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Old 04-10-2007, 01:26 PM   #21
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lol and once our presence isnt there they will wonder why we arent helping.
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Old 04-10-2007, 01:28 PM   #22
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wonder how hard will sean hannity and rush spin this.
Who cares, he was asking for MH opinions not who can rebut tv heads the best.:confused2
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Old 04-10-2007, 01:32 PM   #23
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I think that they closer we get to pulling out the more you will hear about Iraqi's wanting us out and protesting the US. Easier to put the blame on them when things go sour after we leave.
Then they'll cry about how we abandoned them, and then Iran that keeps Iraq insurgents and uses sadr as a puppet will walk in and take the country without a fight.
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Old 04-10-2007, 01:37 PM   #24
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We shouldn't abandon them, cause we phucked em up in the 1st place, but I think they feel it's already broke now, you'll (the americans) will only make it worse trying to clean it up.
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Old 04-10-2007, 01:41 PM   #25
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Sean, dude, seriously.....have you forgotten about a certain election that spelled it out for everyone? Popular vote doesnt get presidents in office! It merely votes for people who "might" vote similarly.
We've all gone through the this electoral college argument before...I understand that the popular vote does not elect the president but the electoral college is not the problem. There was a purpose to the electoral college and it is not as if a district votes for Candidate A but the districts representative for his/her own reasons chooses Candidate B instead. The representative for individual districts votes for who THAT district voted for. There is no might or maybe about it...though there are no true legal ramifications, electors have historically voted for those candidates which their district majorily voted for and are subject to having their votes removed should they go against the grain if you will. Here is a snippet of info on the topic:

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The Supreme Court has held that the Constitution does not require that electors be completely free to act as they choose and therefore, political parties may extract pledges from electors to vote for the parties' nominees. Some State laws provide that so-called "faithless electors" may be subject to fines or may be disqualified for casting an invalid vote and be replaced by a substitute elector.Link
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Old 04-10-2007, 01:42 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick H.I.C.
Then they'll cry about how we abandoned them, and then Iran that keeps Iraq insurgents and uses sadr as a puppet will walk in and take the country without a fight.
Which is exactly why I am against leaving Iraq...
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Old 04-10-2007, 01:45 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
We've all gone through the this electoral college argument before...I understand that the popular vote does not elect the president but the electoral college is not the problem. There was a purpose to the electoral college and it is not as if a district votes for Candidate A but the districts representative for his/her own reasons chooses Candidate B instead. The representative for individual districts votes for who THAT district voted for. There is no might or maybe about it...though there are no true legal ramifications, electors have historically voted for those candidates which their district majorily voted for and are subject to having their votes removed should they go against the grain if you will. Here is a snippet of info on the topic:
This is how I thought it went!!!
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Old 04-10-2007, 01:58 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick H.I.C.
Then they'll cry about how we abandoned them, and then Iran that keeps Iraq insurgents and uses sadr as a puppet will walk in and take the country without a fight.
That's what my money's on!
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Old 04-10-2007, 02:03 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
The Supreme Court has held that the Constitution does not require that electors be completely free to act as they choose and therefore, political parties may extract pledges from electors to vote for the parties' nominees. Some State laws provide that so-called "faithless electors" may be subject to fines or may be disqualified for casting an invalid vote and be replaced by a substitute elector.Link
Now, I did not have the privilege of reading THIS part! I obviously did not understand the "repercussions" of such "faithless" actions, which now leads me to believe it would pretty much be impossible for an elector to vote differently. However, can you verify that this has not happened before?
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Old 04-10-2007, 02:12 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jus10
Now, I did not have the privilege of reading THIS part! I obviously did not understand the "repercussions" of such "faithless" actions, which now leads me to believe it would pretty much be impossible for an elector to vote differently. However, can you verify that this has not happened before?
It didn't in the last 2 elections at least. Basically you win the state in the popular, you win the electoral votes of that state.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922901.html
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Old 04-10-2007, 02:15 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jus10
Now, I did not have the privilege of reading THIS part! I obviously did not understand the "repercussions" of such "faithless" actions, which now leads me to believe it would pretty much be impossible for an elector to vote differently. However, can you verify that this has not happened before?
Kinda hard to prove a negative! Can you prove it has ? And I pointed out that there were no legal ramifications to voting against your districts will, but you see that there are steps that can be taken to both revoke the vote-effectively making the bad vote NOT count- and replace the voter.
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Old 04-10-2007, 02:27 PM   #32
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Kinda hard to prove a negative! Can you prove it has ? And I pointed out that there were no legal ramifications to voting against your districts will, but you see that there are steps that can be taken to both revoke the vote-effectively making the bad vote NOT count- and replace the voter.
Passing the burden of proof are we?:icon_bigg No I cannot prove that this has happened. But if it cannot be proven that is has not happened either, how can we say it has or has not happened? (nice and twisted now, huh?)

I was merely asking out of curiosity, not trying to prove or disprove anything (at this point )
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Old 04-10-2007, 02:31 PM   #33
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so, back to Iraq...
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Old 04-10-2007, 02:47 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jus10
Passing the burden of proof are we?:icon_bigg No I cannot prove that this has happened. But if it cannot be proven that is has not happened either, how can we say it has or has not happened? (nice and twisted now, huh?)

I was merely asking out of curiosity, not trying to prove or disprove anything (at this point )
Lol...I wasn't sure if that was sarcasm or not. My bad, I can be a bit of an a$$hole at times...I'm working on it I swear Supposedly, about 99.99 percent of the time, they vote the popular will of their respective districts but I am still looking for more specific numbers. As for the burden of proof, credit it to the lawyer in me...:icon_bigg
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Old 04-10-2007, 02:49 PM   #35
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so, back to Iraq...
Yep back to Iraq...fcukin' shias...I swear we should bombed that Sadr when he had the shot. We would've had the same results that we see today, only a lil smirk on our face knowing HIS was sitting somewhere wondering what happened to his 21 virgins...
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