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Old 04-24-2007, 05:26 PM   #121
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I read all this and forgot the intentions of the original posts.
BRB!
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:26 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutusTx
I've been on here a lot today.........thinking about Roger(KosKesh) and others, Brian, Eric, Walter. Seems like every year we lose some, some of them forever and some that will just never be the same.
And how many times are WE at fault...........those roads are NOT our racetrack, and none of us are indestructable.
How many more before we get smart about it..........


AHA!!! I found it!!
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:27 PM   #123
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glad i didnt keep up with this thread
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:30 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badzx14r
NO Problem
But if you and Jus10 want to test fate try this get a nail and a hammer
start to hammer the nail into the board and take your eyes off the impact of hammering the nail for a stroke.... Will it be fate that hit your finger... Will it be a accident... Or just a f$ck up ..... your finger is still gonna hurt

Ok u cut your finger on an industrial saw in workshop class playing aroung. Sure u ****ed up, but it was still an accident (batting eyes with an evil smirk on the face)
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:40 PM   #125
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Some good discussion here.

One of the posts mentioned experience that older riders have. Experience doesn't help when you are still pushing it, no matter how many years you've ridden.

MotoGP riders, who have been racing for years and have lots of experience with speed and turns still crash; I wouldn't base it on experience alone. Out of so many races, a trackrider/racer will crash so and so many times. Taking those odds onto the street is not a smart game.
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:43 PM   #126
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:54 PM   #127
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yup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godsuki
As one of the elder riders, it is not always a matter of skill, or luck. But usually a combination of both. I have been riding for 29 years, and have had more than my share of injuries, however all were on the track, be it dirt or asphalt. I've also seen more deaths and serious injuries, and lost numerous friends to the sport.

I have been an MSF instructor, as well as the village idiot. I don't like riding with newbies because of the risk that is involved with thier lack of skill. My patients wore out long ago. I do still take the occassional liking to one and try to mentor them and teach them not just how to ride, but how to survive.

I think our calling as the older riders should be to teach these younger guys just the same. We all get in our cliques and go, but there is a reason why we've made it this far, and lots of knowledge to be had. I have logged hundreds of thousands of street miles, and many, many thousands of track miles.

So I charge the rest of you older guys to spend some time with these younger guys and girls here, and teach them the skills they need to do this as long as we have. I make myself available to them as well.

And I challenge you younger riders to call upon us to teach you! Without that, sadly there will be many more Rogers to come.
i read it and i say yes sir, i have a lot to learn and i would be honored to receive those teachings from any of you guys
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Old 04-24-2007, 09:50 PM   #128
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Fate is BULLLSHIT!

If you believe in fate, then your entire life is already written for you and there is nothing you can do to change it.

If you truly feel that's the case, go jump out of a plane without a parachute, if it's not your time to die, you'll hit the ground and walk away.

Life is about odds. If you take unneccessary risks on a regular basis, odds are sooner or later you'll lose, simple as that.
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Old 04-24-2007, 10:02 PM   #129
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Old 04-24-2007, 10:40 PM   #130
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Old 04-24-2007, 10:59 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ownage
i've seen a guy on riply's believe it or not jump out of a plane and his chute failed...he fell 2,000 feet got up and walked away with NOT a scratch
Yep, and the fact he didn't die was LUCK, not fate.
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Old 04-24-2007, 11:05 PM   #132
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Old 04-25-2007, 06:48 AM   #133
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No, he just landed right.
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Old 04-25-2007, 07:05 AM   #134
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I left out a couple of important words the first time - there are very few real accidents - mostly it's unintended results from some "deliberate" action(s).

Driving a car drunk is not an accident. It was not an accident that Roger was going to fast - he did that on purpose. It just didn't go the way he wanted it to.

If you've ever sat on a jury and listened to a lawyer explain the difference between a true accident (ran a stop sign because brakes don't work due to line exploding) versus a deliberate action with unintended results (only slowed going through the stop sign instead of stopping and then hitting a car because of it) it might become clearer.

Thing is, most of the time, it's choices made, and the actions because of that choice, (not *fate*) that effects whether we live another day or we get discussed in the past tense.
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Old 04-25-2007, 10:19 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
Fate is BULLLSHIT!

If you believe in fate, then your entire life is already written for you and there is nothing you can do to change it.

If you truly feel that's the case, go jump out of a plane without a parachute, if it's not your time to die, you'll hit the ground and walk away.

Life is about odds. If you take unneccessary risks on a regular basis, odds are sooner or later you'll lose, simple as that.
It's a matter of opinion. But lets not call fate bullshyt. This is a weak argument against fate. You are fated to die. Is there currently anything capable of deterring such an event, for a while sure, but in the end you will succumb. What you do in life dictates whether or not that is an early or late life event. If you do stupid things, then it was fate acting on your person to do such things. You need to actually purchase food to eat it. If you don't believe in fate fine, but again, lets not call it bullshit. Think of life as a book, you know that in the beginning-you were born and end the end-you will die. The inbetween is already written, but you are more like a reader following the script through the pages. One needs to make choices-or read the words- in order to bring about the next chapters. Ever notice how just about everything you do in life leads up to everything else you do in life? In order for fate to be fulfilled, you needed to have carried out certain actions. Think about it, you are where you are today due to actions you've taken in the past. Reiteration: You were fated to be what you are, but you would never have gotten there had you not taken certain steps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FJRmgm
I left out a couple of important words the first time - there are very few real accidents - mostly it's unintended results from some "deliberate" action(s).

Driving a car drunk is not an accident. It was not an accident that Roger was going to fast - he did that on purpose. It just didn't go the way he wanted it to.

If you've ever sat on a jury and listened to a lawyer explain the difference between a true accident (ran a stop sign because brakes don't work due to line exploding) versus a deliberate action with unintended results (only slowed going through the stop sign instead of stopping and then hitting a car because of it) it might become clearer.
In the end an accident is, regardless of what you were doing to bring about the end results, an unintended end. I don't care how fast you were driving or how you accidentally fell out of the plane without putting on a shute. In the end, it WAS NOT your intention to experience the end result, whether that be death or bodily injury. Now you may have an argument against something like suicide, but I think we can all agree that if someone climbs to the top of the San Francisco bridge with the intention of killing themselves by launching themselves off of the bridge then that was no mere accident, they intended the results. Quite the contrast to someone hopping into the car highly inebriated but having the full intention of making it home. Sure their an idiot, but if they crash, it was not intended and therefore constitutes an accident.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FJRmgm
Thing is, most of the time, it's choices made, and the actions because of that choice, (not *fate*) that effects whether we live another day or we get discussed in the past tense.
How about this:

Your choices are what actualize your fate.

One more thing, concepts like fate are metaphysical concepts while things such as odds and accidents are actual physical, tangible items. There is no truly equitable means of comparing them.
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Old 04-25-2007, 11:42 AM   #136
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Old 04-25-2007, 12:07 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Think of life as a book, you know that in the beginning-you were born and end the end-you will die. The inbetween is already written, but you are more like a reader following the script through the pages. One needs to make choices-or read the words- in order to bring about the next chapters.
You are contradicting yourself here... if the inbetween is already written, then you truly have no choices. If that's the case, then would have predetermined who is going to and who is going to Heaven based on the actions that we have no choice but to fulfill. I don't believe that.

I believe everything we ever do, say, think or believe involves a choice... and they are all tests from . Those dictate the paths our lives will take and where our souls will go when we die.
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Old 04-25-2007, 12:15 PM   #138
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Sounds like fate is being used as another cover for irresponsibility here. Say for example in your mystical world you had the opportunity to see your future. Since you already know how it's going to happen why try if that's were you are going anyhow? It comes down to accountability folks. I've read the definitions of accidents posted here and dwi or speed related accidents are not true accidents. They were misscalculated risks. You ride like a hooligan, knowing it's not safe/smart, but still it's done under the rationalization that ....."I won't get a ticket or crash or hurt anyone". But when it all goes wrong it becomes and accident? That is BS! You take a gamble like that with your own life or someone else's everytime you exceed the speed limit, wheelie, stoppie, skid, or any other number of other infractions. Getting rearended at a stop light is an accident. Falling over trying to get on or off your bike is an accident. Dropping your helmet on the pavement is an accident. Riding triple digit speeds and running wide in a corner into oncomming traffic or off into the woods on public roads is irresponsibility at it's finest.
What kills me is people doing it regularly. How many times do you think you'll get away with it? The irregularities/conditions on public roads are too unpredictable for that kind of riding. If you've ever rode Cresson when it's chilly you know there is next to zero traction, it changes with every few degrees. What makes you think public roads are any different. How do you know a truck didn't blow it's engine in that corner last week, oiling down the road? A car fifteen minutes ahead of you didn't drop a wheel off the shoulder and spray gravel in that blind corner? How many friends do we have to lose before people wise up and accept respnsibility for the way they ride on the streets?
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Old 04-25-2007, 12:19 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Beasley
Sounds like fate is being used as another cover for irresponsibility here. Say for example in your mystical world you had the opportunity to see your future. Since you already know how it's going to happen why try if that's were you are going anyhow? It comes down to accountability folks. I've read the definitions of accidents posted here and dwi or speed related accidents are not true accidents. They were misscalculated risks. You ride like a hooligan, knowing it's not safe/smart, but still it's done under the rationalization that ....."I won't get a ticket or crash or hurt anyone". But when it all goes wrong it becomes and accident? That is BS! You take a gamble like that with your own life or someone else's everytime you exceed the speed limit, wheelie, stoppie, skid, or any other number of other infractions. Getting rearended at a stop light is an accident. Falling over trying to get on or off your bike is an accident. Dropping your helmet on the pavement is an accident. Riding triple digit speeds and running wide in a corner into oncomming traffic or off into the woods on public roads is irresponsibility at it's finest.
What kills me is people doing it regularly. How many times do you think you'll get away with it? The irregularities/conditions on public roads are too unpredictable for that kind of riding. If you've ever rode Cresson when it's chilly you know there is next to zero traction, it changes with every few degrees. What makes you think public roads are any different. How do you know a truck didn't blow it's engine in that corner last week, oiling down the road? A car fifteen minutes ahead of you didn't drop a wheel off the shoulder and spray gravel in that blind corner? How many friends do we have to lose before people wise up and accept respnsibility for the way they ride on the streets?
Brilliant!
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Old 04-25-2007, 12:23 PM   #140
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