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Old 05-16-2007, 10:11 PM   #1
dopestatus
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Question about gun laws...

I don't have my CHL just yet, taking it in the near future. If someone was to break into my primary residence, and I shot them in self defense, I would be ok by the law, even with no CHL.
My question is: If I buy another house as an investment property and I am in there fixing up stuff and an intruder comes in, and I shoot and kill them in self defense, would I go to jail because of no CHL? If shooting someone in your own home is ok, would this not be considered my home because it's not primary? Technically, it would be my home, just not my primary.

Just curious if it's legal to bring a gun along.

Thanks
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:15 PM   #2
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^ wants to off someone, but doesnt want to the carpet in his real house, lol. j/k
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:19 PM   #3
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mike , lets go sat scoop one up, register for chl for like a month from now so you can practice with it, register you gun with the local pd (something i still need todo or do i ?)

wait on racer x , hes pretty knowledgeable about gun laws
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:22 PM   #4
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no you will not... if your on private property and have permission to carry then your ok. u don't need a chl to carry on private property on carry concealled in your vehicle.
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr pickles
u don't need a chl to carry on private property on carry concealled in your vehicle.
you sure ?

ping patrick / racer x
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:24 PM   #6
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yes i used to teach conceal hangun courses....
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GFR101
See below, you are now even protected in you car.

Criminals in Texas beware: if you threaten someone in their car or office, the citizens of this state where guns are ubiquitous have the right to shoot you dead.

Governor Rick Perry's office said on Tuesday that he had signed a new law that expands Texans' existing right to use deadly force to defend themselves "without retreat" in their homes, cars and workplaces.

"The right to defend oneself from an imminent act of harm should not only be clearly defined in Texas law, but is intuitive to human nature," Perry said on his Web site.

The new law, which takes affect on September 1, extends an exception to a statute that required a person to retreat in the face of a criminal attack. The exception was in the case of an intruder unlawfully entering a person's home.

The law extends a person's right to stand their ground beyond the home to vehicles and workplaces, allowing the reasonable use of deadly force, the governor's office said.

The reasonable use of lethal force will be allowed if an intruder is:

- Committing certain violent crimes, such as murder or sexual assault, or is attempting to commit such crimes

- Unlawfully trying to enter a protected place

Unlawfully trying to remove a person from a protected place.

The law also provides civil immunity for a person who lawfully slays an intruder or attacker in such situations.

Texas joins several other states including Florida that have or are considering similar laws.

Sympathy for violent offenders and criminals in general runs low in Texas, underscored by its busy death row. The state leads the United States in executions with 388 since the death penalty was reinstated in 1976 by the U.S. Supreme Court.

A conservative political outlook and widespread fondness for hunting also means Texans are a well-armed people capable of defending themselves with deadly force.

It is easy to acquire guns over the counter in Texas and lawful to carry a concealed handgun with a permit.
SEE>>>>>>
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GFR101
Not completely true. You can only carry it in your car if you are "traveling." To and from work and the such doesn't count. I am not sure about the "private property" exception.
look up on the the law governor perry define traveling in 05 i believe.... it is ant\ytime you are in your vehicle and going from one place to another. ill post the link in a few.
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:32 PM   #9
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It is well established in Texas that a person who is traveling has a right to possess a handgun for personal protection. The practical problem with this right has historically been that courts have disagreed on the definition of “traveling”. The legislature has likewise never defined “traveling” because a definition invariably has the unintended effect of unfairly limiting the term to a narrow set of circumstances.


HB 823 becomes effective September 1, 2005, shoring up the right of citizens to carry a concealed handgun while traveling. There have been many inquiries to my office from citizens and media regarding the upcoming change in the law and what it means.


HB 823 provides for a legal presumption in favor of citizens that they are travelers if they are in a private vehicle with a handgun that is not in plain view, they are not otherwise engaged in unlawful activity nor otherwise prohibited by law from possessing a firearm, and they are not a member of a criminal street gang.


In plain terms, a law-abiding person should not fear arrest if they are transporting a concealed pistol in a motor vehicle. There is no longer the need for a law enforcement officer to apply a subjective definition of what constitutes “traveling” where the citizen is cloaked with the presumption per the terms of the new statute. Under those circumstances the citizen should be allowed to proceed on their way.


HB 823 represents the first time a presumption has been crafted in favor of a defendant in the modern penal code of Texas. The presumption applies unless the prosecution proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the facts giving rise to the presumption do not exist. If the state fails to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the facts giving rise to the presumption do not exist, the jury must find that the presumed fact exists. By enacting this evidentiary standard in conjunction with the presumption, the legislation is intended to have the practical effect of preventing in the first place the arrest of citizens who meet the newly specified prerequisites of being a presumed traveler.


It should be noted that the very real problem of citizens having to prove their innocence after arrest by the assertion of their right to carry a firearm while traveling was the reason for a 1997 legislative change which replaced the “defense” of traveling with a classification of the statute of UCW as instead entirely “inapplicable” to a traveler. This change was well-intentioned but did not have the intended effect of protecting honest citizens from potential arrest because the term “traveling” was still left to individual police or judicial officials to define on a case-by-case basis. As a consequence, law-abiding citizens who availed themselves of their right to have a handgun while traveling continued to face arrest and often later prevailed only in a court of law after proving that they were indeed traveling.


In enacting HB 823, the 79th legislature, like all previous legislatures, declined to define traveling as a narrow set of particular circumstances. For example, to require someone to have an overnight stay in a journey in order to be classified as a traveler would be unfair to persons traveling great distances in one day. Likewise, a requirement that a citizen be “crossing county lines” may make no sense, such as in areas of Texas where travelers drive hundreds of miles without leaving a single county. Moreover, the ability of police to elicit such evidence and consistently apply its subjective terms on the street in a traffic stop has not proven practical, at all. The new statute instead focuses on a defined set of relevant, objective facts that are capable of being determined on the spot by law officers.


There are several additional important points that should be made in regard to the enactment of HB 823 and its interface with current law.


HB 823 does not give “everyone the right to carry a gun in a car”. State and federal laws applicable to firearms must be noted in conjunction with the new statute’s terms, particularly the limitation of the presumption to persons who are “not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing a firearm.” For example, persons subject to an active protective order are not covered by the presumption, nor are persons with any felony conviction or even some misdemeanor convictions for offenses, e.g., family violence. The presumption is likewise inapplicable to persons associated with a criminal street gang, even if they have no conviction for any offense. These as well as all other existing limitations on firearm ownership and/or possession make the new statute inapplicable to persons covered by such prohibitions.


Furthermore, as stated in the statute, the presumption will not apply to persons who are otherwise engaged in any criminal conduct. This would include persons who are driving while intoxicated, driving recklessly, committing criminal mischief, or committing any other criminal offense outside that of a minor traffic infraction.


The presumption also does not apply where the gun is openly displayed.


The enactment of HB 823 was the culmination of study, committee hearings and debate by the House Committee on Criminal Jurisprudence. I am confident that the new law will assist law enforcement in doing its job while at the same time protecting law-abiding citizens from the threat of arrest for merely exercising their right to arm themselves while traveling----a right to which they are already entitled.
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GFR101
Not completely true. You can only carry it in your car if you are "traveling." To and from work and the such doesn't count. I am not sure about the "private property" exception.
thats what i thought , but hey if chris taught a class i might have to go with him on that one ,i still dont pack in my car cause i dont have chl

chris, do i need to register my piece with local police , someone told me i needed todo that
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:35 PM   #11
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what if you are a convicted felon with a gun in your vehicle? if i can have one in my home, why not in my car?.....just as long as i don't carry it outside my home or car right?
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mekrew
chris, do i need to register my piece with local police , someone told me i needed todo that
no you do not
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofpain
what if you are a convicted felon with a gun in your vehicle? if i can have one in my home, why not in my car?.....just as long as i don't carry it outside my home or car right?
u can't carry concealed i know but if your not on PAPER i think you can have a firearm for self defense and hunting.
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GFR101
Good research Dr. Pickles.
thank you....i've had this arguement on about 20 different forums and on here 1-2 times.
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:42 PM   #15
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back on the topic you CAN carry on private property if you have permission from the owner. and your weapon can be used in self defense you can't just shoot ppl for tresspassing anymore. if you are in fear of your life you can use deadly force
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Old 05-16-2007, 11:27 PM   #16
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I dont care if its legal or not. I do have my CHL, however I dont give a where im at...if my life is in danger im going to shoot you...PERIOD
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Old 05-17-2007, 10:08 PM   #17
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how does this apply to guns and motorcycles?
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Old 05-18-2007, 10:14 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaZ
how does this apply to guns and motorcycles?
I was going to ask this as well....

If I don't have my CHL (yet) can I carry it in my trunk of my bike or in a jacket pocket (I would assume not in a jacket pocket, but I thought I'd still ask.)? Any LEO's on the board please chime in.
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Old 05-18-2007, 10:24 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofpain
what if you are a convicted felon with a gun in your vehicle? if i can have one in my home, why not in my car?.....just as long as i don't carry it outside my home or car right?
I was under the impression that felons could not own a gun at all. Can someone correct me if I am wrong? If they can, I'd like to know the answer to Tony's question as well.
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