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Old 03-18-2015, 08:46 AM   #1
albertinhouston
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no spark on a old 400 bandit.

Here is what I know so far...
I have no spark from either coil. It has some after market coils on there. the plug wires are literally falling out of the coil. So I know that is problem 1.
I have constant power going to both coils. I'm going to test the coils today.

here is my question.... what tells the coils to make the actual spark? I would think it'll be the ECU but not positive. Meaning... if the coils test good then what will be the next thing to try?
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Old 03-18-2015, 09:38 AM   #2
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The next step would be getting new plug wires or at least figuring out how to make the old ones work better.
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Old 03-18-2015, 09:57 AM   #3
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yeah that's the plan for today.
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Old 03-23-2015, 12:12 PM   #4
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I actually tried setting a COP (coil over plug) setup. I have spark now but I'm not 100% sure I wired it up correctly-more online reading.... in the mean time, carb cleaning for me.
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Old 04-06-2015, 07:02 AM   #5
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For any one with an old bike... I was able to upgrade from old style coils to COP. They key, from what I read, get the Ohm's right. wire them in series.
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Old 04-06-2015, 01:42 PM   #6
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The only thing keeping me from doing the COPs on my Venture is the sensitivity of the computer to resistance. I'll have to use in-line resistors to make them work and due to the age/cost of the computer I'm a little nervous of messing it up. Kind of thinking I want to put together a small circuit board that I'd run the signal wires to/from so that I have a better way to mount the resistors between the computer and COPs... any thoughts on this? I've not seen any available COPs that have the correct resistance in stock form, but I know there are people out there who have done the conversion successfully.

Did you get your spark issue figured out on the 400 then?
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Old 04-06-2015, 01:54 PM   #7
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Yes the COP took care of it.
This was the first time I looked into setting this up. Fortunately for me, there was a guy in England that runs this set up. It was just a matter of duplicating it. From what I found SRAD COP's and r6 COP's were the lowest O.R. coil I found on line. That was what I was thinking I would try if I couldn't find any CBR coils.
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Old 04-06-2015, 02:14 PM   #8
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no spark on a old 400 bandit.

Oh nice. I was thinking about doing the same for my 250 but use some from a zx10.
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Old 04-06-2015, 02:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertinhouston View Post
Yes the COP took care of it.
This was the first time I looked into setting this up. Fortunately for me, there was a guy in England that runs this set up. It was just a matter of duplicating it. From what I found SRAD COP's and r6 COP's were the lowest O.R. coil I found on line. That was what I was thinking I would try if I couldn't find any CBR coils.
Yeah, the guys who have done it successfully on Ventures are more interested in selling you a $300 wiring harness than sharing info on how they made it work safely.

Stock coils seem to have a fairly high primary resistance (3.0 Ohm) and lower resistance COPs (think the ones everyone is using are ~1.4 Ohm) seem to eventually fry the computer.
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Old 04-06-2015, 02:44 PM   #10
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no spark on a old 400 bandit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae View Post
Yeah, the guys who have done it successfully on Ventures are more interested in selling you a $300 wiring harness than sharing info on how they made it work safely.

Stock coils seem to have a fairly high primary resistance (3.0 Ohm) and lower resistance COPs (think the ones everyone is using are ~1.4 Ohm) seem to eventually fry the computer.
I just read that. 3k ohm resistor inline to stick coil for pre 1990 bikes with analog ignitions.

Have anyone you came across a spreadsheet or lists the resistances of various COPs?
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Old 04-06-2015, 04:02 PM   #11
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I remember it being discussed on one of the vmax forums, but it was more in terms of the variability between coils than a comprehensive list. They basically threw out a part number that worked for the first guy and sounds like everyone has just used that since they don't mind just paying for one of the 10 harnesses that gets built every year.

I believe this is the thread where I've found most of my info so far though
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=5427

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=13475

Last edited by Jae; 04-06-2015 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 04-06-2015, 04:07 PM   #12
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Haha, just came across the box with the COPs in it in my closet yesterday, now I'm kind of itching to get this done again. Guess I know what I'll be doing tonight...
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Old 04-06-2015, 04:26 PM   #13
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I didn't find any list like that.
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Old 04-06-2015, 04:26 PM   #14
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did some searching and came onto this.

Pertaining to Kawasakis coil stick size varies for application of course

Quote:
Just a quick FYI,
Thanks to original poster on ZXROA.

The coils that work for the mod must be 5 in. long and have aprox.
resistance of 1.3-1.5 ohms ea., here's some info I got, will update.
These are the p/n's and years that work, any other may not work.

Suzuki GSXR: 1000 (01-07), 750 (01-05), 600 (01-03)
oem p/n 33410-35F10/35F00 (Denso p/n 129700-4400/4150)
4400/1.5 ohms, 4150/1.3 ohms
new aprox. $69

Kawasaki: ZX10/14 (04-07) oem p/n 21171-0005/1.5 ohms
ZX9 (99-03) + ZX12 (03-05) oem p/n 21171-1265/1286
Z1000 (03-07) + Z750 (05-06) 21171-1286
Z1000 denso p/n 129700-4580/1.5 ohms
ZX6 oem p/n 21171-1282/mitsubishi#F6T560
ZX9 denso p/n 129700-3630/1.3 ohms
ZX10 mitsu.#F6T549/560
ZG14/08(Concours) # F6T560
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Old 04-06-2015, 04:28 PM   #15
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I imagine you have to use the sticks off a bike that had a CDI.
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Old 04-08-2015, 07:07 PM   #16
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Old 04-08-2015, 07:33 PM   #17
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Old 04-09-2015, 09:01 AM   #18
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There's a company out there (Ignitech, I think?) that's making a tunable TCI for my bike that's under $300, and would solve the issue. I'm hesitant to tear into the stock unit, if only because they seem to be selling for more than $300. At that point I'd rather go aftermarket and sell the stock unit to fund it.
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Old 04-09-2015, 09:39 AM   #19
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TCI: Learned something new.

http://www.sportdevices.com/rpm_read...DI_and_TCI.htm
http://www.fzronline.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=43&t=2398
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Old 04-09-2015, 10:07 AM   #20
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This is why higher impedance coils are necessary. Several guys on the vmax forum report using the 1.3 ohm COPs for an extended time without negative results, others report blowing the TCI in short-order. Either way, adding a 1 ohm, high-amp inline resistor seems to be the "easy" way out, just need to make sure I can get a good connection.
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