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Old 04-26-2007, 09:17 AM   #21
Patrick
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Maybe this might help put it into perspective.
If a car had crossed a double yellow line and hit head on a couple of motorcyclists, killing one and severely injuring another, most people here would be calling for the car drivers head on a silver platter.

Anyone remember Billy Lane?

I feel badly for Roger and his family, I even contributed to his fund, as well as the others involved in this trajedy, I just hope everyone would put this into perspective.

Good post Tim.
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Old 04-26-2007, 09:23 AM   #22
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undoubtably, but i just didnt agree that Roger should be called a murderer when everyone took the chance. I would want Billy Lane's head on a platter because he was intoxicated. But Tim is right, we all need to heed what has happened..........
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Old 04-26-2007, 09:24 AM   #23
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This is a good thread i agree with the statement i have never seen so many people getting killed soooooo.... quick.... I have been riding bikes for 27 years all these kids or adults on here need to be more safe while riding!!!!!!It is crazy it seems like every day some one on here or some one's friend is getting killed.Please every body ride smart!!!!!!
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Old 04-26-2007, 09:28 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godsuki
I just wanted to inject some real perspective here. We so often, as motorcyclists, claim the role of the victim. We fail to realize that we are also the assailant most of the time. We are operating a guided, and at times, a misguided missile. I know some of you will not agree with me, but the truth hurts sometimes. Roger was a great guy, and a good friend to a lot of people. His loss is great, and has impacted a lot of lives. I want to say up front that in no way am I bashing Roger, so do not misconstrue that.

What I am saying is you have to call it like it is. What Iíve been reading here the last few days is nothing more than most turning a blind eye to an unfortunate and deliberate act of violence on Rogerís part. What I see is an overwhelming outpouring of compassion to the friends and family of Roger and the other parties involved, which makes me proud to be a part of Motohouston. However I cannot understand memorializing someone who took another manís life. What Roger did was no accident. He willfully and deliberately, although unknowingly, committed premeditated homicide. He chose to ride too fast and paid the ultimate price. However he also took the life of another man, and seriously injured his female passenger. That man, Jorden, will never get to get married, or witness the birth of his children, or see them grow up, or hug his mom, or anything else. That man had family members and friends that will never get to see him again either. Roger took another manís life. Plain and simple. What if the roles had been reversed? I'd bet most on here would want the other rider crucified! What makes what he did different? What if he would have killed a small child instead? Or your child? Or your brother? I bet you would feel a whole lot different then. Is it because he was a biker that makes you feel different? Or because he was a board member? He was our friend. But that doesn't mean he should be immortalized.

I am guilty, just as we all are, of excessive speed and stupidity. This finger is pointed at me just as much as anywhere else. We need to see this as our wake up call!

The thing that really gets me is you want to organize a ride, with 100+ bikes, lots of them new riders, most of them never having ridden in a group that large, and parade them through the busy and crowded streets of Houston, on Cinco De Mayo! You are just asking for someone else to get hurt. If you want to honor Rogerís memory, and want to honor his family, Jorden and his family, and Lydia, then slow your riding down. This also applies to me as well. But donít put others lives at risk trying to memorialize a good man that took the life of another. If he would have been the oncoming bike, the innocent one in all of this, then a memorial ride would be appropriate. If you must have a memorial ride, then ride for Jorden and Lydia, not the man who took the life of another, and destroyed the lives of all those associated with them.

My prayers go out to Rogerís family, and to all the victims involved, as well as all those who loved them.
There are some things here that I agree with and some others, not so much, but for the most part this was a great post and I hope that alot of what was said here is heeded by the many that choose to ride. WE DO need to adjust our riding and WE DO need to consider all those lives that may be affected by the potential end results of our actions as it takes milliseconds for a situation to turn catastrophic. PERSONALLY, I am going to be riding on that Memorial ride for both Jordan and Roger and in elation for Lydia's recovery. I've been praying so hard for that and to see it (Lydia's recovery) come into fruition brings great joy to my heart. Again though, we need to-as a community- always act as checks to one another when we observe our counterparts riding a bit wrecklessly. Never again will I sit idly by as I see a friend of mines doing so. I really do hope lessons were learned here and I hope that those lessons find themselves ingrained into the general psyche of all those reading this board and hopefully beyond...
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Old 04-26-2007, 09:29 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
Maybe this might help put it into perspective.
If a car had crossed a double yellow line and hit head on a couple of motorcyclists, killing one and severely injuring another, most people here would be calling for the car drivers head on a silver platter.

Anyone remember Billy Lane?

I feel badly for Roger and his family, I even contributed to his fund, as well as the others involved in this trajedy, I just hope everyone would put this into perspective.

Good post Tim.
Very good point...
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Old 04-26-2007, 09:33 AM   #26
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Well said Tim.
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Old 04-26-2007, 09:44 AM   #27
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Great post. I think it needed to be said and needs to be remembered. There are lessons to be learned and talking about it is the best way to get the message out. Like Buck said, I think it took some stones to post it so applause to Godsuki.

I think a memorial ride should be to remember/celebrate everyone involved, but also maybe serve as a reminder of safety and a fresh start to the riding season. Keep the ride slow and safe and keep everyone together. Show the new riders that it's ok to go slow while holding back the seasoned speed demons too. Stay safe out there!
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Old 04-26-2007, 09:56 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A303
Im sorry im a little confused here. Please explain. Was I supposed to stand up at lunch and say "guys, we ride a little too hard and fast, lets go home". I realize alot, and I mean ALOT, could have been different, but there is nothing I can do to change that now. And as I said before twice, I have accepted responsibility for my actions.
what are u responsible for???? making roger run wide in a turn???? making him go ride with yall??? i dont think u should be responsible, i wouldnt feel responsible if one of my riding buddies lost it, before we ride out i tell em "ride resposible", "u are responsible for your safety, u are holding your throttle not someone elses, i want u to come back here next time we have a ride", "it is what it is" fast street riding, when some as$hole on a new maroon R1 taunts me on 45s i laugh, then hope he makes it home,i dont know what happened other than what i read here but i dont wanna hear "your responsible", noone is responsible for others actions or inactions,

i would feel the loss of a friend, not responsible

maybe u guys have been on that road before and road faster before but "maybe" this time the road was just a tad less tractive due to weather or somehing else, well it turned out bad, if anyone bought a bike and thinks it cant or wont happen to them, sell your bike, u are not in touch with reality,

blame doesnt belong in this situation

dont hold yourself responsible just cause u were riding with him

mourn the loss of your friend, remember him and the times you had

i didnt know him but RIP - Roger

sorry to rant, ride safe ppl
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Old 04-26-2007, 10:05 AM   #29
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First off unkowingly and premeditated are complete opposite. You can't have both at the same time. I appreciate this thread but there is a substantial difference between taking time to think out a strategy to hurt someone and behaving wrecklessly and as a consequence someone gets hurt. I do acknowlege that this thread was needed. And all of us should heed its warning. But I've seen other threads like this with similar warnings, and I've seen some of the same people fly down the road with wreckless abandon! I really don't think we should make Koskesh a villain if time and time again most of us are guilty of the same thing. But in no way do I want to make him a mortar. My point is death is a sober reminder. But that reminder seems to wear off more and more each time we ride.
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Old 04-26-2007, 10:07 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TILLA THE KILLA
First off unknowingly and premeditated are complete opposite. You can't have both at the same time. I appreciate this thread but there is a substantial difference between taking time to think out a strategy to hurt someone and behaving wrecklessly and as a consequence someone gets hurt. I do acknowlege that this thread was needed. And all of us should heed its warning. But I've seen other threads like this with similar warnings, and I've seen some of the same people fly down the road with wreckless abandon! I really don't think we should make Koskesh a villain if time and time again most of us are guilty of the same thing. But in no way do I want to make him a mortar. My point is death is a sober reminder. But that reminder seems to wear off more and more each time we ride.
+1. My sentiments exactly....
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Old 04-26-2007, 10:09 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TILLA THE KILLA
First off unkowingly and premeditated are complete opposite. You can't have both at the same time. I appreciate this thread but there is a substantial difference between taking time to think out a strategy to hurt someone and behaving wrecklessly and as a consequence someone gets hurt. I do acknowlege that this thread was needed. And all of us should heed its warning. But I've seen other threads like this with similar warnings, and I've seen some of the same people fly down the road with wreckless abandon! I really don't think we should make Koskesh a villain if time and time again most of us are guilty of the same thing. But in no way do I want to make him a mortar. My point is death is a sober reminder. But that reminder seems to wear off more and more each time we ride.
Agreed
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Old 04-26-2007, 10:26 AM   #32
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I agree this is a good post and it needed to be said !
I was just hurt earlier this week do to no one's fault except my own. I'm just thankful for the gear and my skills that saved me from being seriously hurt. When we post our wrecks,accidents, ect...it's not to brag but to warn others to becareful, and ride smart, if we are a family here on MH then as our brother and sisters keepers we should continue to warn them when they pull something crazy rather than give them the for pulling a wheelie in traffice on the freeway. I love doing wheelies and it's one of my worst habits but all this here has made me think twice. I want to be around and watch my 10yr old grow up and be able to have him ride along side of me one day. We all have our thing we like to do I just want us to becareful and look out for one another, so we can hang out together at the next MH Bar B Q rather than be missed. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 04-26-2007, 10:28 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyRC
Great post. I think it needed to be said and needs to be remembered. There are lessons to be learned and talking about it is the best way to get the message out. Like Buck said, I think it took some stones to post it so applause to Godsuki.
I know a few have wanted to say something about the situation, including myself. I figured I'd let a little time pass before mentioning it to give the families and friends time to grieve.

Was he in the wrong? Yes. I believe everybody here, his family, as well jorden's & lydia's families will agree to that, but, simply put, it was an accident. An AVOIDABLE one, but still an accident. If roger was drunk or strung out on drugs, then I'd consider otherwise. If he was driving instead and the same situation occurred, it would still be an accident. It is done, we can't change that. The only thing we can do is learn from his mistakes and teach the newer riders the responsibility we carry everytime we start our bikes. The resposibility to our own families as well as the millions of other families we share the road with. Some will heed the warning, some won't. They will just have to learn on their own and at their's or someone else's expense.

I doubt a memorial ride is going to immortalize roger, it's just a celebration of his life and the joys and laughter he brought to the people around him, even people he's never met.


That's my rant on the subject. Very good post Tim.
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Old 04-26-2007, 10:31 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer X 05
I agree this is a good post and it needed to be said !
I was just hurt earlier this week do to no one's fault except my own. I'm just thankful for the gear and my skills that saved me from being seriously hurt. When we post our wrecks,accidents, ect...it's not to brag but to warn others to becareful, and ride smart, if we are a family here on MH then as our brother and sisters keepers we should continue to warn them when they pull something crazy rather than give them the for pulling a wheelie in traffice on the freeway. I love doing wheelies and it's one of my worst habits but all this here has made me think twice. I want to be around and watch my 10yr old grow up and be able to have him ride along side of me one day. We all have our thing we like to do I just want us to becareful and look out for one another, so we can hang out together at the next MH Bar B Q rather than be missed. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 04-26-2007, 10:45 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TILLA THE KILLA
First off unkowingly and premeditated are complete opposite. You can't have both at the same time. I appreciate this thread but there is a substantial difference between taking time to think out a strategy to hurt someone and behaving wrecklessly and as a consequence someone gets hurt. I do acknowlege that this thread was needed. And all of us should heed its warning. But I've seen other threads like this with similar warnings, and I've seen some of the same people fly down the road with wreckless abandon! I really don't think we should make Koskesh a villain if time and time again most of us are guilty of the same thing. But in no way do I want to make him a mortar. My point is death is a sober reminder. But that reminder seems to wear off more and more each time we ride.
I know what you ment but i found this funny!
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Old 04-26-2007, 10:50 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddha429
I know a few have wanted to say something about the situation, including myself. I figured I'd let a little time pass before mentioning it to give the families and friends time to grieve.

Was he in the wrong? Yes. I believe everybody here, his family, as well jorden's & lydia's families will agree to that, but, simply put, it was an accident. An AVOIDABLE one, but still an accident. If roger was drunk or strung out on drugs, then I'd consider otherwise. If he was driving instead and the same situation occurred, it would still be an accident. It is done, we can't change that. The only thing we can do is learn from his mistakes and teach the newer riders the responsibility we carry everytime we start our bikes. The resposibility to our own families as well as the millions of other families we share the road with. Some will heed the warning, some won't. They will just have to learn on their own and at their's or someone else's expense.

I doubt a memorial ride is going to immortalize roger, it's just a celebration of his life and the joys and laughter he brought to the people around him, even people he's never met.


That's my rant on the subject. Very good post Tim.
Problem is in the eyes of the law it would be more then just an accident. If Roger survived the wreck and the other rider did not it would probably be a case of vehicular manslaughter in a criminal court and who knows what the outcome of a civil case would be but he would probably be found guilty. In this case it seems the sentencing and pay out was eye for an eye.
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Old 04-26-2007, 10:58 AM   #37
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my bad Matyr! thanks for the spell check, sad part about is I just got on my class about editing their work.
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Old 04-26-2007, 11:00 AM   #38
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I dont think Roger was trying to kill anyone when he was riding. The ride for Roger is more or a memorial ride for him and not what he did.

In a way his death is a blessing becuase more people in this community are coming together and stopping the online drama. Reality sunk and most have had a eye opening experience with his death. Instead of of dwelling on the bad, which we all know happened, lets focus on the positive and grow as adults and a community thats like a brotherhood to many.

Im not saying this to get bashed for supporting a murderer or whatever yall wanna call him, so dont take my post that way. Its just another prespective. I didnt even know the guy.
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Old 04-26-2007, 11:00 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
Problem is in the eyes of the law it would be more then just an accident. If Roger survived the wreck and the other rider did not it would probably be a case of vehicular manslaughter in a criminal court and who knows what the outcome of a civil case would be but he would probably be found guilty. In this case it seems the sentencing and pay out was eye for an eye.

Good post Tim
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Old 04-26-2007, 11:02 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arturo3rd
I dont think Roger was trying to kill anyone when he was riding. The ride for Roger is more or a memorial ride for him and not what he did.

In a way his death is a blessing becuase more people in this community are coming together and stopping the online drama. Reality sunk and most have had a eye opening experience with his death. Instead of of dwelling on the bad, which we all know happened, lets focus on the positive and grow as adults and a community thats like a brotherhood to many.

Im not saying this to get bashed for supporting a murderer or whatever yall wanna call him, so dont take my post that way. Its just another prespective. I didnt even know the guy.
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