the shift in loading is transferred to the ground, and the tendency of the bike to actually rotate, sure. But it has nothing to do with how much torque is actually resulting from the decel. Which is what I'm talking about--lower CoM results in lower load shift.

You're misunderstanding me....

Bottom line, your front brakes do the work. You are just arguing that different weight distributions make for different braking characteristics, and you're right I wasn't disputing that. But if you think you're rear brakes work better good luck with that don't fishtail too much
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Old 07-24-2015, 07:04 PM   #72
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You're misunderstanding me....

Bottom line, your front brakes do the work. You are just arguing that different weight distributions make for different braking characteristics, and you're right I wasn't disputing that. But if you think you're rear brakes work better good luck with that don't fishtail too much
Which brakes work better if a function so many things and the easiest to visualize is CoM.
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Old 07-24-2015, 07:06 PM   #73
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Which brakes work better if a function so many things and the easiest to visualize is CoM.
^^^this is poor grammar
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Old 07-24-2015, 07:10 PM   #74
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Repth, without all those fancy words, can you explain to a dummy like me how front brakes aren't the obvious choice in emergency braking? Even cars are designed to use more front than rear...
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Old 07-24-2015, 07:14 PM   #75
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Repth, without all those fancy words, can you explain to a dummy like me how front brakes aren't the obvious choice in emergency braking? Even cars are designed to use more front than rear...
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that for some bike geometries you can wind up with more stopping power in the rear. Those geometries are ones where the center of mass is low and toward the rear.
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Old 07-24-2015, 08:03 PM   #76
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Quote:
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That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that for some bike geometries you can wind up with more stopping power in the rear. Those geometries are ones where the center of mass is low and toward the rear.
Which bikes works better if the function is easiest to visualize the CoM at top dead center deducting the force of the jedi from rear powers
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Old 07-24-2015, 08:18 PM   #77
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Which bikes works better if the function is easiest to visualize the CoM at top dead center deducting the force of the jedi from rear powers
There is not a motorcycle made that brakes well with rear brakes only. As soon as braking begins the center of gravity will shift forward unloading the rear wheel. Rear braking only will increase your stopping distance by more than 40 feet all else being the same. I find it hard to believe that motorcyclists with all of this experience would even buy into this .
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Old 07-24-2015, 08:27 PM   #78
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I thought the motorcycle manufacturers put abs on bikes for dummy's who don't know how to use the front and rear brakes together to make an emergency stop without totally themselves up endoing and face planting into the pavement

I say it let them go and let inertia take its course on those who don't understand it
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Old 07-24-2015, 08:43 PM   #79
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Since all motorcycle braking principles are the same, dirt bikes should be using majority front brakes, right?
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Old 07-24-2015, 08:51 PM   #80
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Ha ha ha ha.
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