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Old 09-19-2013, 11:13 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donte View Post
But I also know that when im flying(what if feels like to me) I go wide on most turns that require me to, and im not that fast so I believe that going wide can be beneficial when at a faster pace.
As your pace increases, yes, you will use more of the track. That's what I meant when I said "drifting out on the power."

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Originally Posted by Thayleal View Post
Yes I see your point... In fact it has been something that I have thought about however.... having them drive to marks helps them understand that those marks exist
So why not set them inboard of the edge giving the faster dudes a little space around the outside? Especially when you're ridemart, and stating that your lvl1 classes are teaching street skills. Driving your streetbike precariously close to the dropoff doesn't sound like a useful skill.

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Originally Posted by Thayleal View Post
because you arent saying hey straight line drive to each one of these tip in points.
You're not actually saying anything. But you are, in effect, demonstrating this.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:17 AM   #82
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there's a lot of opportunities to pass in level 1 safely i feel like, its easy to pass in there. (even when i started track days)
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:32 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umayr View Post
there's a lot of opportunities to pass in level 1 safely i feel like, its easy to pass in there. (even when i started track days)
Not when you have 1000cc bikes that park it in a corner but then gun it on the straight, happened to me at 3T

Last edited by Donte; 09-19-2013 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:33 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umayr View Post
there's a lot of opportunities to pass in level 1 safely i feel like, its easy to pass in there. (even when i started track days)

There is a lot of room...................on the inside where they won't let you pass. I found myself waiting till the straights or taking horribly contorted lines to get things done.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:37 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donte View Post
Not when you have liter bikes that park it in a corner but then gun it on the straight, happened to me at 3T
its really hard to get a drive out on a 1000 so what you can do on a 600 is instead of being on their and trying to get the drive out on them you can space yourself behind that person so you can take the corner faster then them catching up to them and use that momentum to pass them easily. but sometimes you have like bunched up people in level 1, a group of like 10 people and you just dont to work through passing all those people so you can pit out real quick and then hop back on the track where there is open space
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:37 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
There is a lot of room...................on the inside where they won't let you pass. I found myself waiting till the straights or taking horribly contorted lines to get things done.
You ride in novice?
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:40 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umayr View Post
its really hard to get a drive out on a 1000 so what you can do on a 600 is instead of being on their and trying to get the drive out on them you can space yourself behind that person so you can take the corner faster then them catching up to them and use that momentum to pass them easily. but sometimes you have like bunched up people in level 1, a group of like 10 people and you just dont to work through passing all those people so you can pit out real quick and then hop back on the track where there is open space
Pretty much what I did, just hot pitted so I could be by my lonesome. I hated being bunched up with a lot of people but I do like to follow others lines to see if its better or faster.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:42 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umayr View Post
"just because you ride level 2 with a certain different org doesnt mean you can keep a intermediate pace with fastline. Which I now know that's complete bs.
I got the same speech when I did my first track day with fastline a couple years ago. I took their advice and went into level 1 despite having done a Level 2 day before. In the second round robin (where the instructor follows you), i was taking it easy in the straights and going hard in the corners. By the time I looked back on the front straight at TWS (Texas World Speedway) to let the riders pass me, they were a couple hundred yards behind me. So I just took off. It made for a pretty unenjoyable day. It irked me for a long time actually and I haven't been back since. Why they thought their levels were so much faster than everyone else's was beyond me. I've since got over it, but it's funny that its still happening a couple years later. I have a lot of friends that are instructors over there and I know they're not like that, which is why I finally changed my mind. I look forward to taking Brandon Cleland's class someday. He's a super nice guy who happens to be stupid fast too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
As a rider of a small displacement bike, you should be well aware that, ESPECIALLY at a beginner's pace, it's hardly ever applicable.

This is actually one of misgivings with all orgs lvl 1 instruction on ""the line."" They're showing people a line that actually makes them think steering towards the outer edge of the track (because nobody is actually drifting on the power out that wide) is what they're supposed to be doing...and then they tell you you can only pass on the outside.

So basically you're telling your slow riders to block the faster guys on purpose. Although they don't actually know it.
The reason organizations want people on the line is for predictability. If you tell people to only drift out as much as they need to, that would put people all over the track on the exit of a turn. How is that making it safer for people trying to pass?

If everyone is on the same line, it makes passing easier. We tell people to NOT pass on the outside exiting turns. Because people are drifting out.

What you are saying is HIGHLY misleading. Passing is allowed on the outside of SOME corners. You can pass wherever you want on the straights. So what you are saying is wrong. I'm not speaking for everyone, but I encourage my faster riders to work on their passing. Passing, like everything else on the track, is a skill that is acquired by practicing. I will not move someone up to level 2 if they can't pass someone safely in level 1. I tell my students this all the time. The key to passing is planning ahead. This goes from Level 1 students to the fastest guys in the world. When someone asked Ty Howard how he passed Danny Kelsey at TWS (Texas World Speedway), Ty said he actually rehearsed his drive and move coming out of T7 a few times before he actually made the pass. Umayr can confirm this, as I worked with him on this a little at TWS (Texas World Speedway). I encourage my students that are trying to pass a bike that might be faster...or at least equally as fast on the straights (when they are faster in the corners) to let the rider in front get a little bit ahead of them. As you are approaching the corner, time it to where you can be at your normal pace and close to the rider in front as that rider is drifting out. Hit a little bit of a late apex and come up under the rider on exit.

That's the safest way to pass. You get it done early on the straight, you get it done quickly, and the bike in front is drifting away from you.
-Cody
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:43 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donte View Post
Pretty much what I did, just hot pitted so I could be by my lonesome. I hated being bunched up with a lot of people but I do like to follow others lines to see if its better or faster.
yeah you were looking pretty good out there, just get comfortable passing though and get good at it... because when you move into level 2, passing is going to be harder. I saw that you were killing it in the chicane at TWS (Texas World Speedway) every time i saw you out there, i think youre almost ready or ready for level 2. Just have someone follow you
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:46 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exalted512 View Post

The reason organizations want people on the line is for predictability. If you tell people to only drift out as much as they need to, that would put people all over the track on the exit of a turn. How is that making it safer for people trying to pass?

If everyone is on the same line, it makes passing easier. We tell people to NOT pass on the outside exiting turns. Because people are drifting out.

What you are saying is HIGHLY misleading. Passing is allowed on the outside of SOME corners. You can pass wherever you want on the straights. So what you are saying is wrong. I'm not speaking for everyone, but I encourage my faster riders to work on their passing. Passing, like everything else on the track, is a skill that is acquired by practicing. I will not move someone up to level 2 if they can't pass someone safely in level 1. I tell my students this all the time. The key to passing is planning ahead. This goes from Level 1 students to the fastest guys in the world. When someone asked Ty Howard how he passed Danny Kelsey at TWS (Texas World Speedway), Ty said he actually rehearsed his drive and move coming out of T7 a few times before he actually made the pass. Umayr can confirm this, as I worked with him on this a little at TWS (Texas World Speedway). I encourage my students that are trying to pass a bike that might be faster...or at least equally as fast on the straights (when they are faster in the corners) to let the rider in front get a little bit ahead of them. As you are approaching the corner, time it to where you can be at your normal pace and close to the rider in front as that rider is drifting out. Hit a little bit of a late apex and come up under the rider on exit.

That's the safest way to pass. You get it done early on the straight, you get it done quickly, and the bike in front is drifting away from you.
-Cody

You should have read me following post
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:46 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GABRIEL View Post
You ride in novice?
Not anymore, but I did more days in novice than most people in this thread have done total trackdays.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:49 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
You should have read me following post
Passing on exit around the outside will always be a more dangerous pass than on the inside. That is why it is encouraged NOT to pass on the outside EXITING a corner. Yet you still keep repeating that Ride Smart doesn't allow that...which has never been said.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:54 AM   #93
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You should all know that novice is a wide range of skill levels.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:55 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umayr View Post
its really hard to get a drive out on a 1000 so what you can do on a 600 is instead of being on their and trying to get the drive out on them you can space yourself behind that person so you can take the corner faster then them catching up to them and use that momentum to pass them easily. but sometimes you have like bunched up people in level 1, a group of like 10 people and you just dont to work through passing all those people so you can pit out real quick and then hop back on the track where there is open space
Quote:
Originally Posted by exalted512 View Post

What you are saying is HIGHLY misleading. Passing is allowed on the outside of SOME corners. You can pass wherever you want on the straights. So what you are saying is wrong. I'm not speaking for everyone, but I encourage my faster riders to work on their passing. Passing, like everything else on the track, is a skill that is acquired by practicing. I will not move someone up to level 2 if they can't pass someone safely in level 1. I tell my students this all the time. The key to passing is planning ahead. This goes from Level 1 students to the fastest guys in the world. When someone asked Ty Howard how he passed Danny Kelsey at TWS (Texas World Speedway), Ty said he actually rehearsed his drive and move coming out of T7 a few times before he actually made the pass. Umayr can confirm this, as I worked with him on this a little at TWS (Texas World Speedway). I encourage my students that are trying to pass a bike that might be faster...or at least equally as fast on the straights (when they are faster in the corners) to let the rider in front get a little bit ahead of them. As you are approaching the corner, time it to where you can be at your normal pace and close to the rider in front as that rider is drifting out. Hit a little bit of a late apex and come up under the rider on exit.

That's the safest way to pass. You get it done early on the straight, you get it done quickly, and the bike in front is drifting away from you.
-Cody
yeah, my post i got from cody, i was telling him its harder to pass 1000's when he worked with me at TWS (Texas World Speedway) because i kept trying to win the drive out on them but it made sense i cant always get the drive out when i have a older 600
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:00 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exalted512 View Post
Passing on exit around the outside will always be a more dangerous pass than on the inside. That is why it is encouraged NOT to pass on the outside EXITING a corner. Yet you still keep repeating that Ride Smart doesn't allow that...which has never been said.
-Cody

Well, I haven't done a novice day with Ride Smart in two+ years so it could be that you've either changed your rules or improved your novice classes to better convey those rules so I'll take your word for it.
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:30 PM   #96
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It was like that when I did my first track day in 2010.
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:38 PM   #97
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Riders and CW's alike are taught the difference btwn an inside pass and a pass coming OUT of a turn. Once the bike is at apex or later, and standing up drifting out, it is no longer an inside pass. It is then very acceptable to get past ppl on the inside at this point. They are also told that this method is much safer than trying to pass on the outside when the rider in front is potentially drifting wide on exit. I've been doing TD's since 2009, and it's always been that way.
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:59 PM   #98
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I've been doing TD's since 2009,
Young un....
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:45 PM   #99
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LOL Yeah. (Thanks for calling me young, BTW, Staton. HAHA!) But I've done over 70+ TD's.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:53 PM   #100
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Well since I started doing Trackdays in 2012...
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