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Old 11-10-2015, 06:08 PM   #861
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:20 AM   #862
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Right... where the main strategy is... unsettle your opponent by inappropriately touching him until he lets you have your way.
That works for you?
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:22 AM   #863
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Valentino Rossi was quick to point the finger at Marc Marquez for his defeat in the MotoGP title decider at Valencia. But the Italian simply wasn't quick enough when it mattered most, argues Jamie Klein.

After Jorge Lorenzo took the chequered flag at Valencia to seal his fifth world title, I had hoped that Valentino Rossi would be gracious in defeat, and admit that ultimately the faster rider won the day.

Far from doing that, Rossi chose instead to double down on the conspiracy theory he concocted at Sepang: that he was denied the crown by Marc Marquez choice to actively favour Lorenzo’s title bid.

So the theory goes, Marquez had the pace to win at Valencia, but instead chose to act as Lorenzo’s “bodyguard”, making no attempt to pass and even protecting his compatriot from Dani Pedrosa’s attack in the final stages of the race.

However, much like Rossi's claims of Marquez riding to help Lorenzo at Phillip Island, this seems highly doubtful, overlooking the fact that Marquez exerted huge pressure on Lorenzo by sticking to the Yamaha rider's rear wheel for the duration of the race.

Had Lorenzo securing the title been Marquez's goal, the 22-year-old could have done so more easily by circulating some way behind Lorenzo and defending from Pedrosa – or even let his teammate by, knowing that even if Pedrosa were to go on to win, second would still be enough for Lorenzo.

Indeed, the race was somewhat reminiscent of Indianapolis, where Marquez tailed Lorenzo for much of the distance before finally making his move with three laps to go.

But, there was only one corner at Valencia where Marquez was really ever in a position to even attempt to make a move on Lorenzo, the uphill left-hander at Turn 6, and Pedrosa's arrival to the party on the penultimate lap forced him to switch his focus from attack to defence.

Lacking the pace

Ultimately, only Marquez himself truly knows what was going through his mind while he was shadowing Lorenzo, but whether or not he gave his all to win the race rather misses the point.

Rossi arrived at Valencia with his fate still his hands – if Lorenzo won, he had to finish second. Even though starting from the back of the grid made that task incredibly difficult; beating both Marquez and Pedrosa was always going to be a long shot.

His rise from 25th on the grid to fourth place was certainly a masterclass in overtaking, but Rossi’s race pace thereafter was not good enough to finish any higher than fourth – and that would still have been the case no matter where he started the race from.

The truth is, no matter what Rossi and his army of supporters choose to believe, is that he wasn’t fast enough – not just at Valencia, but during 2015 in general.

After Phillip Island, sensing what could well be last opportunity to win was on the verge of slipping through his fingers, Rossi panicked – hence that infamous Thursday press conference at Sepang, where Marquez was first accused of helping Lorenzo.

By that stage, the 36-year-old knew that he would need Marquez’s help in denying Lorenzo valuable points to be sure of winning the title, but quite how he could expect Marquez to do his job for him after what happened between the duo at Sepang remains a mystery.

What’s more, the abuse hurled in Marquez’s direction in the aftermath of the Sepang controversy will surely have made the outgoing champion think twice before attacking Lorenzo.

Imagine if Marquez had made a lunge at Lorenzo – and ended up taking out his compatriot in the process. Would the chorus of Rossi fans accuse Marquez of ‘interfering’ with the course of the championship?

Of course not – they would be cheering from the rafters, safe in the knowledge that their man would be crowned world champion for the 10th time.

Title not just lost at Valencia

Instead, Marquez has been the target of the disillusioned fans’ ire, but they choose to ignore the inconvenient fact that Rossi lost the title by five points, and that points are awarded in 18 races held across the year.

Had Rossi held Pedrosa at bay for second at Aragon, and beaten Iannone to third at Phillip Island – to name two recent examples where Rossi was outgunned in a straight fight for position – fourth place at Valencia would have been good enough for the title. But he didn’t, so it wasn’t.

None of this is to detract from what an incredible season Rossi has enjoyed in 2015, nor from the increasingly strong claim the Italian has on being the best rider in Grand Prix motorcycle racing history.

And yet, when push came to shove, the faster rider won out. Rossi simply wasn’t quick enough on a sufficient number of occasions during the season to merit the championship.

It really is as simple as that, as much as Rossi and his fans would prefer to blame Marquez and the ‘Spanish mafia’ for his defeat.

http://www.motorsport.com/motogp/new...tle-rossi-did/
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Old 11-11-2015, 10:08 AM   #864
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Like I said Rossi makes a strong case for the GOAT in terms of MotoGP RACERS he just didn't get it done.

I'm personally more a fan of JL riding style and I believe the marriage of his approach to riding, his riding style and the current iteration of the yamaha may be the best combination of all time. That said JL isn't nearly as good in field as he is from the front. He rides amazing but he's not one of the best racers.


I like watching MM do the seemingly impossible on a MotoGP bike but he makes it a lost harder than it has to be a lot of times and more over he initiates "rubbing" when there often times is no need for it. This puts other riders on edge and less apt to attack for a pass on him or just try to get clear of him so they can get some racing room and concentrate. Its part of his game.

I think the best over all rider won, but the best racer could have just as easily won if not for having to deal with a petulant MM. I'm ready for 2016
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:27 PM   #865
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Like I said Rossi makes a strong case for the GOAT in terms of MotoGP RACERS he just didn't get it done.

I'm personally more a fan of JL riding style and I believe the marriage of his approach to riding, his riding style and the current iteration of the yamaha may be the best combination of all time. That said JL isn't nearly as good in field as he is from the front. He rides amazing but he's not one of the best racers.


I like watching MM do the seemingly impossible on a MotoGP bike but he makes it a lost harder than it has to be a lot of times and more over he initiates "rubbing" when there often times is no need for it. This puts other riders on edge and less apt to attack for a pass on him or just try to get clear of him so they can get some racing room and concentrate. Its part of his game.

I think the best over all rider won, but the best racer could have just as easily won if not for having to deal with a petulant MM. I'm ready for 2016
When Italians (Iannone) make contact, it's just racing

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Old 11-11-2015, 09:55 PM   #866
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Old 11-12-2015, 01:06 AM   #867
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Old 11-12-2015, 06:20 AM   #868
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^^^and since we're reviewing definitions, THIS SH*T... is NOT racing...
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Old 11-12-2015, 08:28 AM   #869
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When Italians (Iannone) make contact, it's just racing

Unnecessary contact there too. The rider in front has the right of way.
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Old 11-12-2015, 08:30 AM   #870
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Unnecessary contact there too. The rider in front has the right of way.
Exactly, but Italians get an exemption
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Old 11-12-2015, 08:37 AM   #871
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Exactly, but Italians get an exemption
Not from me, or anyone else who enjoys clean racing. I think the point you are missing is the majority of racers may have incidents of contact and a select few use it as a race tactic. MM falls into that latter category.
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Old 11-12-2015, 08:45 AM   #872
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Not from me, or anyone else who enjoys clean racing. I think the point you are missing is the majority of racers may have incidents of contact and a select few use it as a race tactic. MM falls into that latter category.


Dude, Iannone and Rossi both were guilty of that type of passing in that race. It's MotoGP, not a freaking track day. It's been going on for years way before MM moved to MotoGP. It only became an issue this year when VR felt he was being picked on.
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Old 11-12-2015, 09:10 AM   #873
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Dude, Iannone and Rossi both were guilty of that type of passing in that race. It's MotoGP, not a freaking track day. It's been going on for years way before MM moved to MotoGP. It only became an issue this year when VR felt he was being picked on.
I don't deny any of that. Being guilty of occasions vs having it as a major component of your race strategy.
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Old 11-12-2015, 09:52 AM   #874
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I don't deny any of that. Being guilty of occasions vs having it as a major component of your race strategy.
Just because you believe it to be his race strategy doesn't make it fact, just as some corner worker thought you broke the rules in a pass and black flagged you.
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:03 AM   #875
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Just because you believe it to be his race strategy doesn't make it fact, just as some corner worker thought you broke the rules in a pass and black flagged you.
Ok, fair enough. At what point does one begin to say this is not yet another isolated incident, but it is in fact a systematic pattern of behavior? Like I have said repeatedly I admire all those guys as racers of utmost skill. MM is a great rider (despite riding a Honda) who is more aggressive than his peers and sees nothing wrong with banging elbows or fairings for position Moto3 style in the higher stakes MotoGP ranks. Its just how he races. Its that reckless abandon that makes him fun to watch. That said I, prefer riders who race with a cleaner style.
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:04 AM   #876
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Just because you believe it to be his race strategy doesn't make it fact, just as some corner worker thought you broke the rules in a pass and black flagged you.
Ok, fair enough. At what point does one begin to say this is not yet another isolated incident, but it is in fact a systematic pattern of behavior? Like I have said repeatedly I admire all those guys as racers of utmost skill. MM is a great rider (despite riding a Honda) who is more aggressive than his peers and sees nothing wrong with banging elbows or fairings for position Moto3 style in the higher stakes MotoGP ranks. Its just how he races. Its that reckless abandon that makes him fun to watch. That said I, prefer riders who race with a cleaner style.
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:33 AM   #877
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Ok, fair enough. At what point does one begin to say this is not yet another isolated incident, but it is in fact a systematic pattern of behavior? Like I have said repeatedly I admire all those guys as racers of utmost skill. MM is a great rider (despite riding a Honda) who is more aggressive than his peers and sees nothing wrong with banging elbows or fairings for position Moto3 style in the higher stakes MotoGP ranks. Its just how he races. Its that reckless abandon that makes him fun to watch. That said I, prefer riders who race with a cleaner style.
You realize that the 2015 bike has handling issues, right?

Were you about his riding style the previous two years?
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:43 AM   #878
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:45 AM   #879
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They all have "handling issues" at that level.

Whose ? Beside VR or his devout fans, neither of which would be me. Just observations nothing more nothing less. We're still talking about it because it finally affected a race out come and the championship. Its been going on for a decade or more. Stoner wasn't exactly the cleanest passer either as we'll recall.
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:50 AM   #880
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They all have "handling issues" at that level.

Whose ? Beside VR or his devout fans, neither of which would be me. Just observations nothing more nothing less. We're still talking about it because it finally affected a race out come and the championship. Its been going on for a decade or more. Stoner wasn't exactly the cleanest passer either as we'll recall.
Dude, compared to the last two years, the 2015 Honda had issues. You realize first they tried changing the swingarm and then on MM's bike switched back to the 2014 frame.

Thought you were inferring that this was exclusively MM's race strategy. Make up your mind
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