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Old 09-04-2014, 11:14 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubby Racer View Post
ABS prevents endos? ABS prevents wheel lock. No lock in an endo.
Have you tried it?
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:15 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azylum View Post
then whats the point of ABS
Uh, look at the quote. He crashed a car with ABS. Can you make a car endo with or without ABS?
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:17 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevo View Post
Have you tried it?
I have not. I just rode my first ABS bike 2 weeks ago, and it was just up and down a street. I just didn't think the new bikes were equipped with a gyro (save the rsv4) which, in my head, would be needed to actively prevent endos.
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:18 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubby Racer View Post
I have not. I just rode my first ABS bike 2 weeks ago, and it was just up and down a street. I just didn't think the new bikes were equipped with a gyro (save the rsv4) which, in my head, would be needed to actively prevent endos.
See if it can be done, then. You may be the very first. Did you apply as much pressure to the brake lever as you could muster?
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:20 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevo View Post
See if it can be done, then. You may be the very first. Did you apply as much pressure to the brake lever as you could muster?
...I just rode it up and down the street...so no. And its not mine. Wouldn't want to find out the hard way that it can, indeed, endo. Nomsayin?
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:20 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubby Racer View Post
Well, let's just say that he would have hit her either way. Just at a slightly slower speed.
He didn't have to hit her, He is on the brakes a long time in that frame, He target fixated and didn't steer away from her even though there was plenty of room on the outside. A locked rear brake would have just made the situation worse for them both as his clearly overloaded mind tried to deal with not staring at what he was about to hit, trying to keep the rear down, and slow enough to avoid an accident while already hard on the brakes. To that pressure cooker a locked rear would have added at that speed little friction and a rear end kicked about as it skipped over TWS (Texas World Speedway)'s mountain range smooth pavement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevo View Post
It does if you made it endo
CLASSIC! LOL


That said ABS won't stop you from doing a stoppie or an endo. Both are caused by how quickly weight is transfered forward on to the front tire. Once you run out of fork travel and tire flex, the rear starts to pivot around axis of the front contact patch , the front wheel is still rolling so ABS doesn't care. Eventually you rise to vertical and once your combined CG passes the plane of the front axial, unless your speed is near zero you're screwed. Over you go. He made it worse by trying to steer away at the last possible moment, providing even more drag on the front tire accelerating its rate of deceleration and transferring more weight forward. What's so crazy is less than a second later she committed all the same intuitive but WRONG responses to the need to brake at high speeds.


Since my Stoppie gone wrong on the beltway 8 due to a hit and run driver, I've thought a ton about my inputs to the controls that day. I went over the bars at under 20mph, but the forks were compressed enough to still pogo the bike above me. My hands grazed her bumper as I fell. My Mistake? Had I treated the situation as a generic stoppie I could have eased off the lever a tad and carried it closer to the car, as I still had a whole bike length to stop, but I looked at the car in front of me sideways in the lane and that's where I went. Could have eased the pressure and counter steered and carried it around her, but I looked at the car so that's where I went.

Practice your threshold and aggressive braking at various speeds. Look where you want the bike to go, you already know where it is so know need to look there, and don't let panic operate the controls for you.

Last edited by Classax; 09-04-2014 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:22 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classax View Post
as it skipped over TWS (Texas World Speedway)'s mountain range smooth pavement.
I'm going to miss the ol' gal when she's gone...
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:22 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubby Racer View Post
...I just rode it up and down the street...so no. And its not mine. Wouldn't want to find out the hard way that it can, indeed, endo. Nomsayin?
Can you see the list of bikes I've owned under my screen name? Nomsayin?
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:23 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevo View Post
Can you see the list of bikes I've owned under my screen name? Nomsayin?

I can. Doesn't mean you've tried to endo them.
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:24 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classax View Post
He didn't have to hit her, He is on the brakes a long time in that frame, He target fixated and didn't steer away from her even though there was plenty of room on the outside. A locked rear brake would have just made the situation worse for them both as his clearly overloaded mind tried to deal with not staring at what he was about to hit, trying to keep the rear down, and slow enough to avoid an accident while already hard on the brakes. To that pressure cooker a locked rear would have added at that speed little friction and a rear end kicked about as it skipped over TWS (Texas World Speedway)'s mountain range smooth pavement.




CLASSIC! LOL


That said ABS won't stop you from doing a stoppie or an endo. Both are caused by how quickly weight is transfered forward on to the front tire. Once you run out of fork travel and tire flex, the rear starts to pivot around axis of the front contact patch , the front wheel is still rolling so ABS doesn't care. Eventually you rise to vertical and once your combined CG passes the plane of the front axial, unless your speed is near zero you're screwed. Over you go. He made it worse by trying to steer away at the last possible moment, providing even more drag on the front tire accelerating its rate of deceleration and transferring more weight forward. What's so crazy is less than a second later she committed all the same intuitive but WRONG responses to the need to brake at high speeds.


Since my Stoppie gone wrong on the beltway 8 due to a hit and run driver, I've thought a ton about my inputs to the controls that day. I went over the bars at under 20mph, but the forks were compressed enough to still pogo the bike above me. My hands grazed her bumper as I fell. My Mistake? Had I treated the situation as a generic stoppie I could have eased off the lever a tad and carried it closer to the car, as I still had a whole bike length to stop, but I looked at the car in front of me sideways in the lane and that's where I went. Could have eased the pressure and counter steered and carried it around her, but I looked at the car so that's where I went.

Practice your threshold and aggressive braking at various speeds. Look where you want the bike to go, you already know where it is so know need to look there, and don't let panic operate the controls for you.
I guess you should have been on a Honda. I've grabbed the brake as hard as I could, all the bikes did was stop
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:24 AM   #91
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he should have never decided to ride a motorcycle to prevent this from happening.
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:26 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubby Racer View Post
I can. Doesn't mean you've tried to endo them.
I don't think the three that crashed at TWS (Texas World Speedway) were attempting an endo. I've applied as much pressure to the brake as a I could. All the bikes did was stop
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:32 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevo View Post
I've applied as much pressure to the brake as a I could. All the bikes did was stop
I'll take your word for it. I wonder what logic honda is using to accomplish that sans gyro?
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:38 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubby Racer View Post
I'll take your word for it. I wonder what logic honda is using to accomplish that sans gyro?
Maybe endos don't happen like you think they do. CraigRR has ABS on his CBR. Maybe you could give his bike a try
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:43 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevo View Post
I guess you should have been on a Honda. I've grabbed the brake as hard as I could, all the bikes did was stop
don't blame me for your penchant for bikes' with weak brakes or your weak grip. JK

Its not so much how hard, its how fast one grabs the brakes. Squeeze them and you slow to a stop. Grab them and the BIKE will slow but the RIDER sitting atop it will not. Over you go.


In my case I was already carying the stoppie and slowing comfortably it wasn't until the car STOPPED sideways in front of me which ate up all my attention and forced me to hand the controls to old man panic, whom we all know is a ham fisted rider.

ABS bikes can do stoppies,( depending on the how the software and sensors are wired, since SOME bikes allow for differences in front vs rear wheel sensor speed)
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:44 AM   #96
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He was just tryin to get a good look at her and it went wrong.....thats all
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:46 AM   #97
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Quote:
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I'll take your word for it. I wonder what logic honda is using to accomplish that sans gyro?
No gyros. Just needs to see a difference in wheel speed to indicate the rear is off the ground.
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:46 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevo View Post
Maybe endos don't happen like you think they do.
I'm fairly certain they happen like I think they do. Honda probably just has some indirect way of detecting them that's not immediately obvious to me.
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:47 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post
No gyros. Just needs to see a difference in wheel speed to indicate the rear is off the ground.

And there's the indirect method. It's probably slightly more complicated than that, but that's the gist.
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:51 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubby Racer View Post
I'm fairly certain they happen like I think they do. Honda probably just has some indirect way of detecting them that's not immediately obvious to me.
Pretty sure the only sensor is the ring on the front and rear wheels, but I could be wrong. I know that in 2009 Honda was the first to put ABS on a supersport
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