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Old 07-16-2015, 12:41 AM   #61
proasian3
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CHL carrier or not you use a gun as an absolute last resort. We're talking about someone's life here
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Old 07-16-2015, 08:21 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenW View Post
So my question for the CHL holders. In this situation would you have been justified in shooting the guy? I would think so cause you really don't know his intent. But as shown in the video he was easily taken down and controlled. But what if the rider was carrying legally and shot him? Does it matter that the dude was off his rocker?
Is it legal to pull a gun (pulling is use of force), Yes. Is it legal to shoot, Maybe. Would I have, probably not. Moral of the story, keep your road rage in check, that can get you legally shot in Texas.

From the video it looks pretty clear that the dude meets the "Unlawful use of Force" definition. In which case There may have been something that happened prior to the video that instigated his actions. In which case "Lawful use of deadly force" becomes "Unlawful". Relevant Texas statutes below.

Quote:
PC §9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified
in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section
9.31; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is
immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful
deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other’s imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping,
murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated
robbery
...
(b) The actor’s belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was
immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is presumed to be
reasonable
if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly
force was used:
...
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove
unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor’s habitation, vehicle, or
place of business or employment
.
Since it was mentioned above.
Quote:
PC §9.31. SELF-DEFENSE. (a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person
is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor
reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor
against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor’s belief
that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is
presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was
used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully
and with force, the actor’s occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business
or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove
unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor’s habitation, vehicle, or
place of business or employment
; or
(C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder,
sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C
misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the
time the force was used.

Last edited by Flynjay; 07-16-2015 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 07-16-2015, 08:25 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proasian3 View Post
CHL carrier or not you use a gun as an absolute last resort. We're talking about someone's life here
We're overcrowded if you don't know how to keep your hands to yourself or act like a civilized person.

bye bye
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Old 07-16-2015, 09:24 AM   #64
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Old 07-16-2015, 09:53 AM   #65
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Old 07-16-2015, 10:17 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudo View Post
The "(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used" part is questionable. Since ANYTHING can provoke someone. In this case, it was simply someone lane splitting. Is there a definition on what is considered provocation? Would looking at someone wrong be considered as provocation?
I'd be curious to get wakjum's take on this. "Common sense" is saying to me that provocation would be initiating the physical confrontation, but I also think you're right, in that people will sometimes take anything as a provocation (like simply riding around a car at a light).

If that's really all the rider did, I've got to admit I've done that several times when a car is stopped 2 car lengths behind the white line. Just never had someone get out and try to knock me off my bike for it.
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Old 07-16-2015, 11:07 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudo View Post
The "(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used" part is questionable. Since ANYTHING can provoke someone. In this case, it was simply someone lane splitting. Is there a definition on what is considered provocation? Would looking at someone wrong be considered as provocation?
I only stated it because my experience has shown that road rage incidents usually cover long distances. If the biker was baiting, blocking, brake checking, ect. the car for miles; that could be argued as provocation. Of course that would have to be proven with witnesses and such.
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Old 07-16-2015, 01:10 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by buellfan1 View Post
It's possible I would have pulled. Doesn't mean I would pull the trigger.
I just moved to TX, haven't changed my CWP or looked into the laws yet here. But in FL, you CANNOT pull the gun if you're not going to use it. There's no such thing as pulling the gun to try and de-escalate, that's just called brandishing. You only pull if you're going to fire.
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Old 07-16-2015, 01:23 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wh!plash View Post
I just moved to TX, haven't changed my CWP or looked into the laws yet here. But in FL, you CANNOT pull the gun if you're not going to use it. There's no such thing as pulling the gun to try and de-escalate, that's just called brandishing. You only pull if you're going to fire.
Not really. Brandishing is more of oh look what I have don't with me kind of . My dad has pulled guns on robbers and held them until the cops come. Brandishing is more of threatening people and waving a gun or weapon around in an unsafe manner. If someone is attacking you and I pull a gun and he backs down and or runs off then I'm not going to pull the trigger. Simple as that. why would I get a ticket for deciding not to kill a guy once a situation was handled.

Last edited by 01ls1ws6; 07-16-2015 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 07-16-2015, 02:30 PM   #70
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Brandishing or not, there is no need to present a firearm unless one intends to use it. Now if in the process of making ready to shoot, the thread ceases to exist or is greatly diminished, then sure... you may or may not fire.
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Old 07-18-2015, 08:30 AM   #71
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I don't know that the old guy was necessarily "under the influence" of anything, however, the bulging eyes and excessive aggression may be indicative of hypo-/hyperthyroidism. If that's the case, his adrenaline and testosterone levels are most likely unstable and his actions... well, they don't "make sense," but at least there's an explanation. I mean, he's on his back, pinned to the ground, with a broken ankle and STILL talking about 'beating (the rider's) ?' Probably off his meds, took too many, or hasn't sought treatment for the condition and his body is completely out of whack.
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Old 07-18-2015, 08:38 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanXJ View Post
blows to the head, neck or spine are considered lethal force in texas.
This fact is always brushed over. It is up to the individual, and this rider was chill, but you cannot go around punching people in the head and not expect retaliation.

I don't see how the old guy didn't get carbon fiber knuckles to the face. If I had him on the ground I would have not been able to resist.
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:32 AM   #73
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Saw this on 9gag and thought I'd share lol
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:43 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01ls1ws6 View Post
Saw this on 9gag and thought I'd share lol


pefect mmmmmy precious the dope fiend
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Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

yeah. I thought it'd be like riding with a condescending rossi.
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:45 AM   #75
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Lol. Love that 9gag!
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Old 07-21-2015, 03:36 PM   #76
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I aspire to be like his girlfriend.
Even after getting pushed she got back in the guys face.
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Old 07-21-2015, 04:31 PM   #77
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I aspire to be like his girlfriend.
Even after getting pushed she got back in the guys face.
That makes no sense. "Hey that guy pushed me but now he is leaving me alone, let's reinvigorate the conflict by getting back in his face!"
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Old 07-21-2015, 04:36 PM   #78
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That makes no sense. "Hey that guy pushed me but now he is leaving me alone, let's reinvigorate the conflict by getting back in his face!"
I think she was trying to protect her he because he acted like a she.
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Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

yeah. I thought it'd be like riding with a condescending rossi.
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Old 07-22-2015, 07:54 AM   #79
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Quote:
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I aspire to be like his girlfriend.
Even after getting pushed she got back in the guys face.
So you aspire to be like almost every other woman in the world Women can escalate almost any situation then complain when it gets physical lol
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Old 07-23-2015, 12:07 PM   #80
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Quote:
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There is really no need to get violent. Restrain the person until cops arrive and press charges. Im sure most members here can beat this old man up, but not many can do what this rider did

Totally agree with most posts up to this one :
When you swing first your asking for it. And some people only learn one way. A good whooping is a sure method of teaching, no matter how stubborn they may be.

Although I may have been able to keep my composure after he hit me, but after pushing the woman I'd have lost it. And a good helmet to headbutt followed up by some plastic knuckle sandwiches would have made him think long and hard before the next time.
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Last edited by The BeastMaster; 07-23-2015 at 12:10 PM.
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