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Old 04-26-2007, 11:08 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arturo3rd
I dont think Roger was trying to kill anyone when he was riding. The ride for Roger is more or a memorial ride for him and not what he did.

In a way his death is a blessing becuase more people in this community are coming together and stopping the online drama. Reality sunk and most have had a eye opening experience with his death. Instead of of dwelling on the bad, which we all know happened, lets focus on the positive and grow as adults and a community thats like a brotherhood to many.

Im not saying this to get bashed for supporting a murderer or whatever yall wanna call him, so dont take my post that way. Its just another prespective. I didnt even know the guy.
+1...Buying you a beer for that one on Friday
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Old 04-26-2007, 11:11 AM   #42
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"I dont think Roger was trying to kill anyone when he was riding. The ride for Roger is more or a memorial ride for him and not what he did... murderer or whatever yall wanna call him, so dont take my post that way. Its just another prespective. I didnt even know the guy."

I don't think anyone is trying to literaly(sp?) call roger a murderer..It it NOT about Roger, it's using that particular accident/incident as an example. It is trying to show the reality of the situation, explain and push the point home.
Some of ya'll have gotten ticket for reckless endangerment...right? THIS is, in part where/why...

Focus on the good and the people involved in those threads. Focus on the reality of what happened and why here.
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Old 04-26-2007, 11:16 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulric
"I dont think Roger was trying to kill anyone when he was riding. The ride for Roger is more or a memorial ride for him and not what he did... murderer or whatever yall wanna call him, so dont take my post that way. Its just another prespective. I didnt even know the guy."

I don't think anyone is trying to literaly(sp?) call roger a murderer..It it NOT about Roger, it's using that particular accident/incident as an example. It is trying to show the reality of the situation, explain and push the point home.
Some of ya'll have gotten ticket for reckless endangerment...right? THIS is, in part where/why...

Focus on the good and the people involved in those threads. Focus on the reality of what happened and why here.
exactly. almost everyone has gotten some sort of speeding or done something they look back on and know they shouldnt have taken that risks. roger just got handed down the ultimate punishment and took others lives. before the blame is being administerd, look at your own actions and think twice, act once when you ride.
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Old 04-26-2007, 11:17 AM   #44
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Well said Tim.
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Old 04-26-2007, 12:05 PM   #45
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I have to say it took a lot for you to say what you said. :notworthy I agree with you and the rest of you guys for that matter. I never once thought this memorial ride was going to be because he accidentaly killed another rider. I look at this ride for every rider who went down in the past. Maybe this will show other local cagers that all motorcycles can be safe on the freeways... So please no whoolies!!!
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Old 04-26-2007, 12:06 PM   #46
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Great post, Tim.
Very well put.
I'm %100 agree with you.

Never knew Roger.
Seeing how all these people care, he must been a great guy.
But I just can't participate myself for any of his memorial.
Everytime I see something about his fund, sticker, memorial ride... etc, I can't get rid of Jordan and Lydia out of my head.
If it was without them, I would've had more sympathy for Roger.
I know it is stupid to be upset about a person who's not even here any longer, but that's how I feel.

However,
I'm very impressed how everybody's trying to make the best out of this very unfortunate event.
Their prayers, support, donation, whatever it takes.
I can tell this accident effected a lot of people and I hope it stays that way.
It could save a lot of accidents and lives.

Slow down,
be smart,
be kind,
be considerate,
and stay alive, everyone.
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Old 04-26-2007, 12:10 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutmegchoi
I'm very impressed how everybody's trying to make the best out of this very unfortunate event.
Their prayers, support, donation, whatever it takes.
I can tell this accident effected a lot of people and I hope it stays that way.
It could save a lot of accidents and lives.
thats all its for and shouldnt get twisted in any other evil way.

in a way its not going to be just for him but for every rider lost over the last few weeks. this just opened the eyes to many since it hit close to home. it shouldnt have happened this way :eh:
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Old 04-26-2007, 12:11 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutmegchoi
Great post, Tim.
Very well put.
I'm %100 agree with you.

Never knew Roger.
Seeing how all these people care, he must been a great guy.
But I just can't participate myself for any of his memorial.
Everytime I see something about his fund, sticker, memorial ride... etc, I can't get rid of Jordan and Lydia out of my head.
If it was without them, I would've had more sympathy for Roger.
I know it is stupid to be upset about a person who's not even here any longer, but that's how I feel.

However,
I'm very impressed how everybody's trying to make the best out of this very unfortunate event.
Their prayers, support, donation, whatever it takes.
I can tell this accident effected a lot of people and I hope it stays that way.
It could save a lot of accidents and lives.

Slow down,
be smart,
be kind,
be considerate,
and stay alive, everyone.

I had spoken with the State Troopers that were there (btw one rides too), and he said word for word, "Never in my 19 years have I seen something so horrible". I told him that I told my mom about it and she began crying and told me she doesn't want me to get one. Surprisingly, I still want one and he told me it's not the bikes its the people. Just like guns.
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Old 04-26-2007, 12:40 PM   #49
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Godsuki, First off an excellant thread. Very similar to one I wanted to write, but yours came out much, much nicer.

(The speeder who killed a woman yesterday was charged with murder. Sure, something that'll likely end up to something similar to vehicular manslaughter, but it can happen. That news plus a couple of not so positive reports of sport bike rider's events of last night just aired on channel 13.)

Back on subject...I started riding in '64 on a Sears Allstate Compact. My son got a PW50 at age 5, 27 years later he has a sweet RC51 and additionally I've two lovely daughters who love to pillion. Due to one event or another I came up with what I call the 80% rule many years ago. Simply put it is a level of ability not to be exceeded on the street. Why? You just might need the extra 20% at a moment's notice. True, honing one's skill needs to be done, just do in a 'safe' enviorment.

Safe riding to all, Brad
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Old 04-26-2007, 12:49 PM   #50
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And to expand on that 80% rule, as I have been on the business end of this mandate since the age of 5 .. (bradtex is my dad). 80% means YOUR 80%. Just because the guy you are attempting to keep up with can do "it" doesn't mean your skill set can. Don't let your Ego write a check your can't cash.
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Old 04-26-2007, 12:53 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper
And to expand on that 80% rule, as I have been on the business end of this mandate since the age of 5 .. (bradtex is my dad). 80% means YOUR 80%. Just because the guy you are attempting to keep up with can do "it" doesn't mean your skill set can. Don't let your Ego write a check your can't cash.
nicely put!

may just have to put that in my sig!
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Old 04-26-2007, 12:59 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlboroman71818
undoubtably, but i just didnt agree that Roger should be called a murderer when everyone took the chance. I would want Billy Lane's head on a platter because he was intoxicated. But Tim is right, we all need to heed what has happened..........

is being intoxicated really that different from riding WAY too fast?? are they not both a series of increasingly worse decisions with increasingly worse consequences? do they both not show a disregard for the safety of those around you? i really don't see the difference. they are both conscious decisions.

and yes, if roger had survived he would most likely be charged with vehicular manslaughter due to his excessive speed and lane crossing.

i dont see how anyone can put blame on lydia and jordan tho. i dont see what they did wrong. he was riding in his lane and under his limits. i'm sorry, but i don't accept the fact that it's my fault some rider was riding beyond his and crossed into my lane killing me. that just doesn't make sense. that is not a risk we all decide to take when we get on a motorcycle. other rider's can't expect to be held resonsible for someone else's actions.
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Old 04-26-2007, 01:02 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SecretAgent
is being intoxicated really that different from riding WAY too fast?? are they not both a series of increasingly worse decisions with increasingly worse consequences? do they both not show a disregard for the safety of those around you? i really don't see the difference. they are both conscious decisions.

and yes, if roger had survived he would most likely be charged with vehicular manslaughter due to his excessive speed and lane crossing.

i dont see how anyone can put blame on lydia and jordan tho. i dont see what they did wrong. he was riding in his lane and under his limits. i'm sorry, but i don't accept the fact that it's my fault some rider was riding beyond his and crossed into my lane killing me. that just doesn't make sense. that is not a risk we all decide to take when we get on a motorcycle. other rider's can't expect to be held resonsible for someone else's actions.
no they shouldn't be held responsible for others actions, but they should accept the risk that exists when on the road...car or bike....other people can kill you at any moment and that is a risk you need to be aware of at all times!
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Old 04-26-2007, 01:13 PM   #54
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Tim, that is the single best post I have seen on the subject. Took lots of stones to say it and I applaude you for seeing through to the truth in the matter. Hopefully it will sink in to at least one person and we can stop trading lives for thrills on public roads.
great thread and great response as well
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Old 04-26-2007, 01:14 PM   #55
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First off, Tim's post is right on the money... i think another forum member and I wrote something similar and we got jumped on by a few... Good to see someone put it in a different thread and voice some of the same opinions and concerns we have...

Not saying that Roger is a bad guy, he is known by many and will be missed, but he did ride that bike and he did take another life... with that said, it was an accident and we should all learn from it... kinda sad that someone has to die for all of us to open our eyes...

A memorial ride for Roger is a good idea, but like Tim said... with so many new riders and the quantity of riders is not a good thing... i would say break the group up and do it on a different day... Cinco de mayo is nt exactly the day I want to be out and about....

Quote:
Originally Posted by marlboroman71818
i think you got me wrong, i was not bashing on you. I was trying to say that everyone knew the risks that night including the riders that are lost. they knew that this could happen. so there is no way that Roger could have been the cause as stated in the first post of this thread.
that is just bs... when he got on his bike with his girl he wasn't thinking that someone was gonna highside in to him at a high rate of speed... when you get into your car do you think that the 18wheeler is gonna have a blown out and crush you in the next lane? No... you know that an accident can occur and take steps to avoid it... you don't follow as close, you stay out of his blind spot, etc... what could this guy have done to prevent his own death??? Roger was the cause, he chose to ride in a manner that was unsafe... if it was you or I, and we survived an accident that killed someone, we would be going to jail for vehicular manslaughter, if found to be negligent (and highspeed is), then it is murder...

We as riders need to start taking responsibility for our actions and like Tim said, stop thinking that we are always the victim....
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...... but when i have problems being able to screw other things i normally tie them up and lube the out of it. dont be afraid do get rough with it. if you cant handle it with the tool you have maybe the task is to hard for you. in which case if could be time for some tag team action and maybe even a foursome...
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Old 04-26-2007, 01:15 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SecretAgent
is being intoxicated really that different from riding WAY too fast?? are they not both a series of increasingly worse decisions with increasingly worse consequences? do they both not show a disregard for the safety of those around you? i really don't see the difference. they are both conscious decisions.

and yes, if roger had survived he would most likely be charged with vehicular manslaughter due to his excessive speed and lane crossing.

i dont see how anyone can put blame on lydia and jordan tho. i dont see what they did wrong. he was riding in his lane and under his limits. i'm sorry, but i don't accept the fact that it's my fault some rider was riding beyond his and crossed into my lane killing me. that just doesn't make sense. that is not a risk we all decide to take when we get on a motorcycle. other rider's can't expect to be held resonsible for someone else's actions.
+1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton9698
...... but when i have problems being able to screw other things i normally tie them up and lube the out of it. dont be afraid do get rough with it. if you cant handle it with the tool you have maybe the task is to hard for you. in which case if could be time for some tag team action and maybe even a foursome...
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Old 04-26-2007, 01:29 PM   #57
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1)DWI/DWI + fatallity accident = charge of murder-2. not vehicular manslaughter.

2)reckless endangerment + fatallity accident = charge of murder-2. not vehicular manslaughter.

In both cases a plea of vehicular manslaughter will most likely be entered and most likely accepted. No guarantee though.
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Old 04-26-2007, 02:00 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper
1)DWI/DWI + fatallity accident = charge of murder-2. not vehicular manslaughter.

2)reckless endangerment + fatallity accident = charge of murder-2. not vehicular manslaughter.

In both cases a plea of vehicular manslaughter will most likely be entered and most likely accepted. No guarantee though.

I wish it was that easy. The Asst. DA will go with whatever charge they think that they can win in a case. This is not always the higher charge.
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Old 04-26-2007, 02:51 PM   #59
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good post Tim and well written - thoughts for us all.

Regarding this comment - "Was I supposed to stand up at lunch and say "guys, we ride a little too hard and fast, lets go home".

Yes - but you dont have to do home.

Just stand up and say "we are riding too hard and fast - let's back it off several notches so none of us get hurt or hurt someone else".

And then lead by doing just that.

Peer pressure and leadership means a lot to a group.
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Old 04-26-2007, 02:53 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jus10
no they shouldn't be held responsible for others actions, but they should accept the risk that exists when on the road...car or bike....other people can kill you at any moment and that is a risk you need to be aware of at all times!

i never said that you shouldn't accept the risks of riding. that's a given. however, jordan cannot be held even partly responsible for the accident. he was merely in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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