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Old 07-15-2015, 05:40 AM   #41
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This old man was definitely under the influence of something. I'm impressed and happy that the rider showed such restraint and composure. It's easier to lose your temper and inflict violence on another person. True power is having the ability and justification to really hurt someone, yet choosing not to. This rider is a role model.
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Old 07-15-2015, 11:12 AM   #42
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I'm impressed with his retaint Not sure what I would have done. But I probly wouldn't have showed that much restaint
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Old 07-15-2015, 01:32 PM   #43
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So my question for the CHL holders. In this situation would you have been justified in shooting the guy? I would think so cause you really don't know his intent. But as shown in the video he was easily taken down and controlled. But what if the rider was carrying legally and shot him? Does it matter that the dude was off his rocker?
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Old 07-15-2015, 01:38 PM   #44
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So my question for the CHL holders. In this situation would you have been justified in shooting the guy? I would think so cause you really don't know his intent. But as shown in the video he was easily taken down and controlled. But what if the rider was carrying legally and shot him? Does it matter that the dude was off his rocker?
I wouldn't have shot him. I would have had to "fear for my life" before doing that.. imo... and in this video, the rider obviously had the upper hand in strength, patience, and in keeping his cool.
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Old 07-15-2015, 02:05 PM   #45
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So my question for the CHL holders. In this situation would you have been justified in shooting the guy? I would think so cause you really don't know his intent. But as shown in the video he was easily taken down and controlled. But what if the rider was carrying legally and shot him? Does it matter that the dude was off his rocker?
Holy , it's terrifying to me that someone would even ask this question. No you can't shoot him for that.
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Old 07-15-2015, 02:38 PM   #46
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Holy , it's terrifying to me that someone would even ask this question. No you can't shoot him for that.
Why not? he's attacking me and my girl. I'm not saying it's worth killing someone over but seriously why not? What if he wasn't there and it was only the female rider? Dude was bat crazy and is attacking you. You have no clue how far he's willing to take it. Is it just road rage or is the guy off his meds and trying to kill you? You can't tell me when my life is in danger and when it isn't. Don't want to get shot, then don't attack anyone or their loved ones..that simple.

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Old 07-15-2015, 02:49 PM   #47
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so many crazies on the road...

Personally, I would have just rode away and hopefully avoided any confrontation by making a quick exit. (As I have done before)

To pull a weapon...
If... I was a small weak girl w/CHL unable to escape by riding away, and getting attacked, I would MAYBE draw down, but even that in itself could be dangerous at such a close range,
but to pull a weapon in this situation, as a "man".. no way.

The rider acted appropriately once the psycho was downed, IMO he could have been brought down with a little more enthusiasm.

Funny how people came to the perp's. aid with blanket and water, and blocking the sun... let him fry...
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Old 07-15-2015, 02:50 PM   #48
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Holy , it's terrifying to me that someone would even ask this question. No you can't shoot him for that.
blows to the head, neck or spine are considered lethal force in texas.

Curious if it counts as a blow to the head when there is a helmet on.

Maybe wakjum will chime in...
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Old 07-15-2015, 02:54 PM   #49
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blows to the head, neck or spine are considered lethal force in texas.

Curious if it counts as a blow to the head when there is a helmet on.

Maybe wakjum will chime in...
Exactly

Half the people in here were talking about head butting him with a helmet. That could kill him especially at his age
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Old 07-15-2015, 02:58 PM   #50
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Really...I think some people shouldn't have CHL's. I'm curious to know if WarrenW has his....if so, and he thinks it was necessary here, he might want to reconsider carrying. I didn't see any lives being threatened in the video I watched. Man up!
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Old 07-15-2015, 02:59 PM   #51
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I was thinking the other way around

rider took a blow to the head or not? Fist did not directly connect with the head, so did he really get hit? If not, then no he had no justification for using lethal force.

If yes, then under the current law he would be justified as far as I know....at least in tejas

I don't think a gun was necessary imo.
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Old 07-15-2015, 03:02 PM   #52
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Really...I think some people shouldn't have CHL's. I'm curious to know if WarrenW has his....if so, and he thinks it was necessary here, he might want to reconsider carrying. I didn't see any lives being threatened in the video I watched. Man up!
It's not a question of morals or your manhood bro. I'm not saying I would have pulled a gun on the old dude. The question was asked if it would have been legal to do so..
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Old 07-15-2015, 03:51 PM   #53
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As my CHL instructor put it, every fight is a gunfight for CHL holder. Not because you're looking to shoot people but because you brought the gun to the fight. It is a matter of personal responsibility for the holder to avoid situations that don't need to be escalated unless absolutely necessary.

If you can control the situation without shooting your weapon, then those options should be pursued first from a moral perspective. However, from a legal perspective those steps can be bypassed if you are legitimately threatened. The burden of proof now lies on the holder to show sufficient evidence to justify his actions, either to law enforcement or later to a jury.

In this situation I don't think I would have been justified in shooting the man. I don't think there was reason to fear for his life based on how it played out in the video. Were the situation different, such as it was at night, riding alone, a female rider, or some other situation, the justification might be allowable. If the man said, "I'm going to kill you," then the situation changes entirely. It comes down to whether the action is considered justifiable by a normal reasonable person.

Now from a personal perspective, I wouldn't choose to engage in close quarters with someone to subdue them while carrying. It then puts the weapon in range of the attacker and becomes a potential liability. If the attacker continued to chase and engage me then I would probably have to draw. However, the best choice is to diffuse the situation without resorting to using a weapon. Legally, you don't have to run or attempt to escape in TX but sometimes it's prudent to do so anyway.
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Old 07-15-2015, 04:43 PM   #54
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I don't think he should have been shot in this case. But wanted to see what CHL thought about it. I have not taken the class yet. So I wanted to hear the opinion from someone who has taken the class. What would be the determining factor. Which slim_grizzy posted.
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Old 07-15-2015, 05:32 PM   #55
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Was he in fear for his life?

I think he was justified, but it'd cost him alot of $

So would it be worth it?
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Old 07-15-2015, 06:36 PM   #56
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Watching with sound that dude played opossum
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Old 07-15-2015, 07:39 PM   #57
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This is all very interesting stuff. I carry. But I ride alone. It's possible I would have pulled. Doesn't mean I would pull the trigger. Somebody comes running up to me at a light ( which has happened) I'm probly gonna pull. Depends on the person and situation. You come running up and hit me. I'm gonna drop my bike and pull. I'm justified at that point. I don't know your intentions,who you are,or what your willing to do. Would I actually shoot? Only and only if I thought my life was in danger. 9 times out of 10. Just the mere presence changes attitudes. But I would've held him till police got there. Unless he got stupid. Just saying. My .02$
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Old 07-15-2015, 08:22 PM   #58
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Old 07-15-2015, 10:37 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slim_grizzy View Post
As my CHL instructor put it, every fight is a gunfight for CHL holder. Not because you're looking to shoot people but because you brought the gun to the fight. It is a matter of personal responsibility for the holder to avoid situations that don't need to be escalated unless absolutely necessary.

If you can control the situation without shooting your weapon, then those options should be pursued first from a moral perspective. However, from a legal perspective those steps can be bypassed if you are legitimately threatened. The burden of proof now lies on the holder to show sufficient evidence to justify his actions, either to law enforcement or later to a jury.

In this situation I don't think I would have been justified in shooting the man. I don't think there was reason to fear for his life based on how it played out in the video. Were the situation different, such as it was at night, riding alone, a female rider, or some other situation, the justification might be allowable. If the man said, "I'm going to kill you," then the situation changes entirely. It comes down to whether the action is considered justifiable by a normal reasonable person.

Now from a personal perspective, I wouldn't choose to engage in close quarters with someone to subdue them while carrying. It then puts the weapon in range of the attacker and becomes a potential liability. If the attacker continued to chase and engage me then I would probably have to draw. However, the best choice is to diffuse the situation without resorting to using a weapon. Legally, you don't have to run or attempt to escape in TX but sometimes it's prudent to do so anyway.
I think that was well put.
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Old 07-15-2015, 10:45 PM   #60
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I don't carry when I ride. However, the moment I saw him get out of the car, would have been the moment the kickstand went down, leg swung over the windscreen. He got 2 shoves too far into the girl already. He did a good job maintaining his composure, but I'd like to think I would've taken defensive measures a bit sooner, actually, as soon as my wife or passenger got off the bike.
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