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Old 09-18-2013, 11:27 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hung View Post
Lots of good info and amazing post Trey! I'm sorry you had such a negative experience with your first TD but I assure you with more practice and more visits, you will learn to love the track and appreciate what it offers for every rider out there. You will be able to hone your core skills in quickly on your badass bike too.

Also, if you're the one who pitted with Kalip and crew, we have your fold-out table. Lol.
yes that was me ... I will get with yall to make arrangements to get it back.
Thanks for holding on to it for me.
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:44 AM   #62
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Quote:
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Thayleal .. thanks for the post man. It was good read. Not discounting any of the other posts but it was kinda the response I was looking to read. I really was concerned that by expressing my opinion the whole "stop your whining and crying" was coming .. which it has as I expect a few flames from the MH community .. it makes the world seem right lol.
Glad you got some benefit even if it was a long winded response.

As for the body position, etc. discussion. I am pretty well known for hanging off way more than I need to when I go into a corner. This has its advantages and disadvantages.

Advantages : Building muscle memory for when you are faster

DisAdvantages: You look like a slow asshat and your bike tips in way faster causing you to have to adjust to avoid running off the inside of the track.... ask me how I know.


At a track day consistency is priority number one. The line is number two... This will cause some controversy shortly. I say consistency is more important than the line because it makes you predictable even if you are doing it wrong other riders can see that and act accordingly to what you have been consistently riding. Being on the line helps you be consistent so it is a very close number 2. It eliminates most freak out moments.


So if you have consistency and the line you have the base building blocks for the other things like, throttle, braking, body position. From there you build up slowly. I was in level 1 for 10 track days...but I refused to succumb to peer pressure and I think it made me very consistent. I am not fast and I get alot of flack about being crash prone (Controllable + uncontrollable factors i.e. cold tire wash out, head shake, etc. ) I am on the line, I hit my marks and if I can't I slow down until I can. Then I pick one corner and work on the things I want to work on.

You don't want to try to do all of the things the first few track days... if you worry about braking hard into a corner, picking the throttle up earlier, correct body position you suffer from what I call "Jack of All Trades and Master of None" syndrome. I feel like that is too many things for your brain to focus on and do well... so pick one. For instance on my SV I realized with my low end torque I could get good drives... so for my first few track days I would pick a corner and work on picking the throttle up a little earlier each time through it until I found my limit. This helped me improve my drive outs..

Now my new milestone is braking... I admittedly am still terrified of braking.. I actually had an instructor one time tell me "Trey, there is a lever on the right side... that is your brakes."
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:28 AM   #63
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Bp of course is not as important at a slower pace but the reason it's mentioned in level 1 is bc it affects the contact patch of the tire. The more you're able to get your head, shoulders, and hips over the more upright the bike can be hence you're more on the meat of the tire. We need to get that out of the way early. Yes you may look like a tool but it starts a good habit for when you pick up the pace. In saying that you do what's comfortable for you. My bp ain't all that good. It's a work in progress. Here I am on a 250 at a TWS (Texas World Speedway) CMRA event. Click image for larger version

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Old 09-19-2013, 08:36 AM   #64
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Quote:
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One thing I'd like to offer. Ignore the bullshit about "body position". I hear those "in the know" telling new riders that they need to work on "bp". Horse hockey.

No offense as it applies to me as well, but concentrate on proper lines and bike placement, then braking and accelerating smoothly. As you get faster, then you can work on body position. I see lots of new riders out that have been coached on body position and they look like Tron going in slow motion.

The first priority is to get comfortable and have fun, the other stuff will develop over time.

Good luck, I hope to see you out there.

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Old 09-19-2013, 08:49 AM   #65
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Learning the line is number 1. I would agree with assessment that body position isn't incredibly important for a slower rider. We go over it in class and again on the instructor's bikes so people know the basics and what it should feel like.

But as I mentioned, line building is number 1. When I talk to my students after following them, I usually give them one or two corners to work on...and maybe one other thing with body position. Whether that's how they're gripping the bars, where the feet are, or to get their head down more. I don't think I've ever told a level 1 student to get their off more or to put their knee out. Like mentioned, it's just not necessary. And in level 1, most of the time it leads them to being crossed up. I try to emphasize to my students to lead with your head and your body will follow.

So why work on body position at all? Well, the emphasis in level 1 is to become a better street rider. Learning the line on the track is important for the track, and it will help you develop your own lines for riding on the street, but for the street, I personally want as much tire on the pavement as I can. We never know if we'll see the rider again on the track, so we want to make sure we have done our part to teach them the correct way to do it and hopefully they can transfer that over to their street riding. So it's definitely important for us to communicate the right way to do things to hopefully prevent them from practicing bad habits.
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:51 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy76 View Post
These are my fav pics of the day ... again no knee draggin but I used every bit of track in that corner
Good . Is this what they're teaching you!?
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:16 AM   #67
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Quote:
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Good . Is this what they're teaching you!?
I think what he means is he wasn't limited by a lane. That is to say that when he was on the line correctly he used areas to drift out where it was applicable.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:18 AM   #68
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Take it slow, sometimes less is more, be smooth

I find watching my gopro video helpful.

Try a trackday org that only allows passing in the straights for novice/L1 (fastline).

You will never get a guarantee that some other rider is not going to take you out.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:44 AM   #69
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i like fastline, but holy mother of . for level 1 they only do round robin all day until lunch. and its a very slow round robin, when i first started track days i felt like doing round robin wasted half my track, and they arent cheap. round robin for the first session is cool, but for all of them until lunch?

with the other orgs you can work on the line still, and even have a instructor to follow if you want. or you can go work on some things at your own pace.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:47 AM   #70
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It gets progressivly faster each session. If you want to be in a faster group in novice just ask your instructor or tell everyone in the first novice meeting that you want to go fast.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:49 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thayleal View Post
I think what he means is he wasn't limited by a lane. That is to say that when he was on the line correctly he used areas to drift out where it was applicable.
This and I was referring to the how close i clipped that corner.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:58 AM   #72
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Quote:
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i like fastline, but holy mother of . for level 1 they only do round robin all day until lunch. and its a very slow round robin, when i first started track days i felt like doing round robin wasted half my track, and they arent cheap. round robin for the first session is cool, but for all of them until lunch?

with the other orgs you can work on the line still, and even have a instructor to follow if you want. or you can go work on some things at your own pace.
They don't do round robins for the first half...

Every time I have ever gone to FastLine it has been Round robin for the first round. Then the other morning sessions are a rider followed by an instructor followed by the other riders in the group. To me that is not a round robin since it is dictated by the rider being followed.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:59 AM   #73
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Working with a lot of novice riders, yes. Line is the most important. It would keep lots off riders from running wide and make the diffrence between making a turn and running off the track and almost crashing. I would much rather have students that find the line.

With that said BP is also very important. We get a wide range of students so we teach as much as we can. While some students are about ready for Intermediate we have students that cant find the line unless it was a real line painted on the ground or following an instuctor around. The students that are running at a faster pace need help with BP.
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:01 AM   #74
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Use round robbin to spot your markers and try alternate lines.
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:18 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umayr View Post
i like fastline, but holy mother of . for level 1 they only do round robin all day until lunch. and its a very slow round robin, when i first started track days i felt like doing round robin wasted half my track, and they arent cheap. round robin for the first session is cool, but for all of them until lunch?

with the other orgs you can work on the line still, and even have a instructor to follow if you want. or you can go work on some things at your own pace.
Are you saying you can't work on your line with fastline?

Fastline has instructors all over the track. When I was in Novice with FL the instructors are what made the track day worth it for me. Even in intermediate I get great tips to improve every trackday. These are coming form instructors that take the time to come up to me, maybe ask a question about what I was doing and offer some advice. What more could you ask for?

Sounds like you should have been in Intermediate anyway.

To the OP, don't get discouraged. Every TD will be more easy than the first one.

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Old 09-19-2013, 10:39 AM   #76
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No you can work on your line with any org, but I couldn't do it at my own pace.

the FL instructors are pretty good. And they got some faassssttt people. And possibly maybe should have signed up for intermediate, there was a lady that works for fastline and she just made it seem like all the levels were "faster" than other orgs which screwed up my first experience with FL. She said this "just because you ride level 2 with a certain different org doesnt mean you can keep a intermediate pace with fastline. Which I now know that's complete bs.
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:45 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thayleal View Post
I think what he means is he wasn't limited by a lane. That is to say that when he was on the line correctly he used areas to drift out where it was applicable.

As a rider of a small displacement bike, you should be well aware that, ESPECIALLY at a beginner's pace, it's hardly ever applicable.

This is actually one of misgivings with all orgs lvl 1 instruction on ""the line."" They're showing people a line that actually makes them think steering towards the outer edge of the track (because nobody is actually drifting on the power out that wide) is what they're supposed to be doing...and then they tell you you can only pass on the outside.

So basically you're telling your slow riders to block the faster guys on purpose. Although they don't actually know it.
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:59 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
As a rider of a small displacement bike, you should be well aware that, ESPECIALLY at a beginner's pace, it's hardly ever applicable.

This is actually one of misgivings with all orgs lvl 1 instruction on ""the line."" They're showing people a line that actually makes them think steering towards the outer edge of the track (because nobody is actually drifting on the power out that wide) is what they're supposed to be doing...and then they tell you you can only pass on the outside.

So basically you're telling your slow riders to block the faster guys on purpose. Although they don't actually know it.
Im going to chime in on this one, while I agree with you, I also disagree.
I know I have had my share of close calls when a slower rider is going wide to match the line when im trying to pass on the outside. But I also know that when im flying(what if feels like to me) I go wide on most turns that require me to, and im not that fast so I believe that going wide can be beneficial when at a faster pace. I do think that the instructors should show the wide lines in round robin but until you get to a faster pace don't just start going wide and maybe causing a lot of close call with people passing. The good news is that even if a slower riders is going wide there still predictable and you should know where there going.

Last edited by Donte; 09-19-2013 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:00 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
As a rider of a small displacement bike, you should be well aware that, ESPECIALLY at a beginner's pace, it's hardly ever applicable.

This is actually one of misgivings with all orgs lvl 1 instruction on ""the line."" They're showing people a line that actually makes them think steering towards the outer edge of the track (because nobody is actually drifting on the power out that wide) is what they're supposed to be doing...and then they tell you you can only pass on the outside.

So basically you're telling your slow riders to block the faster guys on purpose. Although they don't actually know it.
Yes I see your point... In fact it has been something that I have thought about however.... having them drive to marks helps them understand that those marks exist and provide that consistency because you arent saying hey straight line drive to each one of these tip in points. Yes on my small displacement alot of my lines are different, I round off "corners" and hit some markers a little less "conventionally"
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:10 AM   #80
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i like spinning my rear tire though
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