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Old 04-20-2015, 03:52 PM   #1
Classax
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MSRH strategies

Hey guys although I'm still a level 1 type rider, I'm looking to improve all the time, I have a couple questions. It seems like when I'm being towed I can get down under 2 minutes but on my own I can't get anywhere near it. Other than just growing a pair twisting the throttle more I had some questioins. I know everyone is different, I just wanted to get some consensus and a few other options to try. Right now I'm really focused on good lines and good corner entry and exit than out right straight line speeds.


so some of my questions are?

Where are you guys getting to full throttle coming out of the Bus Stop?
Where do you guys typically get on the brakes going into the sweeper before diamonds edge?
Where do you guys typically get on the brakes heading into the launch?
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Old 04-20-2015, 04:00 PM   #2
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Old 04-20-2015, 04:38 PM   #3
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Your times are low to mid level 2 I'd say...

Smooth is fast.
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Old 04-20-2015, 04:44 PM   #4
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Where are you guys getting to full throttle coming out of the Bus Stop?

About halfway around the sweeper and I shift shortly past the apex. I used to short shift that corner and since that is a throttle control corner, the short shift shouldnt effect your times too much.

Where do you guys typically get on the brakes going into the sweeper before diamonds edge?

I slightly touch the brakes (really not much pressure at all) and drop a gear and use some engine braking a couple hundred feet before turn in.. The slight pressure on the front brakes will keep your suspension settled over the bumpy area near the apex. My actual braking point is past the sweeper and I will drop 2 more gears at that point.

Where do you guys typically get on the brakes heading into the launch?

A few feet past the cut through.



Now with all this being said, don't go out and try this. Remember to use baby steps and you will get there.
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Old 04-20-2015, 04:45 PM   #5
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More riding time... it will come...
Do you have your bike tuned for your self? by whom?
Quote:
It seems like when I'm being towed I can get down under 2 minutes but on my own I can't get anywhere near it. Do you know at "all times" where you are on the track when riding?
Where are you guys getting to full throttle coming out of the Bus Stop?
On my 250 yes but on the 600cc its a nice controlled roll on the throttle.
Where do you guys typically get on the brakes going into the sweeper before diamonds edge?
On the 600 I'm in 5th and I shift (GP) one up before the sweeper no breaks back on the throttle and between the sweeper and diamonds edge I do all the breaking and shift another 2 gears up with trail breaking all the way in to the turn.
Where do you guys typically get on the brakes heading into the launch?
When the bike start climbing and 1 shift up and sometimes 2. The second shift if don't happened before the launch it will happen in between the launch and the left turn.

If I would start my track hobby thing all over I would start on the 250 and than go up from there. There is a lot of logic and they say " it's a lot more fun making a slow bike goes fast than a riding a fast bike but going slow"
I do run a 2 minutes on my 250 on MSHR but it did not happened over night. Breaking late and getting back on the throttle and being smooth hitting the apex every time takes a lot of practice, so take your time and have fun. You are doing good
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Old 04-20-2015, 04:49 PM   #6
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Everyone is going to be different as in where they're getting on/off the gas, where they're braking and so on.

Line choice is key. Period. Keep working on your lines and the speed will come. Start looking for stuff on the track or even off and use those as brake markers. As you become more comfortable, start moving them a little deeper and deeper.

Same thing for getting on the gas, just you don't need markers. Just start rolling on the throttle a little sooner & sooner. You'll be surprised once you add that up in all the corners, how much time you can make up.

Again, line choice is everything. It makes the track flow and makes it easier to go faster. If you start finding yourself off the line, slow down and get back on it.

Goodluck!
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Old 04-20-2015, 04:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanXJ View Post
CW or CCW
Clockwise...
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Old 04-20-2015, 05:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod View Post
More riding time... it will come...
Do you have your bike tuned for your self? by whom?
Yea I have the bike set up for my weight. I had the guys at HOP set it up initially and even had Whoopie take a look at it. In the end I wound up dialing it in myself and it seems to work.

Seems like nothing replaces seat time.
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:07 PM   #9
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Not nearly at level as some above, but something that helped me was on one of first track days with Buck at MSRH, in the noob group he had us go around without using the brakes. Just downshifting and engine bracking and not really more than 3rd or 4th gear as a result.

It allowed to focus on the corner ahead and carrying speed into and through the corners. In hindsight it could help to also develop good markers for yourself as you'd have more time to do so and you'd be less dependent on others leading the way. Doing this I got comfy carrying speed into diamonds edge and over and through the launch, later it made it much easier to do so and run a comfortable two min smooth pace.

I know it sounds like a step back, but it may be worth a try. Just try one session you might be surprised.
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninenine View Post
Everyone is going to be different as in where they're getting on/off the gas, where they're braking and so on.

Line choice is key. Period. Keep working on your lines and the speed will come. Start looking for stuff on the track or even off and use those as brake markers. As you become more comfortable, start moving them a little deeper and deeper.

Same thing for getting on the gas, just you don't need markers. Just start rolling on the throttle a little sooner & sooner. You'll be surprised once you add that up in all the corners, how much time you can make up.

Again, line choice is everything. It makes the track flow and makes it easier to go faster. If you start finding yourself off the line, slow down and get back on it.

Goodluck!
This is good, sound advice, read it over and over again.
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Old 04-20-2015, 08:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deano3090 View Post
Where are you guys getting to full throttle coming out of the Bus Stop?

About halfway around the sweeper and I shift shortly past the apex. I used to short shift that corner and since that is a throttle control corner, the short shift shouldnt effect your times too much.

Where do you guys typically get on the brakes going into the sweeper before diamonds edge?

I slightly touch the brakes (really not much pressure at all) and drop a gear and use some engine braking a couple hundred feet before turn in.. The slight pressure on the front brakes will keep your suspension settled over the bumpy area near the apex. My actual braking point is past the sweeper and I will drop 2 more gears at that point.

Where do you guys typically get on the brakes heading into the launch?

A few feet past the cut through.



Now with all this being said, don't go out and try this. Remember to use baby steps and you will get there.
I don't downshift going into the sweeper before diamonds edge, I just tap the front brakes a little to settle the front down a little and tip in. I do this on a 600 and a 1000. You scrub more speed than you need to by down shifting, or at least I did. This is for deano. For the op. Just keep doing what your Doing. A smaller bike wouldn't hurt for learning though. That beast you are on is a hand full. I do love a twin though.
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Old 04-20-2015, 08:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ek View Post
A smaller bike wouldn't hurt for learning though. That beast you are on is a hand full. I do love a twin though.
Which is why despite the lap times I consider myself a level 1 rider.

Strangely I find it FAR easier to ride than the Diavel and 636 I had before. I'm nearly 6'4 and 245lbs and I could never seem to get the comfortable enough on the 636 to focus on riding, worse yet getting the suspension dialed in just never seemed to work me. The 636 was harsh and sluggish by comparison. The EBR is actually quite roomy and the chassis kind of melts away under me so I can concentrate on being smooth, which I hear is the key to being fast.
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Old 04-21-2015, 11:56 AM   #13
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ride at 90% of your abilities or less at all times so that you can use the other 10% to pay attention to what you're actually doing, not to mention pay attention to the rpm's, feel the tires gripping the track, feel the suspension traveling up or down, feel the brake pads biting on the rotor (through the lever), line selection, markers, etc..

there's a lot more going on than just circulating the track out. those are the guys/gals that usually end up on their . also the people eating pavement, dead grass, and dirt were more than likely riding beyond their abilities. when you ride 100% you leave no room for error. if you want to get fast, just make sure everytime you go out on the track you are focused on improving. if you're running slower lap times or with no improvement end the session, go back in and gather yourself, and try again next session. if not, you're just wasting energy and wearing down your equipment..... to go slower.

Have fun, be safe, and eat your wheaties.
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Old 04-21-2015, 12:09 PM   #14
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oh yeah.. seat time seat time and more seat time.

learn to slow down your environment... you'll train your mind and your eyes to adjust to the faster speeds. basically as you approach corners even at 100 mph, your eyes and your mind feel like you're coming in at 10 mph, that way you can learn to spot more and more reference points and you'll start improving faster. that comes with seat time.
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Old 04-21-2015, 12:53 PM   #15
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It's more a feeling, also I spend a lot of time watching my videos, watching were I get passed, and why??? I have the biggest issue with getting crossed up leaning one way and my head the other. This unsettles the bike and balance. I have started working on body and head positioning and looking thru to my next corner and being conscious of what my body is doing. With proper body position it will start going deeper and faster in and out. You have to build confidence in yourself and the bike to get faster. Slow down take slow laps working on line and body, slowly build speed up as your rhythm feels solid, take your time and build up. Like many here said everyone is different on entry, braking, shifting, and lines. No braking drills are great in helping figure your comfort level for engine braking, and late turn in, and acceleration out of corners. But this is done slower and builds your confidence and make sure your mind is also on body and head position. Good luck, it will come if you practice and keep with a he basics you learn from n class.
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Old 04-21-2015, 03:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
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On the 600 I'm in 5th and I shift (GP) one up
Dude, it doesn't matter if you're GP or standard, "up" is a numerically higher gear. It has nothing to do with the way you, personally, mechanically engage the shifter. You DOWNshift before the kink. To say anything else just because you use GP shift is going to confuse everyone.
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Old 04-21-2015, 03:47 PM   #17
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I grit my teeth, hold the throttle wide open and when I see THEN I brake.
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Old 04-21-2015, 03:58 PM   #18
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Didn't read all the comments. However, my .02 is lose the big bike. Buy a built 250 or 650. Learn to ride. You probably won't want to put the 1190 on the track again. If you do, it will be in one piece.

Now, if someone had of told me this 20 years ago......
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Old 04-21-2015, 04:37 PM   #19
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I try going full gas for as long as possible.
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Old 04-21-2015, 04:46 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Dude, it doesn't matter if you're GP or standard, "up" is a numerically higher gear. It has nothing to do with the way you, personally, mechanically engage the shifter. You DOWNshift before the kink. To say anything else just because you use GP shift is going to confuse everyone.
confused I'm now... thanks for nothing...

The confusion... that's who you are or what you are?

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