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Old 10-01-2014, 10:34 AM   #41
tyler83
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I will be there Friday night, camping all weekend long as we always do..

Come on out and find us or pm me with you cell and I'll send mine to you..

Silver 15' Chevy 2500 pulling an MXT toy hauler
Sounds good, and thank you
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:38 AM   #42
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What is the model designation for these bikes? I know nothing about the letter-vomit that descrives dirties.




I've got everything except boots from my tard days.



I will probably be buying a bike in late december as that's when my yearly bonus pays out.

Models are XC (cross country) XCW (cross country woods) of course these are ktm models only, most people just ride regular ole MX bikes which have a few extras added on by the purchaser such as hand guards, rekluse clutches etc.
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:44 AM   #43
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Quote:
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Models are XC (cross country) XCW (cross country woods) of course these are ktm models only, most people just ride regular ole MX bikes which have a few extras added on by the purchaser such as hand guards, rekluse clutches etc.

what is an exc, then? And a rekluse clutch is a semi-auto correct?
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:46 AM   #44
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You can lug the 250F, and most 4 strokes hate starting when hot, just watch some of our race starts, some guys are kicking multiple times to get going, by then, the crowd is gone. I'd personally go with a 2t or a 4t with E-start..

And BTW, speaking of top ends, maint. and KTM's, I bought a brand new 13' 200 XCW and raced and rode for just over 120 clock hours, I never even changed the spark plug, had zero starting, running issues with it at all. I sold it recently but suggested to the new owner to seek out a top end job just in case.

As for suspensions and woods/mx specific bikes, I ride the SX which is a motocross bike, I had CSR build my suspension and it works well for me in both applications, and I know of plenty people who ride the KTM XC's (Cross country models) for woods and racing in MX and do quite well.

Just recently, a B riders (Off road racer) 450f had a bent rotor, someone offered his 250f to him for the race but the 450 guy said it wasn't fast enough, well, truth be told, the 450 guy can't ride the 250 to it's limits much less the 450 that hard and fast so, don't let the size of the bike fool you..

Kailub Russell (2013/2014 GNCC off road champion) will be riding the last two rounds on a 14' 150SX and I bet you anything that he wins the races vs all others on the 350 and 450 cc bikes.

Suspension really is the key, along with your mental capacity to go fast by twisting the throttle, making smart line choices, and having some skill at what you do.

I have 100 or so hours of training with Pro Factory riders over the last few years, that has helped me out tremendously. Every year I spend at least 5, 8 hour days working with Steve Hatch and he's the man in my book.

Don't allow anyone to point you in the wrong direction, dirt riding whether it be MX or offroad is no different that road racing or street riding, trackday riding, just b/c you bought the latest and greatest 1000cc bike, or the newest $23000 Ducati, neither of those will make you a faster rider than those with experience.

I started racing on a Honda CRF150R, (yes it's a super-mini and it's plenty fast) I was getting beat by others on 85 2T bikes, but on the other hand, I was also beating guys on 250F's too. It isn't just about the size of the engine at all. Find a bike that suits you well in all aspects and that's the bike for you.

Any of you guys are welcome to ride any bike we have and we have several to chose from too. My 250SX has a 2.8 gallon tank, steering damper, kickstand, 18" rear wheel/tire, cut down bars and a rekluse clutch, it's not much of a mx bike but this past weekend I raced the 2nd round of the District 20 MX series and did finish 2nd position in my last moto which gave me a 4th place overall, this was my second ever MX race and it is intense and extremely dangerous.
There are so many choices it is a little overwhelming lol. I think it will probably come down to what is the nicest, best shape bike I can buy in my budget. Looking forward to checking all this out.
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:52 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler83 View Post
There are so many choices it is a little overwhelming lol. I think it will probably come down to what is the nicest, best shape bike I can buy in my budget. Looking forward to checking all this out.
I'm kinda in the same boat, but I want a 2 stroke just so I have some experience with them.
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Old 10-01-2014, 11:02 AM   #46
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two stroke all the way in my opinion....a little tougher to ride in the woods vs a 4stroke b/c you have to stay on the pipe, but they are just stupid quick in between tight sections.
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Old 10-01-2014, 11:18 AM   #47
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two stroke all the way in my opinion....a little tougher to ride in the woods vs a 4stroke b/c you have to stay on the pipe, but they are just stupid quick in between tight sections.
So do you gear them down a bit to help them stay on the pipe easier?
what kind of speeds do you hit in the open sections? Do you get into high gear?
I've always been a 2 stroke fan, all i've had really. but when I got back into dirt this time, I bought a 400ex and am kind of in love with the torque right off of idle, doesnt sound near as cool though
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Old 10-01-2014, 11:44 AM   #48
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So do you gear them down a bit to help them stay on the pipe easier?
what kind of speeds do you hit in the open sections? Do you get into high gear?
I've always been a 2 stroke fan, all i've had really. but when I got back into dirt this time, I bought a 400ex and am kind of in love with the torque right off of idle, doesnt sound near as cool though
I raced a 97 kx250 and then an 05 YZ250, both with stock gearing as far as I know. I pretty much stayed in second gear in all tight woods sections, with an occassional shift to 3rd when in a creek bed or similar. When you get to really tight sections where the bars are bouncing off trees for several minutes, I would pull clutch in and blip the throttle to ensure that I didn't foul a plug. In fact, never fouled a plug on either bike. It's only a problem if you never get on the pipe. Only time I left 3rd gear was in open plains sections. I'd bet the average speed of a hare scramble is probably around 20-25 mph combined....open sections maybe hit 50 mph?

all this dirt talk makes me want another bike, but then I think about the pain associated with another knee injury....just not worth it for me. Hare scrambles, by far, are the best bang for buck when it comes to the cost of racing (except maybe TMGP racing). The fun factor is pretty cool too because it involves log crossings, jumps, occasional wheelies, etc.

Last edited by dbuck; 10-01-2014 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:42 PM   #49
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Quote:
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I raced a 97 kx250 and then an 05 YZ250, both with stock gearing as far as I know. I pretty much stayed in second gear in all tight woods sections, with an occassional shift to 3rd when in a creek bed or similar. When you get to really tight sections where the bars are bouncing off trees for several minutes, I would pull clutch in and blip the throttle to ensure that I didn't foul a plug. In fact, never fouled a plug on either bike. It's only a problem if you never get on the pipe. Only time I left 3rd gear was in open plains sections. I'd bet the average speed of a hare scramble is probably around 20-25 mph combined....open sections maybe hit 50 mph?

all this dirt talk makes me want another bike, but then I think about the pain associated with another knee injury....just not worth it for me. Hare scrambles, by far, are the best bang for buck when it comes to the cost of racing (except maybe TMGP racing). The fun factor is pretty cool too because it involves log crossings, jumps, occasional wheelies, etc.
I'd honestly say if you're doing 20MPH as an average, those are fast AA/Pro rider times, mine are normally between the 12-17 mph range and I'm not that fast compared to the top 5-6 pro riders. This info is based on my heart rate/fitness data from my Polar RC3 HR watch/monitor.

I've topped a couple of mine out at around the 70-75mph range in the wide open areas, depending on the length of the opening. And most people are probably doing most of their racing in gears 2-3, especially in the woods, If you want to lug then gears 3-4 work best but, you're not going anywhere quick until you get used to riding in the woods and learn to look past every tree on the trail.

You basically scan the areas ahead of you, pick a line and stick to it, trying not to focus too much on obstacles, I've ridden just about everything there is to ride as far as terrain. I raced the TKO (Tennessee Knock Out extreme Enduro) this year and the rocks were just perverse in size, the hill climbs were ridiculous.

I've done things on my dirt bike that you shouldn't be able to do on one, you just have to have a lot of commitment when racing and trust the bike, the tires and most of all, have confidence in yourself to be able to complete the actions you intend to act upon.

As far as gearing the bike, most people will run stock gearing 13/48 or 14/48, every once in a while, i'll change up to a 14/52 if I feel like I need more on the bottom end (like some steep hill climbs).

Another important note is to learn to ride standing up, the only time you should be sitting is when negotiating turns, now this is very opinionated from rider to rider, skill level to skill level but what I have found is that the more you sit, the faster you tire. There are a ton of small techniques to help you in all sorts of situations..

I could literally go on for hours here, sorry for the lengthy replies.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:46 PM   #50
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I'd honestly say if you're doing 20MPH as an average, those are fast AA/Pro rider times, mine are normally between the 12-17 mph range and I'm not that fast compared to the top 5-6 pro riders. This info is based on my heart rate/fitness data from my Polar RC3 HR watch/monitor.

I've topped a couple of mine out at around the 70-75mph range in the wide open areas, depending on the length of the opening. And most people are probably doing most of their racing in gears 2-3, especially in the woods, If you want to lug then gears 3-4 work best but, you're not going anywhere quick until you get used to riding in the woods and learn to look past every tree on the trail.

You basically scan the areas ahead of you, pick a line and stick to it, trying not to focus too much on obstacles, I've ridden just about everything there is to ride as far as terrain. I raced the TKO (Tennessee Knock Out extreme Enduro) this year and the rocks were just perverse in size, the hill climbs were ridiculous.

I've done things on my dirt bike that you shouldn't be able to do on one, you just have to have a lot of commitment when racing and trust the bike, the tires and most of all, have confidence in yourself to be able to complete the actions you intend to act upon.

As far as gearing the bike, most people will run stock gearing 13/48 or 14/48, every once in a while, i'll change up to a 14/52 if I feel like I need more on the bottom end (like some steep hill climbs).

Another important note is to learn to ride standing up, the only time you should be sitting is when negotiating turns, now this is very opinionated from rider to rider, skill level to skill level but what I have found is that the more you sit, the faster you tire. There are a ton of small techniques to help you in all sorts of situations..

I could literally go on for hours here, sorry for the lengthy replies.
Don't apoligize, I'm loving the lengthy replies, you seem like a wealth of knowledge and i'm trying to soak in as mush as I can.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:54 PM   #51
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Check out these results for the last TORN race I competed in for an idea of average racing speeds

http://www.tornracing.com/results.html (Race 1406 in Edgewood)

Also, the results for race 1401 in Boyd, I won the over 38 Expert class race with an average speed of 23.13 mph, the Pro riders were running 4-5 mph faster average laps than I was, again, this was a huge outdoor motocross type course and my jumping skills are lacking skill and technique as well as knowledge.

Choose "Lap times" for average speeds in the Sportsman Expert class, the top 2 guys are some of the faster AA/Pro riders in the series but, not THE fastest.

The Sportsman Expert race is on Saturday so it consists of Pro's and A/B riders.

The TORN series is more like a huge outdoor motocross race with small jumps, it's wide open, fast and not a whole lot of woods sections, I did have some cramping issues for this round.


Keep in mind, this is only my 3rd year of riding in the dirt, I'd say I'm doing pretty good.
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Old 10-01-2014, 02:05 PM   #52
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TORN Boyd 38 Expert race
http://youtu.be/yykepjdQ51g?list=UUp...COzLbLHK8nzsVQ


TORCS Skull Creek Sundays 40A race
I was running in 2nd place till I crashed and hurt my hand bad enough that I could not grasp the bar to ride.
http://youtu.be/aIhh423iQaQ?list=UUp...COzLbLHK8nzsVQ
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Old 10-01-2014, 02:12 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbonJames View Post
Check out these results for the last TORN race I competed in for an idea of average racing speeds

http://www.tornracing.com/results.html (Race 1406 in Edgewood)

Also, the results for race 1401 in Boyd, I won the over 38 Expert class race with an average speed of 23.13 mph, the Pro riders were running 4-5 mph faster average laps than I was, again, this was a huge outdoor motocross type course and my jumping skills are lacking skill and technique as well as knowledge.

Choose "Lap times" for average speeds in the Sportsman Expert class, the top 2 guys are some of the faster AA/Pro riders in the series but, not THE fastest.

The Sportsman Expert race is on Saturday so it consists of Pro's and A/B riders.

The TORN series is more like a huge outdoor motocross race with small jumps, it's wide open, fast and not a whole lot of woods sections, I did have some cramping issues for this round.


Keep in mind, this is only my 3rd year of riding in the dirt, I'd say I'm doing pretty good.
I wasn't too far off then....depends on the course and skill set of said rider. so, a D rider might avg. 10-12 mph. You guys that are serious about checking this out need to hang with James for a weekend. From the laughs around the toy hauler, to him picking on you at your own expense, and the info he has from the past few years of racing is unmeasurable. I've never seen someone advance as fast as James has, then again he NEVER misses a race within his reach (with the exception of maybe Brandt in relation to roadracing). He is, indeed, a wealth of info who takes his racing seriously (heart monitors, toy haulers, more bikes than he can operate at one time, etc.)....not to mention a nice guy too! get out there, you won't regret it....

disclaimer, be ready to feel like you're going to die after your first race! the cardio is stupid intense! and remember it's an hour long race....be smooth and consistent, picking up your bike over and over will take it out of you....even moreso if it's hanging up in a tree.
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Old 10-01-2014, 02:35 PM   #54
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TORN Boyd 38 Expert race
http://youtu.be/yykepjdQ51g?list=UUp...COzLbLHK8nzsVQ


TORCS Skull Creek Sundays 40A race
I was running in 2nd place till I crashed and hurt my hand bad enough that I could not grasp the bar to ride.
http://youtu.be/aIhh423iQaQ?list=UUp...COzLbLHK8nzsVQ
I just watched a lot of your video's, I have a feeling this is going to be addicting.
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Old 10-01-2014, 02:45 PM   #55
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Here is my fitness data from my last race, a race in which I won by just 1.8 seconds.

https://www.polarpersonaltrainer.com...64b82dab75802d

It's pretty intense racing and I really need to see the Dr about my HR being so high for an average, a close friend and I are the exact same everything as far as personal stats and my numbers are always quite a bit higher than his, Especially my average HR, it stays higher for longer periods of time. While I am faster than him, I also ride harder for longer than he does as well.
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Old 10-01-2014, 02:54 PM   #56
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Quote:
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Check out these results for the last TORN race I competed in for an idea of average racing speeds

http://www.tornracing.com/results.html (Race 1406 in Edgewood)

Also, the results for race 1401 in Boyd, I won the over 38 Expert class race with an average speed of 23.13 mph, the Pro riders were running 4-5 mph faster average laps than I was, again, this was a huge outdoor motocross type course and my jumping skills are lacking skill and technique as well as knowledge.

Choose "Lap times" for average speeds in the Sportsman Expert class, the top 2 guys are some of the faster AA/Pro riders in the series but, not THE fastest.

The Sportsman Expert race is on Saturday so it consists of Pro's and A/B riders.

The TORN series is more like a huge outdoor motocross race with small jumps, it's wide open, fast and not a whole lot of woods sections, I did have some cramping issues for this round.


Keep in mind, this is only my 3rd year of riding in the dirt, I'd say I'm doing pretty good.
I'm in my third year too and am stupid slow. That's depressing. Don't ride much though, hopefully now that my daughter is getting a bit older I will be able to ride more this coming year. Was riding mx weekly and sometimes biweekly earlier in the year and got twice as fast in just a few months. Looking forward to some more progression like that this coming year.
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Old 10-01-2014, 03:16 PM   #57
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I'm in my third year too and am stupid slow. That's depressing. Don't ride much though, hopefully now that my daughter is getting a bit older I will be able to ride more this coming year. Was riding mx weekly and sometimes biweekly earlier in the year and got twice as fast in just a few months. Looking forward to some more progression like that this coming year.
MX speed doesn't really convert to OR speed though, keep that in mind. The main reason I ride MX is for the jumping practice alone, I still love to hit the woods and the ONLY reason I have been racing MX is for the adrenaline rush, I have trouble just "riding" so I need to put myself through the paces and get into a racing scenario/environment in order to help keep my speed up.

Hope to see some of you guys start coming out to race with us..

Key player in getting fast is seat time in the proper environment, I don't know of any MX riders training in the woods!!
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Old 10-01-2014, 03:57 PM   #58
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James is a bit more serious than I ever want to be. I just want a way to stay bikefit for CMRA during the off-season.
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Old 10-01-2014, 04:08 PM   #59
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James is a bit more serious than I ever want to be. I just want a way to stay bikefit for CMRA during the off-season.
Come on out, I'll pay for your first race!!!! You tell me if this will help keep you in shape for CMRA, I promise you it will be more than enough.

And yes, I am extremely serious and very focused on my racing "habit". For me to make the commitment to moving into the AA/Pro class, I need to be as focused as possible, it is a seriously competitive class, not that all of the others aren't but, it will definitely be on a whole other level of fast riding, we too have a couple of those rare "MotoGP Alien" riders in the off-road racing scene.
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Old 10-01-2014, 04:37 PM   #60
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Come on out, I'll pay for your first race!!!! You tell me if this will help keep you in shape for CMRA, I promise you it will be more than enough.

And yes, I am extremely serious and very focused on my racing "habit". For me to make the commitment to moving into the AA/Pro class, I need to be as focused as possible, it is a seriously competitive class, not that all of the others aren't but, it will definitely be on a whole other level of fast riding, we too have a couple of those rare "MotoGP Alien" riders in the off-road racing scene.
I'll hit you up at the end of the year. As I said earlier in the thread, I won't be picking up a bike till december when my bonus pays out.
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A motorcycle is a joy machine. It's a machine of wonders, a metal bird, a motorized prosthetic. It's light and dark and shiny and dirty and warm and cold lapping over each other; it's a conduit of grace, it's a catalyst for bonding the gritty and the holy.

CMRA #302
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