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Old 10-17-2014, 04:07 PM   #201
Solracer
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I'm sorry, I don't think anyone should have the right to sue extreme either.


HAPPENS.
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:17 PM   #202
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A certain degree of safety is expected at any track day. You expect that track marshals are looking at stickers and you expect that corner workers have been briefed to know what to look for.
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This ^^^
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:17 PM   #203
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the track marshal should be looking for stickers to make sure folks are inthe right group....that being said people will blow by the grid or put their sticker on a hard to see place so sometimes this can be difficult.

I thought I read he was put in L3 on purpose.

Anyway, none of it matters. Everyone is responsible for thier own .

Unless I take out a gun and start shooitng people, or some other up that would never happen, no legal needs to be considered.

I have had a collision with a rider on the track, we both accepted blame. It was almost strange we were both verry sorry and both thought it was our fault.

It was my fault though.
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:18 PM   #204
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Just to put a pointer out there from an old guy


Never look back.

I know getting buzzed by what feels like close passes is a little unsettling. You feel like you want to get out of the faster guys way so you shoot little glances backward before you turn in to make sure nobody is there.......

That's the worst thing you can do on a track.

It pulls you off line & worse makes you think you should adjust...... They will find their way around you. Just keep doing what you're doing & keep learning. They were in your shoes once so don't feel too guilty.
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:20 PM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanXJ View Post
the track marshal should be looking for stickers to make sure folks are inthe right group....that being said people will blow by the grid or put their sticker on a hard to see place so sometimes this can be difficult.

I thought I read he was put in L3 on purpose.

Anyway, none of it matters. Everyone is responsible for thier own .

Unless I take out a gun and start shooitng people, or some other up that would never happen, no legal needs to be considered.

I have had a collision with a rider on the track, we both accepted blame. It was almost strange we were both verry sorry and both thought it was our fault.

It was my fault though.
Josh posted that he and two other marked level 2 riders he was with got on the track with level 3 by mistake. A marshal or another staff member should apply the sticker, not the rider
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:22 PM   #206
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:22 PM   #207
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To derail a little bit, but if you have any issues whatsoever, do you go slow off line or slow on the race line? I guess I've heard both, and honestly I've done both as well.

Example turns at TWS (Texas World Speedway): Exiting turn 6 or turn 9. Assuming you have mechanical or have a bee in your helmet and can't ride at full speed, should you be pushing all the way to the outside of those turns (aka race line, but predictable) or hug the inside? I guess if you have your hand up can you basically just do either? Because the hand up is the signal that you are doing something different?

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Old 10-17-2014, 04:26 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebujster View Post
To derail a little bit, but if you have any issues whatsoever, do you go slow off line or slow on the race line? I guess I've heard both, and honestly I've done both as well.

Example turns at TWS (Texas World Speedway): Exiting turn 6 or turn 9. Assuming you have mechanical or have a bee in your helmet and can't ride at full speed, should you be pushing all the way to the outside of those turns (aka race line, but predictable) or hug the inside?
I'd say get outside the race line as soon as it's safe to do so and stay on that edge of the track whether it's the far right or far left
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:29 PM   #209
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Cody - If you have a mechanical issue going into that left turn and you throw your hand up to signal, do you suggest going to the inside and near the apex, or staying right and keeping right?
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:29 PM   #210
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We just race mini, but the rule we follow is to get off the race line and if you are able to make it to the track exit do so with your arm in the air so other riders see you and know that there is an issue. If you cannot make a safe enough speed to get off the track quickly then put your arm up to signal a problem and get off the track. I would hazzard to say that on a big bike with high rate of closing I'd probably be more inclined to just get off the track if I could not make it to pit in in short order. Also take into account limited visibility turns and such... it turns into a judgement call in which you should err on the side of caution.
my two cents
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:36 PM   #211
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So..what's the idea of signing the waiver if the organizer will get sued if something happens?

I though the idea of signing that waiver was not to allow you to sue.
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:38 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhenriksen View Post
I remember attempting an outside pass coming out of T12 at TWS (Texas World Speedway). Rider in front was so slow, never dreamed he'd track out as far as he did. Wound up going off track rather than make contact with him. After all, I was the passer & it was my responsibility to make the pass cleanly.

Didn't go down, though!
sorry about that...lol
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:42 PM   #213
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So..what's the idea of signing the waiver if the organizer will get sued if something happens?

I though the idea of signing that waiver was not to allow you to sue.
The waiver helps the person or organization requiring one to be signed to defend a lawsuit. It can't prevent a lawsuit.
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:49 PM   #214
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This the guy?
https://www.facebook.com/pawel.wieczorek.96?fref=ts
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:51 PM   #215
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Most waivers try and protect against negligence.

A waiver/release agreement has two primary protective purposes: 1) "Contractual Exculpation" which uses contract law principles (waiver/release is a contract) to excuse a sports organization for its simple negligence and 2) provides "real evidence" of the sports organization's warning of inherent and other risks thereby triggering the common law Assumption Of Risk (AOR) defense under tort law.


However attorneys will try and present a case of gross negligence, above and beyond basic negligence which the waiver stated.

Filing a lawsuit for which a track accident occurred is a CHICKENSHIT move. If I see this guy at a trackday, I'll make it my mission to tell every person at the event that they might get sued by this guy. I'll inform the TD org and the track mgmt.
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:56 PM   #216
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Quote:
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Also, a person I'm sure he's familiar with, Steve McNamara routinely says in his riders meeting, "if you're exiting the track, put your hand up and stay on the inside." Yes, when in the chicane, not at turn 12...Tojo92So again,

The attached picture:
Green: What we both thought Josh would do
Yellow: What Josh actually did
Red: Pawel's predicted line
Red X: Pawel's predicted place of passing, several feet outside of Josh's predicted line
Blue dot: place of contact
Pink: Tojo's suggested line
Black dot: what would have happened if Josh had stayed on the line or stayed inside if he was pitting in and Pawel took the inside line
Your drawing clearly shows the impact well before the turn even starts. It was a bad call. You both should have gone inside.

Also, MacMan's comments about staying to the inside when exiting means to do so at TWS (Texas World Speedway) while in the chicane, not at any turn on the track.

I'm done trying to help you see it. I'll buy you a cold beer next time we see each other and maybe you'll get it.

Carry on.
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Old 10-17-2014, 05:10 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supadupa View Post
Just to put a pointer out there from an old guy


Never look back.

I know getting buzzed by what feels like close passes is a little unsettling. You feel like you want to get out of the faster guys way so you shoot little glances backward before you turn in to make sure nobody is there.......

That's the worst thing you can do on a track.

It pulls you off line & worse makes you think you should adjust...... They will find their way around you. Just keep doing what you're doing & keep learning. They were in your shoes once so don't feel too guilty.
Good advice. I've had some close calls on the track as well - some due to my mistakes, and some due to others. It's a risk you assume when you get on the track.

Hope this is over for you soon Josh.
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Old 10-17-2014, 05:31 PM   #218
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I mean if you do something that they tell you not to do, and look behind you (which usually causes you to veer off line) do it anyway, and end up causing an incident, you deserve the blame.
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Old 10-17-2014, 05:44 PM   #219
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I mean if you do something that they tell you not to do, and look behind you (which usually causes you to veer off line) do it anyway, and end up causing an incident, you deserve the blame.
By the same token, if you see a rider ahead of you doing that, and you went ahead and try to pass him anyway, then you too deserve blame.
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Old 10-17-2014, 05:57 PM   #220
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Lmao no
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