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Old 04-01-2014, 05:26 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevo View Post
Then the driver's insurance would have to pay for the bike. Did it?
He has not posted about that yet. Accident happened in January .. he held the video for legal reasons (assume to fault was determined). Have to wait but he will post what happens once it is resolved. He cant help himself .. a good rant will ensue if his insurance has to pay.

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Old 04-01-2014, 05:36 PM   #42
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He blurred his speedometer for a reason. Still a dumbass.
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:31 PM   #43
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Trish, I have to agree with quick mick. If he could have easily avoided and didn't then it is his fault. Should the van have pulled out in front of the bike, no, did the van block the left lane so much to not allow a bike to go by, no.

List of bikes mistakes
Going too fast
Not looking ahead
Choosing the worst possibly choice of evasive action.
Here's why I can't agree with that.... Most of the accidents we get into on the road are somehow avoidable. If everyone was a motogp rider they may be able to avoid accidents that other people's poor driving and/or decisions put them in... so does that mean that if someone else could have easily avoided the accident, that it is then your fault?

A combination of the van and his speed put him in that position. With the video as evidence, my guess is no at fault tickets will be given. Without the video, the van will get the hit.
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:32 PM   #44
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:38 PM   #45
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Little bit of whisky throttle at the end of the crash lol
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:54 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trish View Post
Here's why I can't agree with that.... Most of the accidents we get into on the road are somehow avoidable. If everyone was a motogp rider they may be able to avoid accidents that other people's poor driving and/or decisions put them in... so does that mean that if someone else could have easily avoided the accident, that it is then your fault?

A combination of the van and his speed put him in that position. With the video as evidence, my guess is no at fault tickets will be given. Without the video, the van will get the hit.
He had plenty of time to take a much better evasive action. It's not like he was setting a land speed record through there but he was going fast enough that he would get to the intersection before anyone at that corner could see him. Essentially the van didn't see anyone so chose to go, but at the bikes speed the van couldn't get up to speed in time. Lastly no one but the biker chose to make the idiotic move of going between the van and the curb and that is what caused the accident.

As a side note my friend that is a Colorado state police officer watched the video said with the video then he would charge the bike at fault. That can be subjective though so I only put it out as that.
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:15 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkansasDave View Post
He had plenty of time to take a much better evasive action. It's not like he was setting a land speed record through there but he was going fast enough that he would get to the intersection before anyone at that corner could see him. Essentially the van didn't see anyone so chose to go, but at the bikes speed the van couldn't get up to speed in time. Lastly no one but the biker chose to make the idiotic move of going between the van and the curb and that is what caused the accident.


As a side note my friend that is a Colorado state police officer watched the video said with the video then he would charge the bike at fault.
That can be subjective though so I only put it out as that.
Why? The rider ... obviously moving faster than 30mph ... had the right of way. The Van was making a right turn on Red. The Speed at which the van rolled through the intersection is proof it did not stop before turning. It then made an illegal Right turn by moving the left lane and cutting back to the right during the course of the turn. I could see the van in the riders camera so the van if it had stopped to check for traffic would have seen the bike.

Is the rider at some fault ... legally I would say no ... but real life yeah he could have avoided the van. But if you are looking at who broke the most laws here ... Van gets the gold star. It caused the collision by entering the roadway illegally.

I know I do not ride right at posted speed limits ... and do so mostly to create a cushion from other vehicles. I do however...slow when coming up to an intersection where I see vehicles that could take my lane by jumping out there like the van did.
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:07 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy76 View Post
Why? The rider ... obviously moving faster than 30mph ... had the right of way. The Van was making a right turn on Red. The Speed at which the van rolled through the intersection is proof it did not stop before turning. It then made an illegal Right turn by moving the left lane and cutting back to the right during the course of the turn. I could see the van in the riders camera so the van if it had stopped to check for traffic would have seen the bike.

Is the rider at some fault ... legally I would say no ... but real life yeah he could have avoided the van. But if you are looking at who broke the most laws here ... Van gets the gold star. It caused the collision by entering the roadway illegally.

I know I do not ride right at posted speed limits ... and do so mostly to create a cushion from other vehicles. I do however...slow when coming up to an intersection where I see vehicles that could take my lane by jumping out there like the van did.
You don't know if the van stopped at the stripe before the crosswalk. A prosecutor would have to prove that it didn't. You can't see the van when it's at that stripe so you're just assuming. That's not proof.

Are you claiming that the van was entirely in the left lane when it made that turn?
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:19 AM   #49
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Here's the intersection

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7832...CGS82epctQ!2e0
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:23 AM   #50
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Quote:
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But if you are looking at who broke the most laws here ... Van gets the gold star. It caused the collision by entering the roadway illegally.
The rider's speed caused that collision. He never even attempted to brake. He thought he'd be a smartass and pass on the inside.
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:17 AM   #51
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[QUOTE=Tojo92;3751507]He blurred his speedometer for a reason. Still a dumbass.[/QUOTE

Due to the uncorrected speedo and gearing changes to mine, I would always blur speedo. It said I was doing 85 at 50.
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Old 04-02-2014, 07:25 AM   #52
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[quote=bluewave18;3751709]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tojo92 View Post
He blurred his speedometer for a reason. Still a dumbass.[/QUOTE

Due to the uncorrected speedo and gearing changes to mine, I would always blur speedo. It said I was doing 85 at 50.
Speed sensors on the Panigale are on the rear hub which makes them unaffected my gearing changes


And who gives a whos fault it is
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Old 04-02-2014, 08:03 AM   #53
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Sucks to see such a beautiful bike go down. But the guy? Not so much. Maybe he shouldn't have been riding like such an idiot.
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Old 04-02-2014, 08:58 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy76 View Post
Why? The rider ... obviously moving faster than 30mph ... had the right of way. The Van was making a right turn on Red. The Speed at which the van rolled through the intersection is proof it did not stop before turning. It then made an illegal Right turn by moving the left lane and cutting back to the right during the course of the turn. I could see the van in the riders camera so the van if it had stopped to check for traffic would have seen the bike.

Is the rider at some fault ... legally I would say no ... but real life yeah he could have avoided the van. But if you are looking at who broke the most laws here ... Van gets the gold star. It caused the collision by entering the roadway illegally.

I know I do not ride right at posted speed limits ... and do so mostly to create a cushion from other vehicles. I do however...slow when coming up to an intersection where I see vehicles that could take my lane by jumping out there like the van did.
The rider had more than enough time to slow down. Anytime a car pulls onto another road they are pulling out in front of someone. If there is plenty of room and someone speeding comes and rear ends the car, is it still the cars fault for pulling out onto the road?

As for the turn that is the same path a semi takes and other larger vehicles, does that mean wide turns are now illegal and all semis must be taken off the road?
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:02 AM   #55
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As for the turn that is the same path a semi takes and other larger vehicles, does that mean wide turns are now illegal and all semis must be taken off the road?
This is a pet hate of mine so when I comment don't think I am an advocate for anything except what I am talking about.

A VAN ISN'T A SEMI!!!!!!!!!!!

When a Prius is pulling out of a McDonald's, I don't expect it to take the same path of an F-350 pulling a 32 foot gooseneck. If it does, it is poor and sloppy driving that can lead to accidents.

The vans path was no where near as bad as what I see every day.
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:34 AM   #56
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I was just saying it was a wide turn not a turn into the left lane and then a lane change into the right lane. Did the van need to take the turn like that? No unless it's steering is in horrible condition.
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:55 AM   #57
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The vans path was no where near as bad as what I see every day.
This, plus those streets don't intersect at a right angle. That van had to turn more than 90 degrees to the right in order to get closer to the curb.
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:41 AM   #58
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Ouch, poor Ducati.
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Old 04-02-2014, 12:11 PM   #59
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Quote:
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You don't know if the van stopped at the stripe before the crosswalk. A prosecutor would have to prove that it didn't. You can't see the van when it's at that stripe so you're just assuming. That's not proof.
I can agree with that. But after seeing your view of the instersection .. really makes me believe they did not stop. A complete stop would have allowed them to make that turn correctly in my opinion.

Are you claiming that the van was entirely in the left lane when it made that turn?
Yes .. again thanks for the picture of the intersection. If you look there are 3 double white lines in the crosswalk the second set just happens to fall where the lane stripe would be. The van turns between the 2nd set and 3rd set putting wide .. maybe not as wide I as originally thought but it is a wide turn.
Dont get me wrong ... His speed was a factor, not attempting to slow down is a factor. These things he could have changed. Trying to pass to the inside? If I was arguing as the rider I would argue that since the van took a wider approach towards the left lane it had seen me so staying in my lane as the vehicle with the right of way was a logical choice. As we all can see that was a bad choice .. I would not call that a pass to the inside just a bad choice since there was not an escape route in the van decided to move over which it did.

I am not some bleeding heart liberal who things everyone is at fault for but I look at this from a stand point of bigger vehicles not watching where they go so I find the van did more to cause this than rider. His speed was not so much to the extreme his closing distance was skewed. The van entered the road on a red light .. putting a slower moving vehicle in front of another vehicle moving at (or a little above) posted speed with a green light (right of way).

Could the rider have avoided the crash ... pretty good odds he could have and should have if he wanted to stay up. I have followed the advice from many of you in here about always giving yourself an out ... dont trust the cagers, and ride like you are invisible. He did none of these things. Does that make it his fault "legally" no just makes him stupid in this instance - live and learn. He chose to stand his ground as having the "Right of Way" and he got to the ground right a way when he collided with the van. Vans insurance needs to pay as the van could have waited until the approaching vehicles passed then made the turn on red. The van did not have the right to enter the roadway if vehicles were approaching with a green light.
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Old 04-02-2014, 12:41 PM   #60
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Quote:
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The rider had more than enough time to slow down. Anytime a car pulls onto another road they are pulling out in front of someone. If there is plenty of room and someone speeding comes and rear ends the car, is it still the cars fault for pulling out onto the road?
No you are not always pulling out in front of someone. That is the whole point of yielding to oncoming traffic. You do not have to make that turn - you chose to make that turn at that moment. For the sake of this conversation the van had a red light. So it chose to enter the roadway without having a signal showing the right of way. How many times have you had people pull out in front of you from a parking lot or intersection while you are doing the speed limit only to have to hit the brakes cause they just had to go right then and there. I would like to see his speed because the way he passed the vehicle after the previous intersection he was not flying. The van made that turn wide and did not get up to speed ... occupied both lanes of traffic even if just for a moment causing the rider to have to guess where it was going.

As for the turn that is the same path a semi takes and other larger vehicles, does that mean wide turns are now illegal and all semis must be taken off the road?
We are talking about a van not a semi, or even a 1/2 truck and trailer. The 2 larger vehicles knowing they have to use more of the road to turn should wait until they have the right of way or there are no approaching vehicles with the right of way. Van had plenty of room closer to the curb to make that turn in the right side of the road. Either just a careless driver or again I believe the van did a rolling stop through the light to make the turn. If the van had made a complete stop I believe there is no reason they could not have turned directly into the correct lane. But even if the van had turned correctly it was still cutting off a moving vehicle with a green light. For accident avoidance the bike should have slowed down when seeing the van turning ... but on a green light you should not have to hit your brakes .. you do it because you must to avoid a wreck because someone impede your movement.
I would fight it all the way unless I was hauling .
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