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Old 02-06-2014, 11:59 AM   #1
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Deputy Killed Shooter No-Billed

http://www.kbtx.com/news/local/headl...243993261.html
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:01 PM   #2
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dammit, wrong forum
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:36 PM   #3
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^ could possibly be the right forum. The guy is clearly a wild man on a motorcycle.

and he looks pretty stoned in the mug shot.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:24 PM   #4
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"no knock warrant" for some pot plants? There is no justifiable reason to kick
in someone's door for something this minor when it could have been handled peacefully during the day with no likelihood of something like this happening, If they kick in my door, unannounced in the middle of the night, they'd get the same response. Now this officer's family is devastated and the dumbass pot grower's life is ruined as well. No sympathy from me. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
While I generally abhor the FTP attitude displayed on here so often, not this time.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:31 PM   #5
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I have always believed that no-knock warrants in addition to being stupidly dangerous were unconstitutional. Violence is never justified until peaceful measures have failed. Unless a life is at stake, there is no justification for a move like this.
I would no bill the shooter too. Yelling police is plain bullshit too... anybody can do that.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:54 PM   #6
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Agree 100% obed.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:30 AM   #7
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Although, I do not like the idea of a "no knock warrant", I understand the point of it, and have to disagree that it is unconstitutional. No trying to sway your opinion on it, but the Constitiution does not state anything about having to knock when a search warrant is obtained. No if you meant in regards to him growing, then different discussion. Now, if that warrant was based on false information and so forth and the department was aware of it, and still carried it out, then I would agree that the warrant issued was unconstitutional and illegal, dispite if turned up drugs/weapons so forth.

It is a sad loss especially over some herbs. From what I remember in another article on a different media site, he had prior crimes involving violence, and that the suspect might also have guns on the property. The no knock just gives the police more of an element of surprise, and sometimes helps end these more peacefully, but they're not a perfect solution. The guy could have been truly concerned over the safety of him and his gf, or he could of heard and seen that they were the cops but still opened fire. We may never know.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcompton View Post
Although, I do not like the idea of a "no knock warrant", I understand the point of it, and have to disagree that it is unconstitutional. No trying to sway your opinion on it, but the Constitiution does not state anything about having to knock when a search warrant is obtained. No if you meant in regards to him growing, then different discussion. Now, if that warrant was based on false information and so forth and the department was aware of it, and still carried it out, then I would agree that the warrant issued was unconstitutional and illegal, dispite if turned up drugs/weapons so forth.

It is a sad loss especially over some herbs. From what I remember in another article on a different media site, he had prior crimes involving violence, and that the suspect might also have guns on the property. The no knock just gives the police more of an element of surprise, and sometimes helps end these more peacefully, but they're not a perfect solution. The guy could have been truly concerned over the safety of him and his gf, or he could of heard and seen that they were the cops but still opened fire. We may never know.
One of these things doesn't belong.

Known violent history + guns on property = wait till he's alone and off the property, or just off the property at the very least.


The kick-door gestapo tactics need to go.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:07 PM   #9
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@lisiecki1

I am not being a troll when I say, or being a smart , but what are they supposed to do when they have a known criminal, doing known criminal events. Knock on the door and say please come out? In this case, from what has been released at least, I think the matter did not warrant such actions over an herb grower. But I have no issue with a warrant being served and a dorr being kicked in on a known criminal, or true evidence that such action is needed against a suspect. Such as, they know for certain not SUSPECT that he has weapons and so forth, but then again, I'm not the one that has to serve that warrant. I mean, cops have been killed just for pulling over some fool who was going well over the speed limit, and did not want a ticket.

Also, I just hope this does not become so debate about gun control because he killed the officer with a gun, because if his story is true, and he shot because he feared it was a robbery then he had the right to protect himself.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:49 PM   #10
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@lisiecki1

I am not being a troll when I say, or being a smart , but what are they supposed to do when they have a known criminal, doing known criminal events. Knock on the door and say please come out? In this case, from what has been released at least, I think the matter did not warrant such actions over an herb grower. But I have no issue with a warrant being served and a dorr being kicked in on a known criminal, or true evidence that such action is needed against a suspect. Such as, they know for certain not SUSPECT that he has weapons and so forth, but then again, I'm not the one that has to serve that warrant. I mean, cops have been killed just for pulling over some fool who was going well over the speed limit, and did not want a ticket.

Also, I just hope this does not become so debate about gun control because he killed the officer with a gun, because if his story is true, and he shot because he feared it was a robbery then he had the right to protect himself.
That is much too broad of a brush.

As I said before, wait till they leave the house and pick them up. If someone tipped the cops off, then hold them until you pick up the others; so that they can't tip off the criminal that the cops are coming.

I'm sure there are probably many nuances that I'm not thinking of that would make a big difference, and for that I'd like to have a police officer chime in. However, short of a known terrorist with confirmed plans of mass murder; why are these tactics needed?

This guy was a petty criminal (only because weed is illegal, which is stupid), with legal guns.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:03 PM   #11
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Dang that sucks to hear. The article make it seem like to ME that he was there alone or something. RIP to the officer. I do believe better tactics could have been used.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
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That is much too broad of a brush.

As I said before, wait till they leave the house and pick them up. If someone tipped the cops off, then hold them until you pick up the others; so that they can't tip off the criminal that the cops are coming.

I'm sure there are probably many nuances that I'm not thinking of that would make a big difference, and for that I'd like to have a police officer chime in. However, short of a known terrorist with confirmed plans of mass murder; why are these tactics needed?

This guy was a petty criminal (only because weed is illegal, which is stupid), with legal guns.
Well only problem with that idea is how fast things can escalate. Petty criminals do not always respond with petty actions, sometimes they do really stuipd things for fear of small consequences. So, they wait for the guy is out and about, and they try to arrest em when they find em and what if leads to a police chase, or the guy pulls a gun out in the open. I'd rather the cops kick in their door instead of risking it spilling on the streets. Again, it is not a perfect solution, it has it problems, as article shows, but at least it was confined to the man's house. What if the guy just used that as a coup-out and knew they were the cops and just wanted to shot? Now, take that scenario and put out in the streets.

I have no argument that the warrant was served on what I consider a silly crime, esp since they only busted him with five pounds lol. But maybe there was more to it at the time or something.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:57 PM   #13
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Obviously whatever "violent" act he performed in the past did not preclude him from owning weapons. So, he was not a convicted felon. What justification is there for sending a SWAT team in in this circumstance?

Excessive force only propagates a precedence for the continued use of it.
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Old 02-10-2014, 03:09 PM   #14
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I kind of do believe that any warrant should be served by knocking on the door...if they do not co-operate, then do what needs to be done to get the job done...but then again, I happen to believe that the war on drugs and drug laws are unconstitutional to begin with... we went down that road with alcohol already....to me, much of the crime and violence associated with drugs in this country is blow back from the violation of rights to begin with.
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Old 02-10-2014, 03:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Obviously whatever "violent" act he performed in the past did not preclude him from owning weapons. So, he was not a convicted felon. What justification is there for sending a SWAT team in in this circumstance?

Excessive force only propagates a precedence for the continued use of it.
Well this article differs from the one I read previously, as it was not say a SWAT team that entered, but several officers of the Sherrif's office that raided his house.

Like I said though guys, it is easier for us to say what cops should be doing, but that is like people who have not served over seas telling soliders how to do their duties. They are the putting their lifes on the line and they are the ones that understand the risks better than we do.

Before anyone responds, no, I do not believe that door busting in Afghan is the same as door busting some small time herb growers house in Texas are the same, but like said before, cops have been killed for performing a simple traffic stop by people with no prior felonies. These cops do not know what it is going on in these peoples minds. That knock could lead to shots be sent out of a window by a 12 gauge. Could the knock have made things different, sure! It could of made things worse if shooting his way out was his goal.

Now, again, I agree the reason for the warrant being served is silly, as it is due to herbs, but as much as I hate the law, it is the law. So, follow it until it gets overturned, and help in the fight to get it overturned. How many of you that oppose the war on drugs have visited the NORML meetings, or wrote your congress rep?

I understand your points, but I will have to disagree about having them to have to knock every time they serve a warrant. I feel, as long as they obtained a warrant legally, and based on sound evidence, then let em kick a door down.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
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I kind of do believe that any warrant should be served by knocking on the door...if they do not co-operate, then do what needs to be done to get the job done...but then again, I happen to believe that the war on drugs and drug laws are unconstitutional to begin with... we went down that road with alcohol already....to me, much of the crime and violence associated with drugs in this country is blow back from the violation of rights to begin with.
Again, agree 100%.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:32 PM   #17
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[quote/]. These cops do not know what it is going on in these peoples minds. That knock could lead to shots be sent out of a window by a 12 gauge. Could the knock have made things different, sure! It could of made things worse if shooting his way out was his goal.
[/quote]

I do not know what is going on in your mind, or the person standing in front of me at the grocery store! My sister called 911 when we where younger because she tried to kick me in the over a dispute, which I popped firecrackers at her feet while she was swinging on the jungle gym. She claimed animal cruelty and that I was aiming at my dog. You can bet that went on record. What now?! You think I wanted to hurt my dog?!
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