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Old 09-05-2014, 07:03 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkansasDave View Post
And how do you plan on defending the level 3 rider that did the same thing? I have actually seen that happen a couple of times going into turn 10.
That's what I was saying. I wasn't defending anyone. They should have never been that close anyway. it was a novice group I don't see how anyone could expect a novice to save that let alone a pro. I'm talking about scrubbing speed while the rear is already airborne. The whole situation was preventable.
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:05 AM   #162
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seems like the moto gp guys get the rear up easily when doing over 100mph. or is is the wind from the rider that is behind them causing all of this
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:09 AM   #163
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:21 AM   #164
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We all know them moto GP riders are controlled by magnets under the track.
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:33 AM   #165
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^^ now its a physics lesson!! lmao!
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:34 AM   #166
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:35 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuong-nutz View Post
We all know them moto GP riders are controlled by magnets under the track.
why do their rears come up? a bad magnet
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:48 AM   #168
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why do their rears come up? a bad magnet
polarity swap. Goes from pull to push to look cooler. duh.
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:49 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_5.0 View Post
seems like the moto gp guys get the rear up easily when doing over 100mph. or is is the wind from the rider that is behind them causing all of this
Never said it wasn't possible to do it at high speeds only that it is easier at slower speeds. Also motogp riders will usually have their back tires come up later in the braking zone when they have slowed down more.
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:51 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkansasDave View Post
Never said it wasn't possible to do it at high speeds only that it is easier at slower speeds. Also motogp riders will usually have their back tires come up later in the braking zone when they have slowed down more.
What do you think the riders in the video on the op's post should have done differently?
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:52 AM   #171
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polarity swap. Goes from pull to push to look cooler. duh.
now i understand
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:06 AM   #172
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The Moto GP guys are threshold braking. They are controlling the rate of weight transfer to the front contact patch for max braking effort. Just Grabbing a handful of brake on a modern ABS equipped bike is pointless, the system will detect the rate of application as being well above (PANIC or NEBBIE ness) threshold and modulate it before you get much transfer at all. Do what we all are doing on track, which is squeeze the brake progressively harder to max pressure transferring the weight and compressing the suspension and you can get the rear in the air on any bike that allows differences in rear and front wheel sensor speeds. Play that process out and you can still go over the bars. The Diavel has ABS and long wheel base and I know for sure you can stoppie it! Look how long the white and green bikes are on the brakes before they go over, they are both already out of fork travel when the realize they need more decel, squeeze on a bit more and over they go. Red bike was already on the binders for the corner when suddenly there was a dude on the ground in front of her, forks compress, bottom out, rear comes up, body stays forward, CG passes front axis of rotation and over she goes. Forks decompress bike shoots in the air. SAME process for all of them, ABS would not have kicked in for any of them, because while fast and over aggressive, none of them locked the front wheel or braked hard enough to, nor was the rate of application of the brakes enough to tell an ABS hey they are if you give them what they are asking for it will result in a locked front brake so modulate it for them.

A physics genius would not refer to aerodynamic drag as wind because they are entirely different things. One can have a tail or cross WIND and still experience aerodynamic drag. The drag being a function of the drag coefficient of the shape of the body traveling through the medium( in this case the atmosphere) and the density and viscosity of said medium. Since we are talking about masses in motion and how they respond to various forces both static and dynamic we should understand that the drag experienced by the rider once rotation about the pivot point of the front contact patch has begun is already insufficient to overcome the inertia of said machine and rider regardless of velocity. The only thing that will prevent the rider from going over the bars once past the balance point is moving the pivot point forward so that the CG moves back to a point on a line that trails the afro mention pivot point. But I'm no genius.
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:23 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r6racer View Post
What do you think the riders in the video on the op's post should have done differently?
In lvl 1? Being on the line would have helped, but build straight away speeds based on your ability to corner not on the ability to twist the throttle. Sure you can go 160 down the straight bit but what's the point if you don't know where or when to brake to make the 60mph corner at the end. Especially if you can only take that 60mph corner at 40mph. SLOW the heck down.

Head and eyes up, slows sense of speed, look thru the riders in front of you, helps reduce panic and provides better sense of closing speed.

Have a plan for getting by riders early. Plan on them being unpredictable so slow enough to make a safe pass even if they do something unexpected.

Look where you want to go not at the thing you are trying to avoid. White bike had room on the outside to still brake without contact, Red bike very hard to deal with being hit from the rear, but she also had room on the inside to get by.

I read somewhere may have been ToWII that riders only improve when riding at 75% of their capacity. Either way you can't win a track day so ride at speeds that let you hit your spots right on and still have a few mental cycles for the unexpected.


Green bike in lvl 3, I'm not good enough to ride lvl 3 so I'd be interested to hear some more advance techniques.

Last edited by Classax; 09-05-2014 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:51 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r6racer View Post
What do you think the riders in the video on the op's post should have done differently?
Not dive bombed a rider and back out. Also look ahead to know there is slow moving traffic ahead.

Classax, you misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not saying aerodynamic drag would have helped or prevented this. Hostility said it's easier to endo at 80mph vs 20mph, I disproved that. I'm not sure why you are nit picking my terminology.

As a side note as far as force acted on an object, it does not matter if the air is still and the object goes through at 80 mph or the object is still and there is an 80mph head wind. This simple concept is why wind tunnels work. Head winds and tail winds changes your air speed and therefore the amount of aerodynamic drag experienced by the object.

Another side note, this article disagrees that drag force is a function of viscosity. It only uses density.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_equation
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:58 AM   #175
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Is the -swinging still going on in here?

Impressive.
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:58 AM   #176
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So who's mostly at fault here?
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Old 09-05-2014, 11:08 AM   #177
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Everyone?
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Old 09-05-2014, 11:34 AM   #178
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Technically it was at a track day that has "no at fault" rules.

happens, learn from it and move on.
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Old 09-05-2014, 11:37 AM   #179
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I think that is what r6racer is trying to do. Discuss ways to prevent this accident so we can learn from others mistakes.
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Old 09-05-2014, 11:39 AM   #180
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It seems if the 2 novices has listened and applied what was taught in the riders meeting and in classroom sessions, this may not have happened.
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