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View Poll Results: What would you choose to do?
Keep the groups (levels) the way they are 33 84.62%
Give up 5 minutes and add a 4th group 6 15.38%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-05-2013, 03:53 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Does that work, though? I mean...let's take CMRA for example. Pick any class, and look at the first round laptimes at TWS (Texas World Speedway). Then look at the October laptimes. Did everyone get 20 seconds faster? Or was there weather issues? How do set a hard, fast laptime requirement that takes this into account?
Your just over analyzing it now. Set a lap time. Lenient ask Mike said. 1:55s msrh or whatever. But enforce them. The problem is there just not enforced now.
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:56 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Except what's actually going to happen is everyone will be "silo'ed" with whomever they did their first trackday with as no one wants to away $70 worth of tracktime.
I did level 1 with at least two, if not 3 different track day orgs before i ever did a lvl 2...not so sure that would be an issue. Most guys do several lvl 1 days before moving up a lvl. You did a few, I know I did at least 10 or 12.
and with my health issues this last year, when next season rolls around I will probably do a couple or more lvl 1 before i go back to lvl 2 again.
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Old 12-05-2013, 04:02 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obed View Post
I did level 1 with at least two, if not 3 different track day orgs before i ever did a lvl 2...not so sure that would be an issue. Most guys do several lvl 1 days before moving up a lvl. You did a few, I know I did at least 10 or 12.
and with my health issues this last year, when next season rolls around I will probably do a couple or more lvl 1 before i go back to lvl 2 again.
you have this thing called wisdom....not all young bucks think like this. I am toying with attending a few trackdays in the near future now that I have a SS again. I was a level 3 rider when I exited the game...(or so I thought I was), but there is no way I'd sign up for Level 1 if I come back. , I don't think I did level 1 when I started.... but those were the good days. Longhorn Trackdays...similar to whoops.

Last edited by dbuck; 12-05-2013 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 12-05-2013, 04:20 PM   #64
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as is

smart people work with the instructors before moving up

having more groups is just going to make things complicated.

Most importantly it would be a real pain in the for the grid.
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Old 12-05-2013, 04:29 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanXJ View Post
as is

smart people work with the instructors before moving up

having more groups is just going to make things complicated.

Most importantly it would be a real pain in the for the grid.
I agree with your first point, but would you explain the second and third points? How would it make it more complicated and how would it make the grids any more of pain in the ? For lvl 1, especially with Ride Smart the problem is the size of the grids, not how long it takes to get going.
Ivan has had a different experience than i have had on the days when i went, my personal experience has been that the most in number and greatest in severity when it comes to accidents and red flags has been in lvl2. It seems to have the widest range of "talent" guys who should really still be in lvl 1 on the track at the same time as guys who really could be in lvl 3. 4 groups might help eliminate that... The biggest issue in going to 4 groups is the expense to the riders... 4 groups not only means a bit less track time, it means more expense to the track org in instructors/control riders...
the loss of time is not really that big of a deal in learning, most guys don't really learn much after the first 10 minutes of a session anyway, their attention/focus degrades after that...
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Old 12-05-2013, 04:39 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obed View Post
I did level 1 with at least two, if not 3 different track day orgs before i ever did a lvl 2...not so sure that would be an issue. Most guys do several lvl 1 days before moving up a lvl. You did a few, I know I did at least 10 or 12.
and with my health issues this last year, when next season rolls around I will probably do a couple or more lvl 1 before i go back to lvl 2 again.
I had done 10 days with LSTD and probably 5 with Hallett before ever even hearing of ridesmart. Under the system that was proposed...I'd have to register for L1 with ridesmart with that level of experience. And then I'd have to spend all morning proving that I was fast enough. The likely result is that I wouyld instead choose not to ride with ridesmart and do all of my trackdays with LSTD because I didn't want to waste a whole morning of track time just trying to get into the right group.

THAT'S the scenario I was attempting to lay out.
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Old 12-05-2013, 04:53 PM   #67
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I think it would be confusing to try and manage 4 groups form a grid prespective.

When there is a red flag and a group loses some time we have to adjust the schedule for the the next few sessions to make things fair. I think it would be even more difficult with another group.

It's hard enough for me to remember what group is next, adding a fourth option is going to have me stuttering on the PA

"""ovice 5 min to grid...nono int....I mean lvl 2.5....then tim comes on the radio "advanced is up next" AAAHHHHHHHH i'd go crazy

I agree with you on the intermediate group, I do see more flags there...but then I think back further and novice has thier monents in the PM...like russ who got taken out by another rider...

There are records, and if someone wanted to they could go pull some stats out of those... it would be interesting.

Maybe after a few days the kinks could get worked out, but after a few disaster days the grid might be empty...
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Old 12-05-2013, 05:12 PM   #68
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Quote:
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I remember when I was in level one alwaysgetting with the bad crashes in level three...an they were always right at the end of the session two.

In level two, I dont remember getting screwed too much by level one wrecks...those are the easy red flags.

level two was hit or miss....but if I'm not mistaken when level three rider goes down, he goes donw hard and takes more time..
Nah. Its different now level 2 has the most crashes and level 1.
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Old 12-05-2013, 05:13 PM   #69
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Urban, why not just enforce 3? Set a time and if people aren't reaching it, bump them down. If there is no room in 2 well, they just lost their day for signing up in the wrong level.

Add this on the website so people know before they register.

Problem solved.
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Old 12-05-2013, 05:28 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
If common sense had anything to do with it, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Yes, but you're referring to the common sense of the students, I'm referring to the common sense of the instructors that would be enforcing the guidelines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
I had done 10 days with LSTD and probably 5 with Hallett before ever even hearing of ridesmart. Under the system that was proposed...I'd have to register for L1 with ridesmart with that level of experience. And then I'd have to spend all morning proving that I was fast enough. The likely result is that I wouyld instead choose not to ride with ridesmart and do all of my trackdays with LSTD because I didn't want to waste a whole morning of track time just trying to get into the right group.

THAT'S the scenario I was attempting to lay out.
Which wouldn't be the case. Like mentioned, if something like that did go in place, there would be an exclusion process that would happen pre-registration, not post. We don't want you to waste your time either. lol @ 'all morning'. It takes a lap, if that, with warm tires for an instructor to know if you're fast enough. If you had proof of registering with a certain level with another organization - or if you have a CMRA license and we can access track times via CMRA's website, that would be easy. If not, we would still allow you to do whatever level you wanted, but you would go out with an instructor for your first session. If you aren't ready for the level you signed up for, you will be bumped down. If there's not space, you will wait until there is.
-Cody
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Old 12-05-2013, 05:29 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umayr View Post
Nah. Its different now level 2 has the most crashes and level 1.

NewRider has a bit of a point. There's significantly more crahses in L2, but the ones in L3 tend to be worse. Because speed.
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Old 12-05-2013, 05:31 PM   #72
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And something else - if you see a problem on track, let the TRACK MARSHAL know. All of these veteran riders complaining about slow riders, and no one ever says anything to the track marshal. It's so frustrating to me I just have to laugh about it. It never fails that people come online saying how they saw this dangerous situation, but no one ever tells the track marshal.

As a corner worker, track marshal, and instructor - I've bumped SEVERAL people down. Some of them I've seen myself, other times they were reported to me and we put them on the clock.

IF YOU HAVE ISSUES, REPORT THEM TO THE TRACK MARSHAL.
-Cody
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Old 12-05-2013, 05:59 PM   #73
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Geezus Keerist.

Some of these ideas clearly point to bureaucratic thinking, all you complicated theory SOB's work for the government?

Sign up as best as you can predict, if you don't know, go Beginner Level or ask for an instructor's opinion.

Move up as you get better.

If someone signs up in the wrong group, it doesn't take long to figure out. Control riders should/will bump them down.

Common sense had worked for LSTD for over 13 years.

The reality is, I don't think it is a major problem at ANY org currently running in the area.
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:27 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exalted512 View Post
And something else - if you see a problem on track, let the TRACK MARSHAL know. All of these veteran riders complaining about slow riders, and no one ever says anything to the track marshal. It's so frustrating to me I just have to laugh about it. It never fails that people come online saying how they saw this dangerous situation, but no one ever tells the track marshal.

As a corner worker, track marshal, and instructor - I've bumped SEVERAL people down. Some of them I've seen myself, other times they were reported to me and we put them on the clock.

IF YOU HAVE ISSUES, REPORT THEM TO THE TRACK MARSHAL.
-Cody

I'm going go report you to the TM next time Cody!

Jk, you ready to race next year buddy?
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:36 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exalted512 View Post
And something else - if you see a problem on track, let the TRACK MARSHAL know. All of these veteran riders complaining about slow riders, and no one ever says anything to the track marshal. It's so frustrating to me I just have to laugh about it. It never fails that people come online saying how they saw this dangerous situation, but no one ever tells the track marshal.

As a corner worker, track marshal, and instructor - I've bumped SEVERAL people down. Some of them I've seen myself, other times they were reported to me and we put them on the clock.

IF YOU HAVE ISSUES, REPORT THEM TO THE TRACK MARSHAL.
-Cody
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:54 PM   #76
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If you have enough experience to be in level II, then you will immediately notice someone riding over their head. Give them some room, they will remove themselves from the group soon enough. Problem solved.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:14 PM   #77
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If you have enough experience to be in level II, then you will immediately notice someone riding over their head. Give them some room, they will remove themselves from the group soon enough. Problem solved.
I agree and for the most part they pose a danger to themselves more than anyone else.

I did level 2 Saturday at TWS (Texas World Speedway) and jumped to advance level on Sunday at MSRH. I would have prefer to jump with Ride Smart rather than Fastline but I'm more familiar with MSRH. I actually dropped my baby on the first lap, luckily on the grass, isn't that I was over my head but rather that I was preoccupied with my lap time vs the fast riders. But thanks to a couple of crack ribs and some good advise from Cari I went out for two more sections with a different mine set.

The riders passing me on the outside at the keyhole and at diamonds edge they know what they're doing so don't focus on them but on myself.
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:09 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 392 View Post
I'm going go report you to the TM next time Cody!

Jk, you ready to race next year buddy?
Probably only going to race a couple rounds. Just bought land and my money will be going to that this year. I also committed to do some endurance racing this year, which means sprint funds are going to be shared with that as well.
-Cody
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