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Old 01-16-2014, 08:58 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grsa View Post
The statement I want tho make I'd that it takes 9600 cars poor 1.92mm motorcycle tho the equivalent of a loaded semi. With that said I am issuing the 1:480 ratio of srmi tp cars and spplyong it to the bikes. That could be the wrong ratio but itis what I have at this time. Firtunztely I have some time ti work on this.
I'd just keep it simple. Commercial vehicles, buses, trucks and cars cause more wear, plus there are more of them on the road.

There are fewer motorcycles using the roads, plus they are much lighter
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:59 AM   #62
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another point perhaps is motorcycles dont cause debri like cars trucks and semis. when was the last time you seen a grocery bag or soda can on the side of the road. or blown tire... we aren't drinking sodas and riding or if we have a flat, its not like we leave debri for miles ( unless we wreck)
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Old 01-16-2014, 09:05 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuong-nutz View Post
How many minutes are you alotted to speak? I agree with everyone so far about the numbers of the 2 graphs. I'm gathering some more info regarding tolls in other states particulary California and New York City where there is an abundance of motorcyclists. I don't think the folks care much for what other countries are doing.

Omit "motorcyclist seldom text and ride at the same time". You don't want to mention any of the bad stuff that select few motos do since people see the bad only and not the good.
Three minutes at the most
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Im do not understand how you got to the numbers you did, and by that point I don't know if others would or not. I don't want that to get in the way of what your goal is. I would say keep it simple for them, just my 2 cents.
Numbers are always tricky. A semi is equal to 480 cars in road wear. Took that number and since a bike is 90% less in weight got that number. I will certainly tweak this
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Old 01-16-2014, 09:07 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by grsa View Post
Three minutes at the most
Can you roll your bike into commissioners court and do a three minute burnout? That will get you media coverage
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Old 01-16-2014, 09:21 AM   #65
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Why are motorcycles allowed in some HOV lanes?
Motorcycles are permitted by federal law to use HOV lanes, even with only one passenger. The rationale behind allowing motorcycles to use HOV lanes is that it is safer to keep two-wheeled vehicles moving than to have them travel in start-and-stop traffic conditions. States can choose to override this provision of federal law, if they determine that safety is at risk.

http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freewaymgmt/faq.htm#faq15

Lane use for safety by the NHTSA
http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/p...orcycle51.html

Braking:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/p...ycle45-46.html

A car can outbrake a motorcycle. Reduce accidents which leads to heavy congestion.

Well, it looks like California designates motorcycles as two axles and toll rates are the same. Screw you!
....but lane splitting is legal there.
http://bata.mtc.ca.gov/tolls/schedule.htm

On the other hand, New Jersey/New York offers discounted rates for toll use for motorcycles:
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/tolls.html
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnel...-2001-2015.pdf
http://www.thruway.ny.gov/ezpass/discount.html
http://web.mta.info/bandt/traffic/bt...ml#motorcycles

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news...ly-4784517.php
http://houston.culturemap.com/news/c...er-congestion/
http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/m...t-traffic.html

Perhaps by lowering cost of tolls, it may entice people to get a bike, since they will see the benefit time wise instead of sitting in traffic causing congestion. Keep Texas Moving.
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Old 01-16-2014, 09:28 AM   #66
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3 minutes is like nothing.

I'd ditch the graphs. Perhaps a picture comparing a motorcycle next to a car, truck, and semi will have more visual impact to compare weight (wear and tear), debris (less parts and rider can't litter or haul trash), and time (less space on the road, get up to speed faster). Throw in, "how many times while you're driving have you seen a driver text while driving. Then ask them, " now have you seen a motorcyclist text while riding his motorcycle?"

Also, the factor that causes congestion is everyone's reaction time, space between vehicles, and how long it take their vehicles to pick up speed to go. Motorcycles just naturally move faster.
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Old 01-16-2014, 11:45 AM   #67
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Quote:
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Great. I will go with what the premise that
1-Cars have more than two axles
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:04 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuong-nutz View Post

Perhaps by lowering cost of tolls, it may entice people to get a bike, since they will see the benefit time wise instead of sitting in traffic causing congestion. Keep Texas Moving.
I think that is also a valid point. More motorcycles=less congestion.

I know I personally got back on two wheels myself because I wanted to use the HOV...which has led to me exploring methods to reduce the tolls I pay(Illegally of course, just to clear that up)

But if this presentation works out in our favor, I'd probably pay the tolls like everyone else and my hat would be off to gsra
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:07 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grsa View Post
Three minutes at the most

Numbers are always tricky. A semi is equal to 480 cars in road wear. Took that number and since a bike is 90% less in weight got that number. I will certainly tweak this
You definitely don't want to exaggerate it in any way, shape or form. If the numbers seem unbelievable they may lose interest right off the bat because they think the numbers aren't right.
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:20 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelnutt View Post
You definitely don't want to exaggerate it in any way, shape or form. If the numbers seem unbelievable they may lose interest right off the bat because they think the numbers aren't right.
Now Now, it is not like the government themselves are above exaggerating anything. Are they?
OK mr. overweight comissioner I buy you a pair of running shoes and I buy you skinny comissioner the same pair. You walk the same distance over the same road for several months. Whos running shoes will show more wear and tear. That's right you mr overweight comissioner yours and now you have to buy another pair. and thats why motorcycles should pay less. Is that simple enough?
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:22 PM   #71
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Quote:
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Now Now, it is not like the government themselves are above exaggerating anything. Are they?
OK mr. overweight comissioner I buy you a pair of running shoes and I buy you skinny comissioner the same pair. You walk the same distance over the same road for several months. Whos running shoes will show more wear and tear. That's right you mr overweight comissioner yours and now you have to buy another pair. and thats why motorcycles should pay less. Is that simple enough?
Pretty much...I think what I was really trying to say is that it is hard to bullshit a bullshitter
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Old 01-16-2014, 01:42 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grsa View Post
Now Now, it is not like the government themselves are above exaggerating anything. Are they?
OK mr. overweight comissioner I buy you a pair of running shoes and I buy you skinny comissioner the same pair. You walk the same distance over the same road for several months. Whos running shoes will show more wear and tear. That's right you mr overweight comissioner yours and now you have to buy another pair. and thats why motorcycles should pay less. Is that simple enough?
I'd say you're close, but compare the skinny one to his fat wife.
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:01 PM   #73
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Quote:
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I'd say you're close, but compare the skinny one to his fat wife.
I will let you do that I'll just keep the analogy to the overweight and underweight men, safer that way.
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:14 PM   #74
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Another thing you could possibly look at is damage that accidents cause to public property vs motorcycles.

If a motorcyclist slams into a concrete barrier, it's probably just going to leave a mark with a little debris on the road. If a tractor trailer hits it, you've got a mess on your hands.

I'm sure there are some statistics that show this.
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:51 PM   #75
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Suggestions abound.
Going too stick wear and tear on road
Congestion
Environment
And o overweight vs underweight commissioners
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:54 PM   #76
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Old 01-16-2014, 05:03 PM   #77
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:13 PM   #78
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To all that have offered some help on this thank you. To those
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:44 PM   #79
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Just my two cents, but I'd wager that one will get further when dealing with government (city, county, state, fed etc) by arguing finances before ethics.


1 _ REDUCING TOLL-SKIPPERS

Truth is, unfortunately, bikes can and frequently will avoid tolls completely by riding off to the side of a toll lane. If the toll for bikes is significantly reduced (like 1/4th of a passenger car's rate), riders will likely decide to pay a few cents versus running the risk of skipping tolls.


2 _ SAFETY

Accidents cost the city (or county/state) money. Serious injuries put people in the hospital, and even with good medical insurance many people cannot afford large medical bills. These costs get passed on to the taxpayers, thereby costing the city money.

Tollroads tend to have more consistent rates of speed, and overall fewer entrances and exits, thus reducing the likelihood of lane changes. These conditions are safer for motorcyclists, and in turn encourage safe riding.

_MULTI-LANE TOLLROADS_
The number one area where motorcycle accidents are likely to occur is an intersection. If a rider avoids a tollway (such as BW8), they will thereby be riding through intersections and other more dangerous roadways.

_SINGLE-LANE TOLLROADS_
If a rider avoids toll lanes on a freeway (such as I-10), they are still in a more dangerous situation. Toll lanes as such are usually only one, maybe two lanes wide. Passing will be difficult, and usually unnecessary; plus traffic moves at a more consistent rate. The consistent speed combined with the lack of passing will reduce the rate of accidents. Given light to the fact that motorcycle accidents tend to have higher rates of serious injuries, keeping our riders safe is of utmost importance to our city - especially when considering the amount of money the taxpayers spend to cover the costs of accidents.

If riders are disinclined to take tollways due to costs and instead find themselves on "normal" multi-lane freeways, these riders and other vehicles are at higher risk. Bikes are hard to see, and accidents happen when people change lanes and hit someone they can't see. In bumper-to-bumper traffic bikes can overheat, causing a disabled vehicle. Also, bikes may be tempted to lane split and/or whiteline, which again is dangerous.

3 _ DOLLARS PER HOUR

Tollways are designed to make money. The more units-per-time (vehicles per minute/ hour/ day/ week/ etc) pass through the tolls, the faster the tolls make money. Since bikes take up less room, they increase the number of vehicles-per-time the tolls accrue. When a higher percentage of motorcycles is present on the tollways, congestion decreases. This allows more vehicles to enter the toll roads, plus the average speed of the flow of traffic is higher, and thus makes more money.


4 _ IN CASE OF EMERGENCY

Accidents do still happen. Fortunately, most bikes have little to no glass; other debris is usually limited to plastics or small lightweight parts. Plus, the vehicle itself is smaller. Smaller, lighter vehicles are less likely to push other vehicles into a loss of control - i.e. the kind of "pileup" that leaves disabled/wrecked vehicles blocking numerous lanes. In the event of an accident, a motorcycle wreck should theoretically be easier to clean up and clear quickly, and also (theoretically) should block fewer lanes. This is important when considering that people are paying to use certain roads, and that accidents will cut into this profit.


5 _ LONG-TERM ASSOCIATED COSTS

Having vehicles such as street-sweepers and other repair/maintenance trucks on the tollways congests traffic - thus reducing the tolls-per-hour rate - not to mention the fact that these vehicles cost money to operate. Motorcycles weigh less and do less damage to the roads, thus resulting in fewer costly road repairs. Ever see someone on a motorcycle roll down their window, empty an ashtray and toss out their fast food cup? Didn't think so. If there's an aluminum ladder in the middle of a road, or a bag of clothes, a sheet of plywood, or large chunks of truck tires, what is the likelihood that a motorcycle is responsible? Uh-huh.


6 _ IMAGE AND ECONOMY

By offering a significant discount to motorcycles on tollways, we foster the image of Houston as a "motorcycle-friendly" city. Appealing to any segment of the population will encourage people to live in this city, thus providing a boost to our economy. Also, higher numbers of motorcycles on the roadways results in less congestion, lower pollution, and ultimately helps promote Houston as a leader in "going green."

TO SUMMARIZE:

By offering discounts to motorcycle riders on tollways:
- more riders will be likely to pay the tolls than illegally skim past them, thus making $
- more riders will be inclined to take tollways than to avoid them, thus making $
- riders on tollroads are safer, thus reducing accidents and saving the city/county $
- motorcycles on tollroads reduce congestion and increase the flow of traffic, thus the $/hr rate the tolls make increases
- the conditions naturally present on tollroads are the kind most likely to encourage safe riding
- in the event of an accident, motorcycles are easier/faster to clear and will impede the fewest # of lanes, and thus have the lowest impact on the $-per-hour rate the tolls make
- motorcycles have extremely little long-term operating costs on the roadway; including the cleanup of debris, and road repairs.
- creating the image of a motorcycle-friendly city helps to bring people into Houston, thus boosting our economy
- ...and helps promote the image of Houston as a "green" city
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:03 AM   #80
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^Don't use I10 as example. Bikes ARE free on I10. I10 is HOV first, toll road second.
unless I misread your reasoning there.
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