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Old 01-01-2015, 01:53 PM   #81
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Quote:
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Too many variables to determine. Tires, bike, track, track temperature, rider & skills...
Correct. Take away all variables and you are testing what exactly? Who can build a chassis that excels in corner speed on a perfectly flat surface, on fresh warm tires, with constant radius, with optimized chassis geometry, on wheels suited for consyant mid corner speed, with maximum rider hanging off. Sure, go build one that is .05g's better than the rest. Guaranteed it will suck everywhere else on the traction curve.

Or, trust lap times on similar hp bikes and trust when experts say one or the other bike has better mid corner as speed.
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Old 01-01-2015, 02:19 PM   #82
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Wrong. Cars outhandle bikes. How else can a stock mazda miata beat a 600 at msrh?
Stock miata's can run 1:33's at msrh? Man I'm slower than a fat kid running the mile.
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Old 01-01-2015, 02:24 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
Correct. Take away all variables and you are testing what exactly? Who can build a chassis that excels in corner speed on a perfectly flat surface, on fresh warm tires, with constant radius, with optimized chassis geometry, on wheels suited for consyant mid corner speed, with maximum rider hanging off. Sure, go build one that is .05g's better than the rest. Guaranteed it will suck everywhere else on the traction curve.

Or, trust lap times on similar hp bikes and trust when experts say one or the other bike has better mid corner as speed.
The test proposed by the OP wasn't to design a bike to pull the most g's but to compare already existing production bikes.

I agree though I generally use lap times as the metric for measuring a bikes performance. What is neat is a few magazines have used gps lap timers to show where the different bikes excel and where they are weak. I saw one comparison between a 1000, 750, and 600 and I enjoyed seeing where time was lost and made up in a lap.
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Old 01-01-2015, 02:38 PM   #84
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Stock miata's can run 1:33's at msr. Man I'm slower than a fat kid running the mile.

Nope. What do you think a stock 600 on oem tires runs at msrh? Or a stck miata?
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Old 01-01-2015, 02:46 PM   #85
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Quote:
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The test proposed by the OP wasn't to design a bike to pull the most g's but to compare already existing production bikes.

I agree though I generally use lap times as the metric for measuring a bikes performance. What is neat is a few magazines have used gps lap timers to show where the different bikes excel and where they are weak. I saw one comparison between a 1000, 750, and 600 and I enjoyed seeing where time was lost and made up in a lap.
Those are my fav tests. Tells us the how and why of fast.

But it is nearly impossible to test what the o.p. proposed without significant test error due to uncontrollable variables. And like my over the top test example shows, what would it prove? 6 bikes, from diff manufacturers, similar weights, same tires, same conditions, same size wheels, same rider? It would probably only tell you which bike has the best maintenance throttle predictacility and which bike the tester had the most confidence (aka familiarity) with. But what would it, absolutely, tell a potential buyer? Next to nothing, so why invest $15 grand in the endeavour?
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Old 01-01-2015, 02:47 PM   #86
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Quote:
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Nope. What do you think a stock 600 on oem tires runs at msrh? Or a stck miata?
You didn't specify stock 600, my bad. I ran a 1:52 on a mostly stock 06 zx636 but on Pirelli slicks. I would assume you could probably run that at least on a show room 600.
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Old 01-01-2015, 02:51 PM   #87
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Maybe I was wrong.... stock 99 miata runs about 1:50.
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Old 01-01-2015, 02:54 PM   #88
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Quote:
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Those are my fav tests. Tells us the how and why of fast.

But it is nearly impossible to test what the o.p. proposed without significant test error due to uncontrollable variables. And like my over the top test example shows, what would it prove? 6 bikes, from diff manufacturers, similar weights, same tires, same conditions, same size wheels, same rider? It would probably only tell you which bike has the best maintenance throttle predictacility and which bike the tester had the most confidence (aka familiarity) with. But what would it, absolutely, tell a potential buyer? Next to nothing, so why invest $15 grand in the endeavour?
Would it really be $15k to add it into a shootout they are already doing? I agree I don't care too much about it because it is just a number.
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Old 01-01-2015, 02:56 PM   #89
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Cool

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Maybe I was wrong.... stock 99 miata runs about 1:50.
That is a 118hp car that won't get anywhere near the speeds a 600 will so the speed has to be made up somewhere.
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Old 01-01-2015, 02:59 PM   #90
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Dunno on cost. I think a 1 time test of bikes from different eras would be enlightening. My benchmark for performance across time is the IOM TT average speed.

Like you said, all just numbers. But very important and real for us motorcycle crazies.
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Old 01-01-2015, 03:03 PM   #91
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I took a handfull of passenger laps in a stock miata recer. Bars, springs, shocks only. Race rubber. We ran 1:43's without ever breaking 100 mph ccw. Ever flown through the keyhole at 75 mph at give or take 2+ g's? It's a game changing difference in corner speed vs any race bike I've ridden at a 1:42 - 1:43 pace (thats allI'm good for)
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Old 01-01-2015, 03:39 PM   #92
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Quote:
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I took a handfull of passenger laps in a stock miata recer. Bars, springs, shocks only. Race rubber. We ran 1:43's without ever breaking 100 mph ccw. Ever flown through the keyhole at 75 mph at give or take 2+ g's? It's a game changing difference in corner speed vs any race bike I've ridden at a 1:42 - 1:43 pace (thats allI'm good for)
Yeah I got a ride in a caterham r500 on race rubber in California and it was insane. Not only could it accelerate like a bat out of but also cornered like a mad man.
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Old 01-02-2015, 10:44 PM   #93
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..
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:52 PM   #94
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That's not the key hole.
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Old 01-03-2015, 12:15 AM   #95
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That's not the key hole.


Ooops.

Metro stops there though.
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Old 01-03-2015, 10:06 AM   #96
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More words don't make you more right.
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Old 01-03-2015, 02:14 PM   #97
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Quote:
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That's not the key hole.
Yeah, late night. Wrong link. Should have been 50 meter radius and at 75 mph the g' are 2.2 so indeed 2+.

key1
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Old 01-03-2015, 03:55 PM   #98
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The point that you are missing is the lateral g's can be COMPUTED using the formulas you've specified. You don't simply hit a lean angle in order to achieve a particular level of lateral acceleration.

Lateral acceleration is the result of a vehicle's speed through a curve. That maximum speed is dependent on the available grip from the road surface, the tires, the suspension, and rider skill. Suspension varies radically from bike to bike. Shocks, spring rates, rake and trail, sprung and unsprung weight. Same is true for a car, except rake and trail. Substitute things like camber, caster, and ackermann.

Those are the factors that dictate speed through a turn (thus lateral acceleration) not some math formula.
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Old 01-04-2015, 03:06 AM   #99
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So according to math and physics, this guy must've been pulling 1.0-1.3g's..



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Old 01-04-2015, 07:45 PM   #100
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Quote:
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Yeah, late night. Wrong link. Should have been 50 meter radius and at 75 mph the g' are 2.2 so indeed 2+.

key1
So what lean angle on a bike corresponds to 2.2 g's?
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