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Old 12-09-2014, 02:40 PM   #1
Track_Graphics
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MotoHouston Virtual Build

MHVB zpse71bcd76

Decades ago I was asked by a friend to do this.
Design and Build a Bike from the ground up.

The idea was inspired by IOMTT but the goal was to run it on I94 and I90 in Montana.

It's to be a flat out speed bike with the ability to take the longer turns a high speed.

I'm purposing us members of HM input all the compiled knowledge we have and design a bike that could be built and accomplish the goal.

The goal would be to run the I90-I94 corridor AFAP. A bike that can easily cruise those long straight stretches at over 250 mph and take those long sweeping corners with as little loss in speed as possible.

What kind of bike could do this? What would it look like?
What would be the rider/bike configuration?
What would the wheelbase be and what would the tires look like?
What kind of engine would pull a bike like this? Sounds weird but I'm thinking a long, short, V5. 2 long rod pistons in front and 3 short at 60.

We create fantasy football teams we can never really put together.
Is there anyone interested in creating a fantasy bike - BUT it actually has the possibility of being built?

If you're interested, let me know. I can create the parts and assemble them. Keep you updated with graphics and watch it grow as we start from the ground up. Part by part, designing and solving situations as a team.

Sketch out anything and let's put a a virtual bike together. It will be full 3D and functional, so the reality is - it could actually be built and we can watch it evolve with our input. I use the highest end 3D modeling package available to industry, so it can be as accurate and functional as we want it.

A few pointers:
It will be metric.
Not jet or rocket.
2 wheels.
Advanced and modified sportbike configuration like CMRA or AMA - but more wild. Something that looks cool and you'd be scared shitless to ride.
NOT on of those ridiculous concept bikes that can't even steer.

Here's an example of a rear end I started based on dual shaft drive, gears and pinions rather than sprockets. It's just an idea.

mhvbreartire zpsc7b103b0

(FYI - I'm a design engineer for NASA and Schlumberger. I can make your ideas really work. Yes, I'm a rocket scientist with dirty hands.), but usless with a wrench.
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:10 PM   #2
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H2R

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Old 12-09-2014, 04:17 PM   #3
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1st why would your great additional drivetrain loss by increasing rotational weight with a shaft drive?

2nd if your looking to go around 250, your powerplant will not be that big of a deal. I would go with an engine known for reliability and longevity at sustained high RPM. So a V design would not be first on my list. Gearing and Aero would be my priority to lessin the stress on the powerplant. If you desire to reach said speed in a shorter amount of time then modifications to the engine should be made.

3rd I don't think anyone besides a engineer working for a tire manufacture could give relevant info for tire design for needed grip in a turn at 250+.
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:55 PM   #4
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that is not much wheel and a LOT of rubber
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkansasDave View Post
H2R

/end thread.
Wow. Your insite is so humbling. Please, impress me again. Maybe on what sandwhich to buy for a picnic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbfuller View Post
that is not much wheel and a LOT of rubber
Just a start. Basically, just a rough sketch. I was hoping to get a little input on what a good wheel base would be for long distance at high speed. Rider sustainability, ya know.

If you've ever had any ideas - - - - - I'd like to make something of them. That's all. Might be cool to see a bunch of ideas come together and see what the end result would be.
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Track_Graphics
I'm a design engineer for NASA
So, wanna put in a good word for me for the flight controller job I just applied for?

Sounds like a cool concept. Will stay posted.
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Track_Graphics View Post
(FYI - I'm a design engineer for NASA and Schlumberger. I can make your ideas really work. Yes, I'm a rocket scientist with dirty hands.), but usless with a wrench.
PTC Creo? Or are you guys still using ProEngineer? I can't recall off the top of my head, but we trained a couple guys on CREO 2.0 for Schlumberger about a year or two ago.
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:26 PM   #8
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I believe your wheel would need to be designed around the requirements of the tire you choose.
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
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Wow. Your insite is so humbling. Please, impress me again. Maybe on what sandwhich to buy for a picnic.
PB&J. Perfect combination of saltiness and sweetness, while providing a balance of carbohydrates and protein to give you quick energy and still sustain you through the afternoon. There's the added benefit that peanut butter acts as an adhesive to actually hold the sandwich together, unlike lesser sandwich materials like deli meats.
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
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PB&J. Perfect combination of saltiness and sweetness, while providing a balance of carbohydrates and protein to give you quick energy and still sustain you through the afternoon. There's the added benefit that peanut butter acts as an adhesive to actually hold the sandwich together, unlike lesser sandwich materials like deli meats.
I honestly miss PB&J's . Thanks for giving me the graving
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Wow. Your insite is so humbling. Please, impress me again. Maybe on what sandwhich to buy for a picnic.......
All sammich questions go here http://www.motohouston.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=225






































































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Old 12-09-2014, 07:31 PM   #12
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You will want a longer wheel base to keep the bike stable at higher speeds. Agility won't matter because you're plan is to only do long straights and minor kinks in the road.

I agree the tire should come before the wheel. The thought that comes to mind is the biggest contact patch you can get.

Aero is where the most gains will be made. Maybe consider something that is fully enclosed.


While pb&j's are good I can never pass up a good pulled pork sammich.
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
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While pb&j's are good I can never pass up a good pulled pork sammich.
Sam's Club, but ya need to add a little more BBQ sauce.

That pic is just a WAG.
Also - I spent 10 years designing race engines for Mercury Marine. I don't know why chain drive is better. I'm saying that as a matter of HP. We commonly put 300hp through a 1.25 4140HT shaft that was friction welded to some grade of stainless. Can't remember the grade, but that was for production engines.

A lot of guys added spray and would literally twist the hub right out of the prop.
So - Chain is the way to go?? Why is that?

I only know that if a shaft is in the wrong place it can raise the back of the bike when you accelerate.
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Old 12-10-2014, 08:40 AM   #14
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Chain is the way to go?? Why is that?
The biggest issue with bikes is due to the typical layout. Changing the "direction" of power output you're necessarily going to lose some power just in the transmission. Chain or belt has a lot less drivetrain power loss than a shaft.

For example, on the v4 on my Venture, you're running a 90 degree bevel at the transmission output to turn the shaft, and then essentially another at the rear hub in order to turn the wheel. All the serious VMax guys do a chain conversion to lose a lot of the rotating mass and drivetrain loss. The numbers I've seen around the vmax forum claim about 25% drivetrain loss with shaft, and about 15-20% with chain. Of course, they're also claiming as low as 5% for a belt.

As long as we're going with a fantasy build, I'm thinking I'd want a swing arm front end with hub-centric steering. Maybe run a single side swing arm on the rear and a 2" (Harley primary belt style) drive belt. Whatever engine you're going to throw in should probably be turbo charged, at least. Maybe one of the Hayabusa-based v-8 engines with a nice blower...

hayabusav82800
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Old 12-10-2014, 08:54 AM   #15
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Quote:
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The biggest issue with bikes is due to the typical layout. Changing the "direction" of power output you're necessarily going to lose some power just in the transmission. ...yada yada yada.... Hayabusa-based v-8 engines with a nice blower...

hayabusav82800
Ok - lets see how much of that I can work in.

Only question would be since I know more than 300hp can be put through a shaft, how much hp can be put through a belt or chain?

First off - I'll change up the wheel and tire in the back, come up with a wheel-base and then convert to a belt drive..... right? Any one have any compromise or different opinion to consider?

One more thing - it won't have a tail storage, so we'll have to come up with an idea on where to store the PBJs and pulled pork.....
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Old 12-10-2014, 08:58 AM   #16
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Seems like y'all are over thinking it.
Why not a big block V8 in a streamliner type chassis? Maybe shorten the wheelbase from a salt flats type so that it would handle the curves better?
If you must stay with moto derived power then imagine a V8 made from 2 inline 4's or even simpler just use 2 engines. Maybe hayabusa engines.
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Old 12-10-2014, 09:05 AM   #17
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Quote:
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PTC Creo? Or are you guys still using ProEngineer? I can't recall off the top of my head, but we trained a couple guys on CREO 2.0 for Schlumberger about a year or two ago.
Using CREO 2.0. Been on the PTC products since 93 and taught Pro-e up nort eh. I don't see a single advantage that CREO has over version 18 back in the late 90's and the earlier versions where of 773H of a lot more straight forward. Now everything is just re-arranged and more of a pain in the to get done what you want. thney trrew out their most important buzz word - "robust". We have hundreds of people making things look nice on the screen but the model is pure . It is WAY off the mark as far as intuitive user interface applications.

And if you've been using CREO - PLEASE tell me how to "SKETCH A DATUM CURVE". Not create a sketch or create points and pout a curve through them - - I want to know how to do exactly what I said and you could do it in all other versions before CREO. "SKETCH A DATUM CURVE"

On the other side - if you're interested in modeling up some parts for this - JOIN IN ! ! !
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:04 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Track_Graphics View Post
Using CREO 2.0. Been on the PTC products since 93 and taught Pro-e up nort eh. I don't see a single advantage that CREO has over version 18 back in the late 90's and the earlier versions where of 773H of a lot more straight forward. Now everything is just re-arranged and more of a pain in the to get done what you want. thney trrew out their most important buzz word - "robust". We have hundreds of people making things look nice on the screen but the model is pure . It is WAY off the mark as far as intuitive user interface applications.

And if you've been using CREO - PLEASE tell me how to "SKETCH A DATUM CURVE". Not create a sketch or create points and pout a curve through them - - I want to know how to do exactly what I said and you could do it in all other versions before CREO. "SKETCH A DATUM CURVE"

On the other side - if you're interested in modeling up some parts for this - JOIN IN ! ! !
I only use SolidWorks now for work. Did ProE a bit in college, but haven't touched it in more than 10 years now.

I agree that if you're only going for top speed aerodynamics will be your biggest hurdle. Will definitely need an aero shell to cover everything up.
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:13 AM   #19
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Quote:
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I only use SolidWorks now for work. Did ProE a bit in college, but haven't touched it in more than 10 years now.

I agree that if you're only going for top speed aerodynamics will be your biggest hurdle. Will definitely need an aero shell to cover everything up.
I can convert solidworks. Jump in.
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:15 AM   #20
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A request sent to Pirelli-

To whom it may concern;
I'm a member of Motohouston.com. I started a thread and several of us are starting a virtual build of a unique bike. Inspired by IOMTT we would like to conceptualize a 2 wheel bike that can run the I-90 and I-94 corridor through Montana at top speed. Similar to the German autobahn, only straighter and flatter.
As a baseline, we want to start with good tires, develope a rough frame/rider configuration, suspension, and powerplant.
I'm a design engineer at NASA and have designed several spacecraft and components and also work for Schlumberger Oil & Gas and build/buy track bikes for AMA racing.
I'm a 20 year expert in several moduals of PTC Pro-e/CREO so this is what will be used as the design softwear, so I can analize all aspects of the tires or any other part of this concept (fantasy) bike.
At this time, I'm requesting tire dimensions for a tire that can handle sustained speeds over 200mph, but 75% running time will be straight. Assuming 80 ambient air temperature.
Can you please provied some dimensional data we can enter as a starting point? I want a relatively accurate model of the tire.
As my career deals daily with proprietary information, I am very familiar with restrictions and COI conditions, so I will adhere to any restrictions pertaining to Pirelli data.

Sincerely,
Dan Miller
www.TrackGraphics.us
TrackGraphics1@gmail.com
281-795-5682
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