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Old 01-15-2014, 08:44 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelnutt View Post
...I tend to agree that going in there and trying to tell the court that cars have three axles(even though they do) is going to be kind of a joke to them. I would go with less weight and the same amount of tires as one axle.
+1
They have no way to detect the axles anyway, that is just terminology as previously stated. Their detection method goes by a rotating wheel on one side of the vehicle. Rotating wheel = one axle irregardless of whether axle has one wheel mounted on it or four wheels. A dually registers as three axles but a truck with two wheels on each side of the rear axle registers as only two axles.


Quote:
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Whats the price difference between 2 axles and three axle vehicles? maybe they could reduce the toll that motorcycles pay by that difference.
Can be more than double if you're using an EZ Tag, another inequality. Say a particular stretch has a regular toll of $1.50 for two axles. with EZ Tag your discounted rate will be $1.30. Add a trailer and regular toll is now $3.00 and no EZ Tag discount. So you pay 130% more for only a 50% axle increase. And that extra single axle you are paying more for could be a 4ft long, 200lb trailer versus your typical full sized 6,000 lb pickup.

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Last edited by SilverBullet; 01-15-2014 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:48 AM   #22
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Quote:
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I tend to agree that going in there and trying to tell the court that cars have three axles(even though they do) is going to be kind of a joke to them.
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:03 AM   #23
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I wouldn't go in there trying to change their terminology and how they classify vehicles, basically telling them they are stupid and wrong.



Obviously lower weight vehicles do less wear and tear on the road. I could see using that argument for lower or no toll fee.

Glen is not the condescending type. He is more capable than most on this forum to go in there and make a logical and respectful case in favor of lowering rates for motorcycles. The current model payment by axle is only one aspect.
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:08 AM   #24
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Glen is not the condescending type. He is more capable than most on this forum to go in there and make a logical and respectful case in favor of lowering rates for motorcycles. The current model payment by axle is only one aspect.
I wasn't worried about Glen
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:09 AM   #25
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I found this on the US DOT website. The same argument could be used for the toll roads:

"Why are motorcycles allowed in some HOV lanes?
Motorcycles are permitted by federal law to use HOV lanes, even with only one passenger. The rationale behind allowing motorcycles to use HOV lanes is that it is safer to keep two-wheeled vehicles moving than to have them travel in start-and-stop traffic conditions. States can choose to override this provision of federal law, if they determine that safety is at risk."

of course this is just one of many arguments you could use.
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:09 AM   #26
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All I am asking for is an equitable charge for a bike. No more nj I less
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:46 AM   #27
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When you get the easy tag, they ask for make and model, blah blah blah, so it is fairly easy to translate that to the weight of the vehicle, which has the greatest impact on road deterioration. Showing some models on that angle will help as well. I only have fourteen days to put this together so any of you internet research wizards that come up with additional info let me know.
Just for tmax I will include TollRoads free for motocycles means less lane splitting.
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:57 AM   #28
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Man i avoid HOV sometimes just to split. And sometimes its faster.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:05 AM   #29
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Man i avoid HOV sometimes just to split. And sometimes its faster.
Yeah it me off when you're in the HOV on heavy traffic days and the other traffic starts moving faster than you are. It's a lot worse now that it's also a toll lane.
I know of some people who pass on the HOV, but that's a little too sketchy for me.

You lane split on 290? those are some narrow lanes...

Anyways I'm interested in hearing what the court will have to say about this. I'll see if I can help dig up some info.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:07 AM   #30
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Thanks.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:11 AM   #31
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Yeah it me off when you're in the HOV on heavy traffic days and the other traffic starts moving faster than you are. It's a lot worse now that it's also a toll lane.
I know of some people who pass on the HOV, but that's a little too sketchy for me.

You lane split on 290? those are some narrow lanes...

Anyways I'm interested in hearing what the court will have to say about this. I'll see if I can help dig up some info.
290 between 610-1960 are narrow. Occasionally when its there.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:38 AM   #32
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Quote:
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I like this idea. But maybe it will have a negative effect. What if they like the thought of lower motorcycle prices but in turn add/increase the toll detecting equipment to fully detect motorcycles? Now instead of paying one toll out of 20 I pay 20/20 thus increasing my bottom line cost to ride on the toll highways...
They could just issue you a toll tag that has a diff chipset than the one cars get, and bill the chip as you pass through the diff tolls. Or they can just upgrade the software to bill based off of serial numbers.


And obviously when you go in to get the new toll tag they can verify you drive a bike, it's registered to you and your licensed.
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:48 AM   #33
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Glen, if you're going to use the axle argument, I'd only use it as a basis for roadway wear & tear comparison in toll inequality. If 3 axles are charged more than 2 because of increased road wear, then it makes logical sense to further reduce the toll for motorcycles based on weight and road contact.
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:48 AM   #34
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Glen, DORC outing after?
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Old 01-15-2014, 12:13 PM   #35
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I would avoid the "less congestion, less traffic, take up less space" arguement.

Every one of us wants just as much room... or more... than a 4 wheel vehicle. That argument works for parking... but not on the roads. In fact, it's the opposite... if 4 of us were going somewhere, we could be in one car, or 2-4 bikes (taking up 3 car lengths if we're riding like friends... I give strangers more room). At a glimpse, it may work... but it's not something I want to encourage.

Maybe Environmental
Part of the HOV arguement is also the environmental effect. You COULD throw that in... encouraging more people to ride is "better for the environment". Just leave out the facts about the actual polution from a bike (though they are getting better with cats/tuning), or the polution of multiple bikes vs carpooling . But... environmental isn't a driving reason for toll roads, like it is for HOV.
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Old 01-15-2014, 12:52 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelnutt View Post
I found this on the US DOT website. The same argument could be used for the toll roads:

"Why are motorcycles allowed in some HOV lanes?
Motorcycles are permitted by federal law to use HOV lanes, even with only one passenger. The rationale behind allowing motorcycles to use HOV lanes is that it is safer to keep two-wheeled vehicles moving than to have them travel in start-and-stop traffic conditions. States can choose to override this provision of federal law, if they determine that safety is at risk."

of course this is just one of many arguments you could use.

That's the ticket...Safety.

You could argue that lowering the rates would encourage more riders to use the tollway, avoiding long circuitious routes with histories of accidents.

You could use this map to show how many deadly highway miles could be avoided by motorcyclists, if only you would lower the rates for, or something like that.

http://www.saferoadmaps.org/
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Old 01-15-2014, 04:05 PM   #37
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Interesting. I just got a phone call from HCTRA regarding appearing at Comissioners court. They are interested in discussing the matter off-line I guess. Well will give them a call and see what they say.
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Old 01-15-2014, 05:57 PM   #38
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Huh. Makes sense though, rather than letting any yahoo ramble about whatever they want. Or at least make sure you are intelligable before giving the go ahead.
If it's minor or already in the works, maybe they'd offer a solution (I think this falls higher than that though).
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:17 PM   #39
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Interesting. I just got a phone call from HCTRA regarding appearing at Comissioners court. They are interested in discussing the matter off-line I guess. Well will give them a call and see what they say.

Take the cash payout to shut up that they offer! Forget about the rest of us.
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:15 PM   #40
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Quote:
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Interesting. I just got a phone call from HCTRA regarding appearing at Comissioners court. They are interested in discussing the matter off-line I guess. Well will give them a call and see what they say.
Tell them if they don't reduce the rates you will go to the courts and if that doesn't work, tell them I'm going to start manufacturing cheapo flip tags and they aren't going to get a dime from us!
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