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Old 12-29-2014, 03:58 PM   #21
ArkansasDave
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he isnt gonna get get it!
Nope not unless he convinces sport rider that it would be cool and sell more magazines.
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Old 12-29-2014, 04:13 PM   #22
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You very partially answered his question. He wants a good scientific comparison comparing all the sport bikes. One video from an amature rider on a modified bike hardly fulfills his request. It does give him an idea of where motorcycles are.

My question is why do they have a database and a specific test for car lateral g's and not for motorcycles?

because it is completely subjective and irrelevant.
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Old 12-29-2014, 04:22 PM   #23
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because it is completely subjective and irrelevant.
Accelerometers have opinions? Why do car magazines do it if it's worthless?
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Old 12-29-2014, 04:32 PM   #24
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Who's willing to ride a bike until it begins to slide while being laid over and collect the information? High side or low side anyone?
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Old 12-29-2014, 04:35 PM   #25
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Who's willing to ride a bike until it begins to slide while being laid over and collect the information? High side or low side anyone?
Good point, I doubt the average test rider can get to the absolute limit without crashing.
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Old 12-29-2014, 04:42 PM   #26
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Accelerometers have opinions? Why do car magazines do it if it's worthless?
I'm not going to explain it to you. I've read your posts and you are smart enough to know you are just trolling.

Thanks for playing.
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Old 12-29-2014, 04:47 PM   #27
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I'm not going to explain it to you. I've read your posts and you are smart enough to know you are just trolling.

Thanks for playing.
No, I really didn't know they developed subjective accelerometers.
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Old 12-29-2014, 04:52 PM   #28
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The reason you won't find this data in comparison tests is because the results will be the same for all bikes and a bicycle would be just as good as a MotoGp bike.

The cornering g's for bikes is only depending on lean angle. Specifically the g's are the tangent of the angle taken from the contact patch through the combined rider plus bike center of gravity.

Just to put up some figures;

60 deg = 1.75 g
45 deg = 1 g
27 deg = 0.5 g
10 deg = 0.18 g
5 deg = 0.08 g

For cars the same test is again a measure of the Cg but in relation to track width. A bike is single track vehicle, really just an inverted pendulum, so they are all the same.
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Old 12-29-2014, 05:04 PM   #29
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Just build a WR450F Sumo........the bike has 5 lat. G and the rider is at .25 G
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Old 12-29-2014, 05:30 PM   #30
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Old 12-29-2014, 06:43 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenup283 View Post
The reason you won't find this data in comparison tests is because the results will be the same for all bikes and a bicycle would be just as good as a MotoGp bike.

The cornering g's for bikes is only depending on lean angle. Specifically the g's are the tangent of the angle taken from the contact patch through the combined rider plus bike center of gravity.

Just to put up some figures;

60 deg = 1.75 g
45 deg = 1 g
27 deg = 0.5 g
10 deg = 0.18 g
5 deg = 0.08 g

For cars the same test is again a measure of the Cg but in relation to track width. A bike is single track vehicle, really just an inverted pendulum, so they are all the same.
You think grip has nothing to do with cornering g's? So one could achieve the same lateral g's on ice in comparison to hot pavement?
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Old 12-29-2014, 06:46 PM   #32
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You think grip has nothing to do with cornering g's? So one could achieve the same lateral g's on ice in comparison to hot pavement?
Did you also know that Harley's can pull 1.65 lateral g's at 60 degree lean angle? You know since all bikes including motogp bikes are all the same.

Last edited by ArkansasDave; 12-29-2014 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 12-29-2014, 06:48 PM   #33
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60 degree lean angle. Just think about that for a minute.
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:07 PM   #34
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60 degree lean angle. Just think about that for a minute.
Yeah according to kenup all bikes can generate the same lateral acceleration. So by that logic a Harley can hit 60 degrees, right?

Also kenup in your post you reference the angle between the plane of the contact patch and the center of gravity. Then mention 5 degrees off the ground generates the least lateral acceleration.

I believe what the OP wants the centripital acceleration which would be defined by f/m=v^2/r. That equation uses force provided by friction and mass of the rider and bike, which means they will play a part in the lateral acceleration. The friction force a bike can generate will also be dependant on suspension, tires, and chassis. None of those are the same for any other bike. So no I don't think it will be the same for every two wheeled vehicle as you suggested kenup.
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:07 PM   #35
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Quote:
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You think grip has nothing to do with cornering g's? So one could achieve the same lateral g's on ice in comparison to hot pavement?
Absolutely, if you had spikes in your tires it would be the same g's. But really nobody expects their cars to have the same values on ice as reported in the mags, but yet the tests ae still done. Why? Because they tell you somthing about the car.

With bikes question is really just asking what's the maximum lean angle achievable for a given bike and rider. And this is a very large function of the riders ability, so the data is not useful tool for the consumer as a reflection of the bikes capability.
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:09 PM   #36
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Absolutely, if you had spikes in your tires it would be the same g's. But really nobody expects their cars to have the same values on ice as reported in the mags, but yet the tests ae still done. Why? Because they tell you somthing about the car.

With bikes question is really just asking what's the maximum lean angle achievable for a given bike and rider. And this is a very large function of the riders ability, so the data is not useful tool for the consumer as a reflection of the bikes capability.
Um. So you are saying the data is subjective?

Uh oh. .....
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:12 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenup283 View Post
Absolutely, if you had spikes in your tires it would be the same g's. But really nobody expects their cars to have the same values on ice as reported in the mags, but yet the tests ae still done. Why? Because they tell you somthing about the car.

With bikes question is really just asking what's the maximum lean angle achievable for a given bike and rider. And this is a very large function of the riders ability, so the data is not useful tool for the consumer as a reflection of the bikes capability.
Wow. Lateral g's has nothing to do with grip. You learn something new every day.... From the Internet...
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:16 PM   #38
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Did you also know that Harley's can pull 1.65 lateral g's at 60 degree lean angle? You know since all bikes including motogp bikes are all the same.
If it had the ground clearance it could.

And yes you can use the lean angle to relate to corner speed required to hold a given radius. But if all you're after is cornering g's that force is in balance with the weight of bike, so all that matters is the angle through the c.g..
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:21 PM   #39
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Um. So you are saying the data is subjective?

Uh oh. .....
Being deoendant on the riders ability is not the same as saying subjective. Taking the same rider on all the different bikes and having the different bikes being the only variable(as close to it as possible). Then you will get good comparative data and that would be the only thing it would be good for, is a comparison between the bikes. Which is all the OP wanted, more ammo for a magazine race.
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:22 PM   #40
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Quote:
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Um. So you are saying the data is subjective?

Uh oh. .....
There all the same g's if you get to the same lean angle. Achieving that lean angle yes is subjective and dependent on many things. So skidpad g type data is not really going to be that helpful in comparing differ bikes.
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