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Old 10-23-2014, 05:55 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoutguy View Post
Why should taking the basic motorcycle class be any different than taking drivers education-which is required, and teaches the same basic safety principles?
Thats another thing, I'd say at least half of the classroom material was rehashed stuff from.drivers ed. Maybe they could make it a one day class if you already have a DL?
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:55 PM   #122
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Just to add to this little discussion, the DOD requires all military personal to take the BRC, or the MSRC if they want to ride a motorcycle. I there wasn't any benefit to be gained from the course why is it required? (and I do know the answer)
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:56 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelnutt View Post
Thats another thing, I'd say at least half of the classroom material was rehashed stuff from.drivers ed. Maybe they could make it a one day class if you already have a DL? :Shrug:
Something that is currently being worked on. Although a lot of the concepts that are encountered in drivers ed are more of an issue with motorcycle's due to situational awareness, stability and vulnerability. Face it just about most idiots can and do operate a motor vehicle-a lot of what we do to ride a motorcycle is comparable to operating aircraft with the same mental processes involved.

Last edited by scoutguy; 10-23-2014 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 10-23-2014, 06:30 PM   #124
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I think instruction is beneficial, you are not really arguing for better instruction you are saying take away all mandatory instruction. That doesn't fit with an argument that MSF is ineffective. Do you think instruction is effective in creating better/safer riders?

I got my M by riding to the DPS with a friend in a car following me and taking a test.
I may have misspelled course but your reading comprehension sucks. Do you know what option means?
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Old 10-23-2014, 06:39 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post
I may have misspelled course but your reading comprehension sucks. Do you know what option means?
Antonym of mandatory. As in you want to "take away all mandatory instruction".
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Old 10-23-2014, 06:45 PM   #126
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Quote:
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Antonym of mandatory. As in you want to "take away all mandatory instruction".
No I want the option to test out. Try and keep up blah..
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Old 10-23-2014, 06:47 PM   #127
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Grammar 's
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Old 10-23-2014, 06:48 PM   #128
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Quote:
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No I want the option to test out. Try and keep up blah..
If you can test out of something, it isn't mandatory. You aren't making a distinction.
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Old 10-23-2014, 07:03 PM   #129
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This is going downhill fast
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Old 10-24-2014, 08:49 AM   #130
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I would recommend taking this one step further. Instead of making motorcycle instruction mandatory only for getting your "M" endorsement, make a full day of motorcycle instruction mandatory for getting your "C" license, unless you can show medical waiver. Understanding what it's like to operate a motorcycle on the road and how different it really is has made me a better driver in my car as well, so let's just lump motorcycle training in with general driver's ed in the hopes that it will get through to at least some cagers that they need to actually watch out for motorcycles, and then just make the actual test the requirement to gain the endorsement.
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Old 10-24-2014, 09:39 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae View Post
I would recommend taking this one step further. Instead of making motorcycle instruction mandatory only for getting your "M" endorsement, make a full day of motorcycle instruction mandatory for getting your "C" license, unless you can show medical waiver. Understanding what it's like to operate a motorcycle on the road and how different it really is has made me a better driver in my car as well, so let's just lump motorcycle training in with general driver's ed in the hopes that it will get through to at least some cagers that they need to actually watch out for motorcycles, and then just make the actual test the requirement to gain the endorsement.
Via:wiki
Quote:
in societies where rider training was both widely available and in generally mandatory, they were unable to find conclusive evidence that riders without training were more likely to be involved in accidents. Nor were their interviews able to discern a significant difference between the number of riders who had been in accidents who were unqualified to operate their motorcycles, and the number among those who had not been in accidents.[10]*The MAIDS study did find that drivers of other vehicles were less likely to fail to perceive motorcycles in accidents if they themselves had a motorcycle license,[11]*and that motorcyclists riding illegally without a license were more likely to have accidents.[12]
See you guys think that just because the info is given its implemented. The roads aren't safer because of the class(I couldn't find much on the interwebs). Yes, it helps people that are learning to ride but even then a two day course doesn't help with the "safety" of the rider. $200 and 2 days shouldn't be mandatory but not eliminated either. The riding and written test I took in the 90's would quickly Guage if someone had the skill set and knowledge of the law to receive his/her endorsement. This isn't that far fetched.
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Old 10-24-2014, 09:54 AM   #132
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^ right, like I was saying, you can't train someone to give a about their safety.
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Old 10-24-2014, 10:46 AM   #133
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Quote:
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^ right, like I was saying, you can't train someone to give a about their safety.
Absolutely correct.

BTW, the training mandate was put into effect due to the efforts of the motorcycle rights organizations in the state lobbying to "educate, not legislate" in the face of what seemed, at the time, like an inevitable mandatory helmet law. So, if mandatory training is rescinded, it's reasonable to expect a mandatory helmet law will follow as a way to placate the feds and keep Washington $$$ flowing to Texas for highway/road repairs. Yep, it's all about money. If you don't believe me, read the NHTSA recommendations.

TMRA, TMRA II, the Texas ABATE Confederation, COC and clubs are simply not going to support a mandatory helmet law, and their voices are LOUD in Austin. So, figure the training mandate is here to stay.

Might as well try to make it cheaper, eh? And help the providers stay in business, right? Arguing whether or not mandatory training is a waste of time is a waste of air. Better to get the $$$ freed up, the $$$ we have to pay, and try to help our brothers and sisters get the training they're required to have affordably and conveniently. Email Joe Strauss and let him know using our money to pad budgets is not acceptable. District121.Straus@house.state.tx.us

Of course that takes a bit more effort than posting on a forum, doesn't it?
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Old 10-24-2014, 11:14 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post
Via:wiki

Quote:
in societies where rider training was both widely available and in generally mandatory, they were unable to find conclusive evidence that riders without training were more likely to be involved in accidents. Nor were their interviews able to discern a significant difference between the number of riders who had been in accidents who were unqualified to operate their motorcycles, and the number among those who had not been in accidents.[10]*The MAIDS study did find that drivers of other vehicles were less likely to fail to perceive motorcycles in accidents if they themselves had a motorcycle license,[11]*and that motorcyclists riding illegally without a license were more likely to have accidents.[12]
See you guys think that just because the info is given its implemented. The roads aren't safer because of the class(I couldn't find much on the interwebs). Yes, it helps people that are learning to ride but even then a two day course doesn't help with the "safety" of the rider. $200 and 2 days shouldn't be mandatory but not eliminated either. The riding and written test I took in the 90's would quickly Guage if someone had the skill set and knowledge of the law to receive his/her endorsement. This isn't that far fetched.
So then your evidence supports my suggestion that motorcycle training be a mandatory part of general driver's ed, and we just revert back to just the test for the "M" endorsement.

Perhaps in the case of fatal motorcycle accidents it's easier to reduce the overall numbers by training cages NOT to hit us, than to get riders to not kill themselves.
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Old 10-24-2014, 11:39 AM   #135
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Again, there is NO support in Austin for rescinding mandatory training. Aint gonna happen.

So here's the question: are you okay with the legislature taking money from you that's dedicated to doing something for motorcyclists, and having them withhold it at the same time they're making us take training?

Or do you think that money should be put to work for what it's intended?

That's the real choice. It's not hypothetical. It's real, and unless that money frees up, classes are going to get harder to find and more expensive. More people are going to ride unlicensed and the state and cities will get more ticket revenue. And more riders will find out, the hard way, that their insurance won't pay when they crash or have a liability claim tossed their way from something they did on their bikes.

This problem is reaching critical mass, and something needs to be done this legislative session.
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Old 10-27-2014, 10:01 AM   #136
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Several PMs asking for email address for Joe Strauss at the statehouse. Here it is again: District121.Straus@house.state.tx.us

He's the Speaker of the House, and they're the ones in charge of the budget and freeing up the money in the motorcycle training fund.

I'm working on an online petition that will go directly to him. As soon as it is ready, I'll post the link.

Thanks for your interest. Again, things are at critical mass with this issue and if this funding doesn't get freed up, things could get ugly...not just for course providers, but also for riders who just want to get their license. Please let your voice be heard. If we don't make noise, who will?
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Old 10-27-2014, 10:26 AM   #137
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Thanks Cog! I'll be looking forward to some updates.
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Old 10-28-2014, 05:14 PM   #138
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as promised, a letter you can send to your rep in austin

The Honorable _________________
Texas House of Representatives
P.O. Box 2910
Austin, Texas 78768-2910

Dear Honorable Representative ________________:

As a motorcyclist in Texas, I am writing to encourage you to support legislation for increased
funding for motorcycle training. I am concerned that over 14 million dollars has been
accumulated in the Motorcycle Education Fund (Transportation Code, Chapter 7, Section
662.011) to defray costs associated with administering motorcycle training and yet the budget
allocated to support this training continues to shrink every year (from over $1,000,000 in 2009 to
$400,000 in 2014) despite more motorcycle registrations in the State of Texas.
In 2014, the Technical Assessment Team for the National Highway Traffic Safety
Administration, in cooperation with the Texas Department of Transportation, recommended that
the State of Texas provide capital improvements for providers of Motorcycle training courses
including updating training motorcycles and helping secure range locations. Space (parking lots)
to provide this training has been increasingly scarce and small business course providers simply
cannot afford to spend a half million dollars to buy real estate and pave parking lots, plus buy
motorcycles, pay Coaches, and other expenses.
Tuition for the Basic Rider Course is already capped at $235 by the State. Increasing the cap or
removing it entirely is not the answer either as many students will choose to forego training and
ride without a license and training because of cost. More training means more skill and fewer
accidents and fatalities in Texas.
With over 980,000 licensed motorcyclists and more coming every day, I believe motorcycle
safety and Rider Education are critical issues in Texas and should get the attention they deserve.
Please look into the Motorcycle Education Fund and the budget of the Motorcycle Safety Unit at
the Texas Department of Public Safety.
Respectfully,
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Old 10-28-2014, 05:21 PM   #139
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Here's how to find your representative's name and email address: http://www.house.state.tx.us/help/

Simply copy and paste the above copy in your email to your representative.

Thanks for your help!
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Old 11-06-2014, 10:37 AM   #140
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Something you NEED to know!

An instructor friend of mine just told me that effective the 9th of this month (that's this coming Sunday), if your motorcycle class completion card is older than two years old, it will no longer be accepted for getting your M endorsement on your license. That means if you've put off getting the M, you better get it, and soon!
And, yes, that means if you've waited too long, and get a ticket for no license, you'll have to retake the class and spend the $$ all over again.
FYI. Tell your friends.
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