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Old 09-05-2014, 11:42 AM   #181
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Right and that can probably be said of 90% of the accidents out there. This thread could probably best be served by stating what specifically they didn't follow. As classax and I stated a few post back the main problem was probably not looking ahead to assess the situation. It got to a panic situation and went to quickly after.
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Old 09-05-2014, 11:57 AM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classax View Post
Remember, I've had bikes with ABS, I'm not against it. In fact that's why I'm confident ABS would not have saved me or them, due to the way the weight was transferred during the panic stops. In neither case would the ABS had any reason to activate until it was far too late.
What bikes did you have with ABS? Ever tested a CBR with ABS? It's hard to be objective when you're having an "oh " moment.
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:09 PM   #183
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No worries ArkansasDave, I know you know your stuff, its just that coming from an aviation back ground, I've seen people get wind and aerodynamic forces specifically drag and lift confused with really bad consequences. So I tend not let it slide. Sorry force of habit. Viscosity comes into play when you start calculating parasitic drag as you already know not only is affects how easily the medium moves over the surface of the object but also how easily it separates to allow the object to pass through. Again sorry, force of habit. All good bro!
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:22 PM   #184
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Hope they recover quickly.

Physics professors.. don't forget to plug in gravity- friction- angular & linear momentum- and moment of force multipliers into your formula. We wouldn't want anyone getting a B on their science project.
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:22 PM   #185
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Yeah I was also trying to dumb it down for business/political science majors.
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:32 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubby Racer View Post
Still possible to endo. Problem not solved.
not going to endo if you lock the rear, modulate the front.
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:35 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Japawhat02 View Post
That's what I was saying. I wasn't defending anyone. They should have never been that close anyway. it was a novice group I don't see how anyone could expect a novice to save that let alone a pro. I'm talking about scrubbing speed while the rear is already airborne. The whole situation was preventable.
scrub with the rear first
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:39 PM   #188
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Quote:
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What do you think the riders in the video on the op's post should have done differently?
first guy should have locked his rear brakes on that straight, but tracker teaches you not to use them. should have taught how to brake in the straights.
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:43 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solracer View Post
Is the -swinging still going on in here?

Impressive.
just this scooter guy teaching trackers how not to endo when braking.

and this thing called a rear brake they always seem to forget.
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:46 PM   #190
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I believe from 60-0 mph using the front only stops you in about 130ft and front and rear does it in 124ft. The rear only was something much higher than that. I doubt any amount of rear brake would have saved this. Looking ahead and watching the riders in front of you probably would though.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:07 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMAX View Post
not going to endo if you lock the rear, modulate the front.
Do you realize how incredibly little braking is accomplished with a locked rear? And do you also realize that it DOESN'T preclude an endo at all? Of course he SHOULD have modulated the front, but that's easier said than done in a panic situation.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:33 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkansasDave View Post
Not dive bombed a rider and back out. Also look ahead to know there is slow moving traffic ahead.

Classax, you misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not saying aerodynamic drag would have helped or prevented this. Hostility said it's easier to endo at 80mph vs 20mph, I disproved that. I'm not sure why you are nit picking my terminology.

As a side note as far as force acted on an object, it does not matter if the air is still and the object goes through at 80 mph or the object is still and there is an 80mph head wind. This simple concept is why wind tunnels work. Head winds and tail winds changes your air speed and therefore the amount of aerodynamic drag experienced by the object.

Another side note, this article disagrees that drag force is a function of viscosity. It only uses density.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_equation

No matter how smart u try to prove yourself on the interwebs, nothing you said applies to avoiding this rider's crash. You're thinking way over ur smartass. This isn't a jet going Mach one or a bullet through air. Your comments may be more relevant to that. the rider shoulda went faster so he'll have more drag and saved himself right? And who in this thread mentioned anything about majors? And I just slammed my front breaks at 20mph nothin happened, best believe I'm not dumb to try the same hauling thinking I'm less susceptible to flipping over cos of "drag". Lmaooooo!

Now post another long scientific rubbish comment explaining what happens to the mass of the bike plus him on top and their combined velocity at both those speeds and what shoulda saved him when he had to slow down drastically in such short distance. All your comments with math nonsense is useless here, boy.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:40 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubby Racer View Post
Do you realize how incredibly little braking is accomplished with a locked rear? And do you also realize that it DOESN'T preclude an endo at all? Of course he SHOULD have modulated the front, but that's easier said than done in a panic situation.
He doesn't understand basic physics. It's just best to let it go.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:45 PM   #194
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Well I never said it applied to avoiding this crash. Only that it's easier to endo at a slower speed than at a faster one.

You're anecdotal evidence of slamming on your brakes at 20 mph means nothing and proves nothing.

The fact that my simple 7th grade level math sounds like nonsense to you proves even more how stupid you truly are.

Also in the post you quoted me in I said "look ahead to know there is slower moving traffic ahead" that is in fact a solution that would have avoided this situation.
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Old 09-05-2014, 02:03 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkansasDave View Post
Well I never said it applied to avoiding this crash. Only that it's easier to endo at a slower speed than at a faster one.

You're anecdotal evidence of slamming on your brakes at 20 mph means nothing and proves nothing.

The fact that my simple 7th grade level math sounds like nonsense to you proves even more how stupid you truly are.

Also in the post you quoted me in I said "look ahead to know there is slower moving traffic ahead" that is in fact a solution that would have avoided this situation.

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Old 09-05-2014, 02:04 PM   #196
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Quote:
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No matter how smart u try to prove yourself on the interwebs, nothing you said applies to avoiding this rider's crash. You're thinking way over ur smartass. This isn't a jet going Mach one or a bullet through air. Your comments may be more relevant to that. the rider shoulda went faster so he'll have more drag and saved himself right? And who in this thread mentioned anything about majors? And I just slammed my front breaks at 20mph nothin happened, best believe I'm not dumb to try the same hauling thinking I'm less susceptible to flipping over cos of "drag". Lmaooooo!

Now post another long scientific rubbish comment explaining what happens to the mass of the bike plus him on top and their combined velocity at both those speeds and what shoulda saved him when he had to slow down drastically in such short distance. All your comments with math nonsense is useless here, boy.
Your screen name fits bro. You really need to work on that...
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Old 09-05-2014, 02:07 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkansasDave View Post
I believe from 60-0 mph using the front only stops you in about 130ft and front and rear does it in 124ft. The rear only was something much higher than that. I doubt any amount of rear brake would have saved this. Looking ahead and watching the riders in front of you probably would though.
same could be said for the level3 rider entering the chicane....I know I can see 14 through my peripheral as I approach T13.
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Old 09-05-2014, 02:08 PM   #198
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What's the meme for "you're retarded"? When you resort to meme's instead of good concrete logic based on science then it just makes you look even more retarded.

Good luck with business calculus.
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Old 09-05-2014, 02:09 PM   #199
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Quote:
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same could be said for the level3 rider entering the chicane....I know I can see 14 through my peripheral as I approach T13.
Agreed, most multi rider accidents good probably use more looking ahead. Level 3 did have someone crash right in front of him. He was already in the turn before the other rider crashed.
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Old 09-05-2014, 02:16 PM   #200
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Quote:
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Well I never said it applied to avoiding this crash. Only that it's easier to endo at a slower speed than at a faster one.
I would tend to disagree with you based on momentum and center of gravity relative to the axis of rotation, in this case the front axle. While I'm sure drag imposes some opposing force on the rider / motorcycle, I don't think it's nearly enough to state that it's "easier" to induce this rotation at a lower speed.

In this case, you have both the forward momentum at the center of gravity (above the axle) moving forward, plus the force of deceleration between the ground and front tire acting at roughly 1' distance below the axle. The faster you're going, the stronger those rotational forces are going to be.
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