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Old 02-06-2015, 03:17 PM   #1
SideVinder650
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Emergency engine braking

hey guys, engine braking was one topic that we skipped over in the MSF. I havent taken MSF since 2006 but i believe they said for safety reasons we were going to do an exercise that was "similar" to engine braking but not exactly engine braking.

That being said, i am wondering if an acceptable technique to emergency engine braking (when all else fails) if one is going fast in 5th or 6th where dropping 1 gear wouldnt give them enough braking, yet 2 gears would lock the rear wheel...combined with emergency braking technique could one drop 2 gears and repeatedly feather the clutch in and out, not going completely into gear (and locking the wheel)? or do you still run the risk of locking the wheel anyway?

I've always been confused as to whether there were multiple ways to engine brake, in emergency and non emergency situations. or whether if you're going too fast and drop too many gears when releasing the clutch if you'd lock the wheel?

also, if you are going too fast and you drop the bike too many gears and set it in gear does the engine run the risk of blowing or being otherwise damaged? some times while engine braking the engine feels as though its going to drop right out the bike if its done hard enough
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Old 02-06-2015, 03:26 PM   #2
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just drop down a couple gears and feather the clutch. You control how much grip the clutch is having. That way if one gear down is too little and 2 is too much you can modulate the clutch lever to slow down without locking the rear wheel up. Dont forget about your rear brake though. The odds of both failing at once are astronomical. I have never heard of anyone "blowing" their engine due to engine breaking.
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Old 02-06-2015, 03:34 PM   #3
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If it's indeed emergency braking forget shifting, besides there are two many variables between bikes and the speed you might be riding to answer that question. For example, you can do 95mph in first gear on a CBR1000RR, so, if you were cruising at 65 mph you could jump from 6th to 1st, especially if you blip the throttle hard there'd be no lock up with that slipper clutch.

I always downshift through all the gears when I know I'm coming to a stop, but in an emergency I just concentrate on the brakes.
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Old 02-06-2015, 03:42 PM   #4
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Emergency braking goes like this, clutch in, progressive application of both brakes(aka not slamming them on like a light switch.) I wouldn't worry about shifting of the goal was to stop as fast as possible. The rear brake can do anything the engine can.
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Old 02-06-2015, 03:48 PM   #5
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Not sure where you took the MSF class, but either they missed something or you did, but I would HIGHLY recommend taking an ERC as an update.

If you are EMERGENCY braking, then it's: clutch in, progressive squeeze of BOTH brakes (just before lockup) and downshift all the way down to first at the same time (you still need to be in first when you come to stop).

There is NO engine braking during an emergency stop.

And again, this is something they work on during an ERC.

Hope that helps.
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Old 02-06-2015, 03:50 PM   #6
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just my .02 but I would practice emergency breaking WITH the brakes first
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Old 02-06-2015, 04:56 PM   #7
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Emergency braking may have been a poor choice of word, what i'm trying to illustrate is a scenario where your in an emergency braking type situation but coming to a complete stop is not necessary.

For example you're speeding on the highway and ( forbid) you find yourself in a situation where an 18-wheeler is merging into your lane and you're about to rear end and have no "out", something like this, where you have to make a decision and you know for a fact your traveling too fast for your brakes to do the job entirely.

You dont necessarily want to stop, but you're also going very fast, in addition to using the brakes to the best of your ability, do you also want to drop down a few gears and feather the clutch? or maybe go down 1 gear at a time if possible? assuming still, all lanes are full and you have no out, no shoulder, etc.

I didnt take into account that supersports can do 90 in 1st and have slipper clutches, but that does elucidate it for me, I rarely if ever find myself in one of these situations i've just always wondered if engine braking can be done that way if necessary in an emergency type scenario.

Oh also, I took MSF at Mancuso Cross Roads and the full stop 1st gear emergency brake technique is the same one we were taught along with a similar exercise afterwards where we stopped fast down shifted 1 gear then resumed which they said was supposed to simulate engine braking. Yet when i first started riding back in 06 i had realized that you could possibly engine brake harder by dropping a few gears and feathering the clutch, but does this necessarily work better? equal? worse?
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Old 02-06-2015, 06:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SideVinder650 View Post
you know for a fact your traveling too fast for your brakes to do the job entirely.
Your bike must have drum brakes then, but seriously, if you can operate your bike subconsciously it's time for you to get on the track to understand how your brakes work.
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Old 02-06-2015, 06:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
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Your bike must have drum brakes then, but seriously, if you can operate your bike subconsciously it's time for you to get on the track to understand how your brakes work.
Exactly, your rear brake should be able to lock up the rear. Which means the engine can help slow you down anymore than applying your rear brake skillfully.

Quoted bevo because he already dug out the part of your post that I wanted to comment on.
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Old 02-06-2015, 06:51 PM   #10
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Your brain will go into overload trying to modulate the clutch and hammer the brakes in an emergency
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:09 PM   #11
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Don't see the relevance in an emergency. Your brakes don't need the help. , the engine braking seems irrelevant. You can smooth lock the up with either brake
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