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Old 10-29-2014, 01:03 PM   #121
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But where are your percentages and hard numbers?

My study says that you have to pay money in order to avoid getting rear ended.
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:06 PM   #122
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The "state" making millions?! Try the City.

That revenue stream is far more democratic than sale tax, property tax, or income tax. Don't want to pay?! Don't run red lights!

That bit you keep repeating about getting popped doing a right turn on red don't hold water. I've made countless RTOR - the proper way - and never once got popped by a LEO or red light cam.

Increases in read-end collisions is caused principally by texting and electronics distractions, than by RLCs.

Redlight cams influence driver behaviors by making them pay more attention as they approach the lights - and slow down - than causing them to slam on their brakes. I drive through the 59 & BW8 cams RacerX talked about... everyday. That is what I observe.
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:10 PM   #123
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It's only those that are unfamiliar w where the lights are and those that aren't paying attention. Which one are you shel, since you slam on the brakes so often?
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:13 PM   #124
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shelwithoutnutts. . .You disregard my IIHS link, and all of the statistical data that they compile every year, by stating that they serve to profit from more cameras. The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety is a nonprofit organization dedicated to reducing losses caused by motor vehicle accidents on our nations roads. Your logic is as flawed as your arguments in this thread. Insurance companies do not stand to profit from red light cameras, nor the "800% increase in rear end collisions" that you keep stating that these cameras cause. You fail to provide any credible documentation supporting your claims. . .quite typical of an internet troll.
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:13 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volfy View Post
That bit you keep repeating about getting popped doing a right turn on red don't hold water. I've made countless RTOR - the proper way - and never once got popped by a LEO or red light cam.
I've done it countless times too, which is why I was shocked when the ticket came in the mail. It was at this particular intersection that people were having problems.
When I went to their link to watch the video, I was ...then months later I heard about people getting together and not paying due to the exact same thing at that intersection. Yes you're supposed to come to a complete stop on red, but if the light turns yellow for less than a second and you're already getting ready to round the turn, it's kind of hard(impossible) to come to a complete stop.
Then you had anatram(pro camera) who had to go to court because a truck held him up. He had t take it to court, WTF?

IMO if they can't get their together across the board, on EVERY light in the city, they have no right to put them up.
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:17 PM   #126
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That old addadge, it's not how often you do the deed, it's how often you're caught.
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:18 PM   #127
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Quote:
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Insurance companies do not stand to profit from red light cameras
Yeah okay, because they aren't able to increase insurance rates in areas that have more accidents.
Sounds like a no brainer to me. Significantly increase the rate of minor accidents in exchange for reducing an almost negligible amount of fatal accidents. Tell the public it reduces fatal accidents by 25% and it's for their safety...admit that it does increase rear end collisions, but neglect to tell them the actual percentage that was surely also calculated when the third party study was done.

how about they run some numbers on how much the city of Houston profited off the cameras, yet did with the money? meanwhile the roads are up and traffic is so bad you can barely get anywhere, plus it's causing a ton of accident's due to congestion. Yeah, those numbers are secret.
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:22 PM   #128
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I'm not saying that you're right or wrong, but you do realize you're just spitballing here, right? You're theory-crafting in the face of hard data, creating hypothetical situations that cater to your opinion. Maybe you are right, but it'd just be coincidence anyway.
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:23 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X View Post
That old addadge, it's not how often you do the deed, it's how often you're caught.
Either way if you got ticketed/in an accdent, you must have done it right?
Your post had some condescending tone about my driving ability, when yours isn't any better. If you have never gone through an intersection on yellow, or had to hit your brakes hard to stop in time for a red light.

Again, you red light cam guy's have the general attitude of "I'm a driving genius and everyone else on the road sucks! bring back the cameras so they can all pay and I will get by scott free because I am perfect!"...which will never happen because the cameras aren't functioning the same way a human officer would.

Modifying your post, I could say that it's not how often the cameras do they deed, it's how often they do it to you.

I had no problem with the cameras until I was wrongly issued a ticket.
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:26 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Repth View Post
I'm not saying that you're right or wrong, but you do realize you're just spitballing here, right? You're theory-crafting in the face of hard data, creating hypothetical situations that cater to your opinion. Maybe you are right, but it'd just be coincidence anyway.
So show me some hard data that shows that the red light cameras don't increase rear end collisions and that no one is being wrongly accused f running a red light.
Because it's there, but the insurance institute site conveniently leaves that part of the study out

And if you guys don't believe that it increases rear end collisions and people are being wrongly issued tickets, you're blind and I'm not wasting my time trying to find studies for you to ignore.
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:29 PM   #131
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Quote:
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Again, you red light cam guy's have the general attitude of "I'm a driving genius and everyone else on the road sucks!
As a motorcyclist, that's how I do ride and drive. Good luck if you think diff.
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:35 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X View Post
As a motorcyclist, that's how I do ride and drive. Good luck if you think diff.
That is how I ride because I err on the side of caution, but I know that in reality, this is not rational and we shouldn't be passing laws based on that...that's just how I ride when my life is on the line.
Doesn't mean you need to set up cameras and ticket everyone who makes a mistake and gets the timing wrong on a red light.

All I'm saying is that your does, in fact, stink. You've ran red lights, I know it.
You also speed on backroads, I'm sure.
How about the county tap into all your GPS info and ticket you every time you do 1mph over the speed limit (by mistake or otherwise)electronically? What if the GPS malfunctioned and you were doing exactly the limit, but that freaking automated system thought you were doing 1 over? Just go to court and fight it, don't be an idiot and just pay it! spend at least one day a week in court. It's a great system.

Again, the camera has no DISCRETION

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Old 10-29-2014, 01:36 PM   #133
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Quote:
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So show me some hard data that shows that the red light cameras don't increase rear end collisions and that no one is being wrongly accused f running a red light.
Because it's there, but the insurance institute site conveniently leaves that part of the study out

And if you guys don't believe that it increases rear end collisions and people are being wrongly issued tickets, you're blind and I'm not wasting my time trying to find studies for you to ignore.
Question #10 on the link that I provided early in this thread provides the data. I'll post it here for everyone to see:

"The study found that, overall, right-angle crashes decreased by 25 percent while rear-end collisions increased by 15 percent. Results showed a positive aggregate economic benefit of more than $18.5 million in the seven communities. The authors concluded that the economic costs from the increase in rear-end crashes were more than offset by the economic benefits from the decrease in right-angle crashes targeted by red light cameras.

Not all studies have reported increases in rear-end crashes. The review by the Cochrane Collaboration did not find a statistically significant change in rear-end injury crashes."

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/re...-running/qanda

I must have missed you at lunch today...
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:39 PM   #134
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Quote:
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Again, the camera has no DISCRETION
Of course it doesn't. We've covered this, but to rehash, this is why all tickets are reviewed by someone.
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:44 PM   #135
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Why can't the city operate the cameras themselves? They paid 8 million one year to the company running them.
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:48 PM   #136
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Quote:
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I've done it countless times too, which is why I was shocked when the ticket came in the mail. It was at this particular intersection that people were having problems.
When I went to their link to watch the video, I was ...then months later I heard about people getting together and not paying due to the exact same thing at that intersection. Yes you're supposed to come to a complete stop on red, but if the light turns yellow for less than a second and you're already getting ready to round the turn, it's kind of hard(impossible) to come to a complete stop.
Then you had anatram(pro camera) who had to go to court because a truck held him up. He had t take it to court, WTF?
I'd much rather get caught by the cam than by a cop. With a cam, you can review the evidence and decide with great degree of accuracy whether you actually deserve the ticket or not. With a cop, it's your word against his, an the court is more likely to believe the LEO... rightfully so.

As for "kind of hard(impossible) to come to a complete stop", now... really? Last time I checked, it just take a foot on the brake pedal. How hard is that? Or do you mean... it's impossible for you to DECIDE to come to a complete stop?
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:51 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetcycles View Post
"The study found that, overall, right-angle crashes decreased by 25 percent while rear-end collisions increased by 15 percent. Results showed a positive aggregate economic benefit of more than $18.5 million in the seven communities. The authors concluded that the economic costs from the increase in rear-end crashes were more than offset by the economic benefits from the decrease in right-angle crashes targeted by red light cameras.

Not all studies have reported increases in rear-end crashes. The review by the Cochrane Collaboration did not find a statistically significant change in rear-end injury crashes."

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/re...-running/qanda

I must have missed you at lunch today...
And who funded the study?
Not only that, but it DOES show an increased amount of rear end collisions. What it doesn't show you is actual numbers. A 15% increase could be a of a lot more than a 25% increase, if the numbers were much higher to begin with.
You missed me at lunch because I wasn't there, because I'm not into carrying over trivial internet dispute into real life. I was counting on you to be able to use the same good judgement, but no such luck.


Quote:
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Of course it doesn't. We've covered this, but to rehash, this is why all tickets are reviewed by someone.
We have also covered how myself and a whole lot of other people were STILL issued a ticket over a technicality, that they either had to ignore the ticket over, appear in court, pay the ticket, or join a class action lawsuit to fight it AFTER it was reviewed...so either these people are just skimming over the videos, or they are skewed on the side of issuing tickets because the employment is supported by more ticket revenue. I'd say likely it's a combination of both.
Either way it's a bunch of bullshit that I shouldn't have to deal with.
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:55 PM   #138
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[QUOTE=Volfy;3832673 Last time I checked, it just take a foot on the brake pedal. How hard is that? Or do you mean... it's impossible for you to DECIDE to come to a complete stop?[/QUOTE]

Last time I checked, if you try to come to a stop while moving at 20+ mph with less than 10ft of space, you are probably going to end up stopped in the intersection.
As far as possible for me to DECIDE to stop? That's a tough one, because I think the human reaction time is around one second and the light was only yellow for about that long. A robot doesn't have such a slow reaction time, so it's easy to issue tickets that were such a close call that you have to review the slowed down video multiple times to see where you actually committed a offense.
Surely the courts agree with me, since it was on the news and there were thousands of other people who never had to pay at that exact intersection...but guess what? I never got a refund for being wrongly ticketed...but don't worry guy's it's all about safety, not profit!

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Old 10-29-2014, 02:03 PM   #139
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Quote:
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Last time I checked, if you try to come to a stop while moving at 20+ mph with less than 10ft of space, you are probably going to end up stopped in the intersection.
As far as possible for me to DECIDE to stop? That's a tough one, because I think the human reaction time is around one second and the light was only yellow for about that long. A robot doesn't have such a slow reaction time, so it's easy to issue tickets that were such a close call that you have to review the slowed down video multiple times to see where you actually committed a offense.
Surely the courts agree with me, since it was on the news and there were thousands of other people who never had to pay at that exact intersection...but guess what? I never got a refund for being wrongly ticketed...but don't worry guy's it's all about safety, not profit!
Your assessment that the average human reaction time is an entire second shows how detached from reality this argument really is.
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Old 10-29-2014, 02:03 PM   #140
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More fuel for the fire..

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news...n-in-new-fines

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news...icket-bounties

and...
http://www.wtsp.com/story/news/inves...nies/17313881/

"A driver fought his red light camera ticket on the grounds that camera vendor American Traffic Solutions (ATS) was illegally issuing Uniform Traffic Citations (UTC) to drivers."
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