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Old 06-30-2015, 10:44 PM   #1
GAU-8
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Can cold gas increase performance, like cold air does?

Cold air increases engine performance. What about cold gasoline?

Although i just had this idea...apparently im not the first. Limited return search results. So far, modern techniques were just "temporary" experimental tests, ( tank reaches ambient temps) and older techniques (racing) were either very rudimentary, temporary gains, or too heavy/complex.

Im curious about some of you older auto racers knowledge. A few articles mention little gains, dyno wise, but seat of pants says different story.

Any of ya'll messed with this, or want to do an experiment?
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:31 PM   #2
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Chilling gas makes it more dense. So yes. Mo powah. Nothing new. Racers have been doing it for decades
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Old 07-01-2015, 01:52 AM   #3
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Yeah, had a buddy with a blower and a fuel line chiller, but he also had an icebox after cooler and ran meth when he hit wot. I don't know real world gains, but it always seemed my 460ci ran like a beast when I had cold fuel. I haven't noticed that in any of my cars of late though.
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Old 07-01-2015, 08:32 AM   #4
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Cold fuel doesn't necessarily mean more power although it could I guess on some molecular level. The big thing is the effect on the oxygen being drawn into the engine. A colder charge means denser air. Denser air means more oxygen which means you can run more fuel. Everyone thinks that increasing air flow equals more power. it does but that is because you can introduce more fuel. Air is not "explosive" fuel is. More fuel equals bigger boom so to speak. This is the same Idea behind Nitrous. Nitrous provides and increase in oxygen in addition to "chilling/cooling" the charge allowing for a increase in fuel.

I'm not saying cooling the fuel doesn't have positive effect, however I have yet to see the fastest guys in the country running elaborate chilling units on the fuel side.
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Old 07-01-2015, 09:10 AM   #5
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As far as I understand it, whether you add the same amount of gasoline but at a colder temperature or simply increase the flow rate, all you're really doing is increasing the concentration of gasoline in the AF mixture. Gasoline flow rate is rarely the limiting factor, though--that would be oxygen flow rate. So you're probably not doing yourself any good by chilling your gasoline other than decreasing the volume marginally for the same amount of potential energy (allowing you to carry more fuel).
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Old 07-01-2015, 10:53 AM   #6
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Makes sense. Basically fuel is the constant, air is the variable. Hope i'm saying that correctly.

Oxygen feeds the fire. Not the other way round. Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:00 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAU-8 View Post
Makes sense. Basically fuel is the constant, air is the variable. Hope i'm saying that correctly.

Oxygen feeds the fire. Not the other way round. Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
Yeah, I think you have the right idea. It's just rare that fuel is the bottleneck. That's why you see people strapping turbo and superchargers (that cost $5k+) to their car. Increased air flow. True many of them end up getting high flow fuel injectors, but that's a very easy fix compared to the thousands they just spent trying simply to ram more air into their intake. I can go out to my car right now and add more fuel all across the rpm range and all it will do is dump partially unburnt fuel out the headers. What I can't do is go out and change a setting that puts more air in.
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Old 07-01-2015, 12:38 PM   #8
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Another thing to think about, in general, gasses are going to be much more compressible than a liquid. That's pretty much the basis behind hydraulic systems. A backhoe arm works off the fact that liquids really don't want to be be compressed.

Remember the term stoichiometry from chemistry class? Any time you have a reaction and a chemical change, there's a certain ratio between the components that needs to happen, otherwise you have left-over. Gasoline and air have a perfect ratio so that when it burns, all the gas is burned and all the air is consumed. This maximum efficiency.

If you want to add more gas, you need to add more air also. Just so happens that one way to get more air molecules into that chamber is by compressing it (which is what you're doing with a turbo, using an air compressor to put more air than it would normally or naturally take).
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Old 07-01-2015, 12:47 PM   #9
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Sorry, somebody walked up to my desk at work, submitted what I wrote so far.

The stoichiometric ratio for gasoline and air is roughly 15:1. Think about that for a sec, and what it looks like inside a fixed volume of space, such as in the cylinder of your engine, considering how compressible a liquid is vs a gas.
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Old 07-01-2015, 01:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon View Post
Nitrous provides and increase in oxygen in addition to "chilling/cooling" the charge allowing for a increase in fuel.
Just to add to this. Normal "air" that you breath or that goes into an engine is about 21% oxygen. When nitrous oxide breaks down, it leaves you with 33% oxygen. Combined with the chilling effect you get, you get a greater amount of actual oxygen for the same volume of "air" in your chamber.
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAU-8 View Post
Cold air increases engine performance. What about cold gasoline?

To put it simply.....and assuming you're starting with optimum jetting (A/F ratio):

Cold air increases engine performance only if you add more fuel to maintain the optimum A/F.

Cold gas increases engine performance only if you add more air to maintain the optimum A/F.
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