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Old 10-07-2014, 12:34 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tojo92 View Post
Suing is for . We all know the risks of riding on the track.

The guy made a mistake. A HUGE mistake, but a mistake none the less.

There's a big difference between making a mistake, and plain up. That was the latter.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:47 AM   #22
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There are different lines and closing speeds at every track. It is up to the rider to make a safe pass from behind.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:26 AM   #23
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There's a big difference between making a mistake, and plain up. That was the latter.
My point (made blunty with an attempt at humor) is that it wasn't intentional. If people sued every time there was a track incident, we wouldn't have track time at all.

I have seen GOOD riders have major brain farts that resulted in accidents.

The rider that was hit acknowledges this is a risk we take. He had good insurance, he knew his equipment was at risk, etc. It happens.

It sucks donkey , but it happens.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:27 AM   #24
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I like taking a higher line and diving in so I can see whats going on so I can avoid stuff like this.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:29 AM   #25
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You said the guy who had his wheel ahead of tankmonkey said it wasn't his fault? Why did he say it was or was not his fault?
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:36 AM   #26
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You said the guy who had his wheel ahead of tankmonkey said it wasn't his fault? Why did he say it was or was not his fault?
I'm not sure. I'll acknowledge I was because of it, but now that I've had a little time, I think it is possible when you do something like that, you want to try to blame someone/something else as part of human nature. We have all seen people do this at different levels; "I hit a rock" (no rock), "I hit the paint stripe and it was slick" (everyone else rides over it all day with no issues), "The wind from a passing truck blew me off course" (all other 20 riders weren't affected); "The guy didn't give me any room on the pass" (there was ten feet of track); etc.

I am hopeful the guy will come around to realizing what he did AND acknowledge it for HIMSELF. If he can't wrap his head around his actions causing this, then he really doesn't need to be on the track again.

If he (or anyone else) can to come grips with a major screw-up, they can learn from it and become better, safer riders. That's really the whole point of what we do at track days isn't it?
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:51 AM   #27
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Man I think tankmnky should have just taken the regular race line through there to avoid stuff like this and to be able to watch for other riders including himself. Youre a instructor right? You should know the higher line is safer and allows you to see more riders and maybe advise him to take the safer line to watch for himself? guy on the top swept down pretty quick and unexpectedly making himself unpredictable but also at the same time his front wheel was ahead of tank monkeys. Also it looks like tm was carrying good speed in there, and the guy on top was carrying some fair speed also but possibly assumed tm was slower since he was on the bottom part of the track

But remember im not blaming either rider just stating some observations from the video and asking questions since im not sure
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:53 AM   #28
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, ridesmart is holding events at ECR and TWS (Texas World Speedway) on the same weekend?

The dude that took the high line had some crazyyyyy rash. Definitely not ever buying a rev'it anything after seeing that.
-Cody
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:56 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r6racer View Post
Man I think tankmnky should have just taken the regular race line through there to avoid stuff like this and to be able to watch for other riders including himself. Youre a instructor right? You should know the higher line is safer and allows you to see more riders and maybe advise him to take the safer line to watch for himself? guy on the top swept down pretty quick and unexpectedly making himself unpredictable but also at the same time his front wheel was ahead of tank monkeys. Also it looks like tm was carrying good speed in there, and the guy on top was carrying some fair speed also but possibly assumed tm was slower since he was on the bottom part of the track

But remember im not blaming either rider just stating some observations from the video and asking questions since im not sure
I take the low line sometimes when racing if I know someone is trying to catch a draft from me. I'm not sure I've seen anything like this. I really can't comprehend what was going through the other rider's mind. If I make a pass like that in T1, knowing there can be a huge speed differential, I'm at least 15' away from the rider unless I know them/their speed & line. I really can't even wrap my head around this one :(
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:04 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r6racer View Post
Man I think tankmnky should have just taken the regular race line through there to avoid stuff like this and to be able to watch for other riders including himself. Youre a instructor right? You should know the higher line is safer and allows you to see more riders and maybe advise him to take the safer line to watch for himself? guy on the top swept down pretty quick and unexpectedly making himself unpredictable but also at the same time his front wheel was ahead of tank monkeys. Also it looks like tm was carrying good speed in there, and the guy on top was carrying some fair speed also but possibly assumed tm was slower since he was on the bottom part of the track

But remember im not blaming either rider just stating some observations from the video and asking questions since im not sure
You are incorrect, your assumption is that your opinion is the only correct answer. I say that as part of the discussion, not with ill intent.

His front wheel was in front because he cut him off without regard for the other rider's line. The wheel in front argument is not valid here. He T-bones him basically when Tankmonkey would have no idea he was coming in. Had he run along side a bit, then turned in, there may be some validity to your point. With this closing speed and the line he took, there is not.

I think he assumed Tankmonkey would slow going into one. If you have taken that line, you may realize that that close low line is smooth (after a brief bump or two) and many can carry more speed through one because of it.

The "regular race line' depends on who you ask. MANY take the low line and argue it is faster and safer. DO NOT assume the low line rider is slower EVER, if you want to be safe.

There was ZERO chance of recovery from Tankmonkey. The high line rider had a visual on a rider he was overtaking and CHOSE to cut across ALL other possible lines through that turn by aiming for the end of pit wall which literally cuts off all other lines from high to low.

Since you and I have some history of disagreement, I'll let others give their two cents, but that is mine.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:20 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tojo92 View Post

His front wheel was in front because he cut him off without regard for the other rider's line. The wheel in front argument is not valid here. He T-bones him basically when Tankmonkey would have no idea he was coming in. Had he run along side a bit, then turned in, there may be some validity to your point. With this closing speed and the line he took, there is not.

I think he assumed Tankmonkey would slow going into one. If you have taken that line, you may realize that that close low line is smooth (after a brief bump or two) and many can carry more speed through one because of it.

The "regular race line' depends on who you ask. MANY take the low line and argue it is faster and safer. DO NOT assume the low line rider is slower EVER, if you want to be safe.
Okay I see your point about the front wheel part, that rider didnt really show him a front wheel he just popped up and said boom. But how was he suppose to know tankmonkey was there, I dont think he had any clue

The regular race line I just took it from ty howard and brandt that showed me the same one. Also ive just heard from other people as well the high line is safer cause you can watch out for other riders better. And I feel like this video is backing that up pretty well right now.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:28 AM   #32
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Quote:
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I don't think I was riding unpredictably or erratically and I'm pretty sure I was on a 'normal' low line for that corner. But y'all can see and decide for yourselves - I'm certainly willing to listen to a well reasoned critique. Lord knows I'm still learning stuff every time I go out on the track...
The responsibility is always of the one who's passing unless you are riding unpredictably or erratically which you were not! We race against each other on the 250's and we played together with our 600's before I know how consistent and good of a rider your are. That was uncalled for... I hope you get an apology and reimbursement for all your trouble.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:29 AM   #33
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Quote:
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Okay I see your point about the front wheel part, that rider didnt really show him a front wheel he just popped up and said boom. But how was he suppose to know tankmonkey was there, I dont think he had any clue

The regular race line I just took it from ty howard and brandt that showed me the same one. Also ive just heard from other people as well the high line is safer cause you can watch out for other riders better. And I feel like this video is backing that up pretty well right now.
You counter yourself a bit if you read the bold.

Yes, you can see more higher up and I like to take it at times for that reason as well to mix things up. He knows TM was there because he was approaching from the highline that allows you to see everything (as you just pointed out), especially a bike you are overtaking from a higher vantage point.

I am saying that there is not ONE race line, there are many at a track like TWS (Texas World Speedway). Opinions vary. DO NOT ASSUME A LOW LINE IS SLOWER. I see riders take the highline then PARK it before diving in because their nads shrink. TM (and others) run the low line because on their bikes, they can maintain a higher speed continuously through the turn.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:29 AM   #34
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Quote:
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Okay I see your point about the front wheel part, that rider didnt really show him a front wheel he just popped up and said boom. But how was he suppose to know tankmonkey was there, I dont think he had any clue

The regular race line I just took it from ty howard and brandt that showed me the same one. Also ive just heard from other people as well the high line is safer cause you can watch out for other riders better. And I feel like this video is backing that up pretty well right now.
Let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly, the higher line(which the other rider took) has better visibility to look for other riders, but he couldn't be expected to see a rider on the low line(tank monkey)?

I agree the other rider didn't see TM but only because he wasn't looking.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:30 AM   #35
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, ridesmart is holding events at ECR and TWS (Texas World Speedway) on the same weekend? -Cody
??? how is that possible?
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:33 AM   #36
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Quote:
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The regular race line I just took it from ty howard and brandt that showed me the same one. Also ive just heard from other people as well the high line is safer cause you can watch out for other riders better. And I feel like this video is backing that up pretty well right now.
Odd, I've heard directly from Ty's mouth to take the low line.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:33 AM   #37
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Mistake on track org
Cody and Rod -
He already acknowledged the error.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:33 AM   #38
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That rider was already passed tank monkey at that point, well his point of vision at least

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Old 10-07-2014, 09:37 AM   #39
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That rider was already passed tank monkey at that point.


He didn't pass him. He collided with him. Had he passed him, he wouldn't have had an impact.

About a fraction of a second (literally) before he hit him, he appeared to his right.

EDIT: I've said all I can, I'll leave it for others from this point forward.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:37 AM   #40
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Quote:
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That rider was already passed tank monkey at that point, well his point of vision at least

His responsibility is to make the ENTIRE PASS safely. Not just up-to-the-point-I-can't-see-him-anymore. ESPECIALLY because this is a trackday.
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