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Old 09-16-2013, 04:25 PM   #21
JC the Lawyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apehanger V View Post
JC The Lawyer, I am not that smart so could you elaborate on why and what charges could or should be brought and why. I assume you mean criminal charges, looks like a slam dunk wrongful death case which is civil.(no sarcasm there, genuine inquiry and desire to learn). As I read it and see it if the motorcycle was following at a certain distance or lane position to the preceding vehicle or the black color did not stand out against the vehicle trailing, it could have been genuinely obscured. If the lead vehicle is signaling, slows and begins to make it right, and the pick up only sees the lead and trail vehicles and not the bike in between, and pulls out to make what he deemed to be a safe left turn, how is it more than anything but a tragic accident. Doesn't appear to be any excessive speeds involved and I didn't see where they stated whether the rider was wearing a helmet or not. They usually do when we don't, so one might assume he was. It just happened to have occurred at an intersection where there have been issues with people running that stop sign. The report indicated the truck was stopped for heavy traffic. So I am confused help me understand.
No sweat, I love having discussions like this. I appreciate the questions.

If I understand it correctly, the truck had a stop sign and the motorcyclist did not. (If that's wrong, feel free to correct me). From a civil standpoint, the truck had a duty to ensure that the path was clear to proceed from the stop sign into the lane of traffic. The truck driver failed to ensure the path was clear. Rather, the truck driver saw an opportunity to proceed and "went for it." As a result, someone lost their life.

It is the definition of tragic AND, more importantly, it was avoidable.

If I had the opportunity to represent the family, this case would be settled very, very quickly given the liability factors as I understand them.

Riders need to do everything they can to make themselves seen on the road so that they stay alive/uninjured. That doesn't negate other drivers' responsibilities to follow the rules of the road.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:25 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC the Lawyer View Post
No sweat, I love having discussions like this. I appreciate the questions.

If I understand it correctly, the truck had a stop sign and the motorcyclist did not. (If that's wrong, feel free to correct me). From a civil standpoint, the truck had a duty to ensure that the path was clear to proceed from the stop sign into the lane of traffic. The truck driver failed to ensure the path was clear. Rather, the truck driver saw an opportunity to proceed and "went for it." As a result, someone lost their life.

It is the definition of tragic AND, more importantly, it was avoidable.

If I had the opportunity to represent the family, this case would be settled very, very quickly given the liability factors as I understand them.

Riders need to do everything they can to make themselves seen on the road so that they stay alive/uninjured. That doesn't negate other drivers' responsibilities to follow the rules of the road.
Pardon me for being a bit obtuse at best or an idiot at worse, but I'm not sure how one could prove that driver did NOT make a reasonable effort to ensure that the path was safe. The fact that he pulled into the lane would be indicate that he thought it was, only to discover a small vehicle had been obscured from his view. Looking at the scene pics the speeds involved appear to have been fairly low. The bikers skid marks start 15ft from impact so its hard to tell how fast he going from that. Looks like the impact happned in the center position of the lane bases on where they marked the skid. The truck has no skid marks outlined that I can see and came to wrest after impact with in its own car length. It may have even been stopped. The following car saw the whole thing and the cops did take the driver in to custody despite a eyewitness who remained on scene. I think if I'm the driver off the pick up I fight this one. He likely loose in a wrongful death case becasue a death occured as a result of his actions that can't be disputed, but I don't see an easy win or big settlement for anything esle. This one unfortunately for everyone involved looks like just one of the times when there is nothing anyone could have done better. I'm not asking you to give a law degree in a RIP thread but I do want understand my rights, forbid it happen to any of us. So what exactly could he be charges with Criminally and Civilly?

What I have learned is that left turners no matter where they are, are HUGE danger to anyone on two wheels.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:57 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apehanger V View Post
The fact that he pulled into the lane would be indicate that he thought it was...

Someone texting while driving or DUI could also think they're driving safely and making sound judgement.. Otherwise, why would they do it, right?

Thinking is pretty subjective, and I probably wouldn't build a legal defense around it





RIP to the rider
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Old 09-18-2013, 01:29 PM   #24
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Does anyone know if this guy was wearing any gear?
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:17 PM   #25
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RIP BROTHER
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:22 PM   #26
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R.I.p. To the rider and his family
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:14 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apehanger V View Post
Pardon me for being a bit obtuse at best or an idiot at worse, but I'm not sure how one could prove that driver did NOT make a reasonable effort to ensure that the path was safe. The fact that he pulled into the lane would be indicate that he thought it was, only to discover a small vehicle had been obscured from his view. Looking at the scene pics the speeds involved appear to have been fairly low. The bikers skid marks start 15ft from impact so its hard to tell how fast he going from that. Looks like the impact happned in the center position of the lane bases on where they marked the skid. The truck has no skid marks outlined that I can see and came to wrest after impact with in its own car length. It may have even been stopped. The following car saw the whole thing and the cops did take the driver in to custody despite a eyewitness who remained on scene. I think if I'm the driver off the pick up I fight this one. He likely loose in a wrongful death case becasue a death occured as a result of his actions that can't be disputed, but I don't see an easy win or big settlement for anything esle. This one unfortunately for everyone involved looks like just one of the times when there is nothing anyone could have done better. I'm not asking you to give a law degree in a RIP thread but I do want understand my rights, forbid it happen to any of us. So what exactly could he be charges with Criminally and Civilly?

What I have learned is that left turners no matter where they are, are HUGE danger to anyone on two wheels.
First off, you don't get 'charged' with a civil infraction, you are sued by a harmed party.

I don't get where you think that causing wrongful death is a civil matter - causing a death through negligence is manslaughter and is a felony crime. Were someone to disobey a traffic law, even unintentionally, and cause an accident resulting in death they could be charged with manslaughter. I'm not saying that's what should happen in this case because I don't know the facts but it could certainly be an option. Theoretically, the driver of the truck could face a criminal manslaughter charge as well as a civil wrongful death suit if such a claim was pressed by the deceased's family.
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:31 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by JC the Lawyer View Post
Reading that report, I can't understand how charges weren't brought against the truck driver.

Horrid story. RIP to the rider.
REad the article...
Quote:
Warren Diepraam assisted Conroe Police in the investigation. No charges are being filed at this time . However the investigation is continuing.
Charges do not have to be filed on the scene...
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:06 PM   #29
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RIP rider..thoughts go out to his family and friends
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:24 PM   #30
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Im looking at this accident trying to figure out what the rider could have done different.
There are always lessons to be learned. Joseph Madrigal paid the ultimate price. We shouldn't be afraid to examine the accident because he paid so dearly.

In a cage/bike accident, IMO you have two primary roles: accident maker, and accident avoider. I'll limit this to cager as accident maker.

Accident Maker: On cell phone, doing makeup in mirror, texting, drunk, unsound mental status or head planted square up the . This one is going to turn, stop, change lanes, or pull some other boneheaded just at a point where it catches the intrepid rider at the worst possible time.

Accident Avoider: That's us. Defensive riding is a , 'cuz we never get a break from the mental demands of paying attention.

But how does paying attention mean anything in this instance? It's our burden to recognize accident makers before they make their move. Cagers generally telegraph their moves. We have to learn to recognize the subtle signals and position ourselves defensively for escape/accident avoidance. Joseph was approaching an intersection with a vehicle waiting. That is a trap for us, as the longer a cage waits the lower their IQ gets.

We have to see that white truck waiting, we have to see how long he's been waiting, we have to see the trigger for the trap (truck in front of us turned, road appears clear to dumbass), we have to anticipate his move, and we have to catch it the moment he goes. This sounds like a lot, but you already do it. It's just that as a rider we assume greater responsibility for accident avoidance, because we pay such a higher price if we don't.

It appears Joseph was riding at or near posted speed, unimpaired, in good weather conditions. His machine appeared to be in road-worthy condition (going by tread available on tires). By most accounts he wasn't doing anything wrong. He just didn't recognize what was happening until it was too late. He failed to avoid. His failure was a singular event. We can turn his failure into success by becoming better riders, mindful of his lesson.

RIP
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:09 AM   #31
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I don't read anywhere that either side had a stop sign. The stop sign bit is a product of a poorly written article saying that this area is known for accidents because people blow through the stop sign. But the stop sign appears to be some distance away from where this accident occurred.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cashtown View Post
I don't get where you think that causing wrongful death is a civil matter - causing a death through negligence is manslaughter and is a felony crime. Were someone to disobey a traffic law, even unintentionally, and cause an accident resulting in death they could be charged with manslaughter. I'm not saying that's what should happen in this case because I don't know the facts but it could certainly be an option. Theoretically, the driver of the truck could face a criminal manslaughter charge as well as a civil wrongful death suit if such a claim was pressed by the deceased's family.
There is criminally negligent homicide which is a state jail felony, and manslaughter which is a 2nd degree felony.

Both are pretty close and it can be hard to distinguish between the two. Basically, you get charged with manslaughter if you acted recklessly. Acting recklessly is when you are aware your conduct could lead to death or injury but you conciously disregard it.

Criminally negligent homicide is when you act in a manner where you should be aware of a substantial risk of death or serious injury. The risk is of such a degree that it would be a "gross deviation" from how an ordinary person would act.

This is just paraphrasing. The definitions can be found in Texas Penal Code 6.03.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u...E/htm/PE.6.htm

Usually a mere violation of a traffic law would not be enough to trigger one of these charges. You would have to have something else like texting, street racing, driving while intoxicated (which is actually its own separate charge).
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:36 AM   #32
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Quote:
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I don't read anywhere that either side had a stop sign. The stop sign bit is a product of a poorly written article saying that this area is known for accidents because people blow through the stop sign. But the stop sign appears to be some distance away from where this accident occurred.
The stop sign the white truck held for is in one of the pictures.
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:05 AM   #33
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:06 AM   #34
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I did not look at the pictures. If the truck ran a stop sign (even if he parked, but ended up turning in front of the motorcycle, they still call it running a stop sign) then he should get cited for some kind of Class C traffic offense. And it would open him up to civil liability as JC pointed out.

But it still wouldn't amount to a higher criminal charge unless there was something more.
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