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Old 10-28-2013, 11:56 PM   #1
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BORC vs. Track

I'm not certain of the relevance, but I've noticed a decrease in forum activity since the BORC came around. Over the past year I've made a few observations.

The similarities:

1. It's about speed

2. Both have their routes memorized.

3. Skill is paramount to keeping the rubber on the road.

The difference:

BORC doesn't trade paint in the turns.

Want to get in a BORC vs. track vs. everyone else match? Get on a road or track that no one has been on before. It's one thing to know your surroundings, but it's entirely different to be able to observe, adapt and overcome.

*Disclaimer: I am not personally challenging anyone. I just think the drama is detrimental to a public forum.*

It also encourages riders to engage in activities beyond their skill level. Just as unskilled riders have a responsibility to ride within their limits, we...as a community...have a responsibility to minimize the risk to unskilled riders. Frank took his invitations to PM/text only for a reason. While I don't agree with everything Frank does or says, private haul rides were a good move.

It should raise concern that this year BORC rides and Sunday rides have had a similar number of riders go down (and more fatalities) than a level two track day.

I predict that most dissenting opinions will have some kind of BORC or Wednesday night affiliation. My give a level: ZERO.

I've had this conversation with several forum members in person, and I believe it's past time these sentiments were laid out here.
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:16 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinball View Post
I'm not certain of the relevance, but I've noticed a decrease in forum activity since the BORC came around. Over the past year I've made a few observations.
I brought this up to the mods months ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinball View Post
*Disclaimer: I am not personally challenging anyone. I just think the drama is detrimental to a public forum.*
I know one of your threads was closed a while back in an effort to curb drama.
I get where you're coming from, let's hope this thread doesn't become what you were hoping it wouldn't.
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Last edited by a forum moderator; 10-29-2013 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:28 AM   #3
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I've done both, so I know the pros and cons... (seems like its a no-brainer, but apparently not).

I'd be curious to know the numbers... Crashes and injuries between the two groups.
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:32 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helios View Post
I brought this up to the mods months ago.



I know one of your threads was closed a while back in an effort to curb drama.
I get where you're coming from, let's hope this thread doesn't become what you were hoping it wouldn't.
This one shouldn't have as much potential for finger pointing as the one that got closed. It's meant more as a statement than as a discussion topic. You can lock the thread if you want. Given the title, I'm sure it will get plenty of views even if locked.
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:48 AM   #5
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[QUOTE=pinball;3679274]It also encourages riders to engage in activities beyond their skill level. Just as unskilled riders have a responsibility to ride within their limits, we...as a community...have a responsibility to minimize the risk to unskilled riders. Frank took his invitations to PM/text only for a reason. While I don't agree with everything Frank does or says, private haul rides were a good move.

It should raise concern that this year BORC rides and Sunday rides have had a similar number of riders go down (and more fatalities) than a level two track day.


IMO its not BORC or any group of riders that would slow the forum down. A lot of trolling (guilty myself), over opinionated posts when people ask for specific help, and just flat out dumb remarks back to a noob when a question is asked that some my find dumb.

I came to the forum in April ... see a lot of people join but never engage in the forum. I have been on the net for 20 years so I am use to the hazing and trolling. Others are not. I like the picking and poking sometimes but some do take it overboard. I have wanted to spit fire at some of the responses I have received when asking a question but it goes with the internet just like in real life .. sometimes you just wanna punch people for the that comes out of their mouth but you refrain because you know they just cant help being what they are.

In terms of group rides and downed riders / loss of life .. you have to put that on the individual riding the machine. The BORC guys go fast ... plain and simple. They tell people ... we are going to go fast. Anyone with little to no experience who tries to follow these guys is not mature enough to be on the machine. I have never been on a BORC ride and never will .. not because of the guys are bad its just out of my zone. I never went on Franks rides because it never fit my schedule. I heard this and that but I honestly think Frank tried to control his rides and keep people safe. You can not control the speed junky who rides outside of their level. It sucks that Frank had to take his rides off to PM but it had to be done. It is one less group ride for new people to enjoy but I think for his peace of mind it had to be done.

I have enjoyed this forum. Good information and some examples of bad to avoid. For a balanced person who respects the machine its a wonderful source of information and a good group of people to meet up with.

The other thing that goes with a forum is your people that keep the forum alive ... normally cause the most drama at the same time. Many are getting banned for this and that ... they get and move on to something else. Reading old threads there are quite a few heavy posters that are no longer welcome on this forum based on the permanent ban hammer levied against them. I do not think you should just let people cause chaos but when you drive away some of the life of your forum it creates a void and you get a ghost town. A little drama keeps things fresh and exciting for people ... too much drama and it gets out of control. The mods have to find that comfort level and not rule with an iron fist all the time. Slap em around keep in check ... really step too far out of line you get a long time out. IMO you would have to really become a threat to breaking apart the community to be banned for life.

Forum communities roll in cycles ... 2008-2013 is a good run for a forum to still have this much activity. Many die out quick ... MH has a good base and good core of people who keep this place alive. Run anymore of them off without new strong personalities coming in this place will become a ghost town.

Last edited by Rowdy76; 10-29-2013 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:52 AM   #6
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I prefer the track. I have rolled with the BORC, and SDRC. The track is a safer place for going out. Jim the Wolverene took a big hit for people like us, and we should listen.
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Old 10-29-2013, 05:42 AM   #7
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personally I noticed a reduced level of activity when newrider switched to bicycles.
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:06 AM   #8
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Every single BORC thread has some sort of gay undertone and I agree, their rides shouldn't be posted publicly.
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
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I prefer the track. I have rolled with the BORC, and SDRC. The track is a safer place for going out. Jim the Wolverene took a big hit for people like us, and we should listen.
Amen to that brother. I was the rider right behind Jim and we were not even going out... That was my last street ride right there... So no 3 sisters for me this year but I got to ride 3 new tracks... COTA, Barber and ECR. Wanna go out and learn some skills with a real pro guy on a safe environment just take a Whoop day class. simple as that.
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:04 AM   #10
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I gave this thread 5 stars.
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:20 AM   #11
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I gave this thread 5 stars.
I am fairly new to the sport bike scene, and I personally wont ride the streets out. To many unknown factors. To many variables above and beyond weather, temp, terrain, cops, etc... Ya never know when you round that corner out and there is a kid on a bicycle in your lane, or a stalled POS left on the road. , I've even been in blind curve and had an oncoming car in my lane passing a semi truck, and had to take the shoulder to avoid a head on collision.

Nah.. I'll ride the streets like its a street, and the track like its a raceway. That's just me 2 cents worth.
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:37 AM   #12
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For some riders taking a corner at 90mph = BORC, same corner taken by a more experienced rider @ 120mph = moderate pace.. Within comfort zone...
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
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For some riders taking a corner at 90mph = BORC, same corner taken by a more experienced rider @ 120mph = moderate pace.. Within comfort zone...
or 35 mph on a GROM.
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:29 AM   #14
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or 35 mph on a GROM.
Lol yeah! " pushing the envelope"
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:32 AM   #15
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I personally liked the "route gang".

Renzo FTW!

I think Rowdy hit the nail on the head on a couple spots in his post.
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:34 AM   #16
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I miss the forest gnomes.
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:57 AM   #17
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I miss the forest gnomes.
Indeed
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:06 AM   #18
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Not sure if the culmination and creation of BORC has caused the reduction in forum activity over the last year or so; but one thing I have noticed since I have been on here is that some people take things way to serious! The forum is designed to be a community for knowledge and also for fun; but there seems to be a lot of sensitivity on here. Stop taking things so serious people and have fun!
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:11 AM   #19
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or 35 mph on a GROM.
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:17 AM   #20
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BORC is just a renamed ride that has been going on for yrs.. nothing new
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