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Old 07-07-2013, 05:36 PM   #1
SGT USMC 0311
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Track Critique

Any constructive criticism is appreciated. Warmed up tires on 1st lap.

I know I have to work on body position because I was dragging my toe a few times in the corners.

Thanks...

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Old 07-07-2013, 05:54 PM   #2
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id recommend taking advice on here with a grain of salt. but if youre dragging your boot move your foot position back a little more, it should "pivot" on the end of rear set, making it easy to open/close your leg

edit: i just noticed you did your first track day i guess with extreme? they dont have any classroom sessions or anything for level 1. explains your line too, but anyway


This one helps explain the foot position thing more a little.

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Old 07-07-2013, 06:06 PM   #3
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first video pay attention to the guy in the hoodie. i heard he was fast
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:09 PM   #4
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[QUOTE=Umayr;3611059]id recommend taking advice on here with a grain of salt. but if youre dragging your boot move your foot position back a little more, it should "pivot" on the end of rear set, making it easy to open/close your leg

edit: i just noticed you did your first track day i guess with extreme? they dont have any classroom sessions or anything for level 1. explains your line too, but anyway

Thanks, Ty Howards video was excellent. Looking forward to working with an instructor with Track Tactics later this month at TWS (Texas World Speedway).

I did ride with Extreme yesterday, but not my 1st track day, have done a few with Ride Smart, LSTD and FL..this year moved up to level 2.

I would not recommend Extreme for anyone new to TDs.
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:45 PM   #5
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As far as your video goes, it looks good. Everything will come to you, but class instruction does help. There is just so much to share. If you choose to ride with any of the schools that do have classes, don't miss any of them, even in the afternoon. There is always something to gain. You don't use them all at one time, you work on one of the new things each time.

I found a video with REALLY good lines, and he's level 2 in the footage, so it's really just the next the step. But, he's probably level 3 by now. I would open two browser windows and have them side by side, you'll need to pause his since he'll be faster. But, it'll give you a great comparison of ideal lines.


[quote=SGT USMC 0311;3611073]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umayr View Post

I would not recommend Extreme for anyone new to TDs.
And that was my biggest criticism, that they would just kind of throw people out there. Kind of just taking the money and the person only benefits by riding their bike but not learning what could really benefit them, unless other people are willing to help. Rod and I brought a friend to a track day at GSS (Whoopie's) where there wasn't any class instruction. But, we watched the kid like a hawk and coached him, and he was receptive. I would suggest that Extreme refines their policy, that if someone is there in level 1, that they have an experienced buddy there to vouch for them, give the buddy a chance to go with them to show them the lines for a session, then the buddy goes to the level they signed up for?
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT USMC 0311 View Post

I would not recommend Extreme for anyone new to TDs.
Oops, I just saw I deleted something wrong on the previous post and made it look like Umayr was making the statement, sorry about that!
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:04 PM   #7
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Body position's not too bad, but you're still a bit crossed up. Try to get your head and shoulder over more so you'll be parallel with the bike when you hang off. The bike will want to be more upright, then you'll start noticing that you can take turns quicker. Also whenever you're coming out of the apex (like on turn 4), don't be afraid to get on the throttle a bit more and use all of the track to your advantage and not hug the turn all the way through. Faster pace will come for sure with more practice. Not bad at all though.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:24 PM   #8
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Agree with tommy but ive noticed that you are off the bike on the right side but not left side as much..
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:44 PM   #9
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:57 PM   #10
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I'm gonna grab some popcorn...

Asking for the interweb masses to critique your video isn't the best place for advice IMO.

Extreme is clear in stating they aren't for instruction. Nothing wrong with that at all. No need for anyone to point that out and then try to say you have bad lines insinuating it's the orgs fault for offering track access at a low price.

I'd suggest taking the video with you to any of the other orgs' future events when you are getting instruction and while you are there, show an instructor the video for some feedback from a knowledgeable person who is used to working with others. Not just some random person when they may be new to the track scene themselves.

FWIW, I didn't watch the video because there isn't anything I can offer of substance. And I've been doing track days since before 2000.

No offense intended to anyone, just sayin...
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:07 AM   #11
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:55 AM   #12
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Great comments, Umayr sharing Ty's video was exactly what I was hoping for, made perfect sense in connecting the dots in my head. Thanks Umayr!

I will continue to work with the instructors at FL, Ride Smart, TT and currently playing calendar tag with Woopie right now for some one on one instruction.

Track riding like all things in life are relevant, no one is born with skills...they are learned and are perishable without perfect practice. I am still learning to walk before I can run with the big dogs.

Now that I am trying to do more TDs regularly I hope to meet a bunch of you all out there!
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:22 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tojo92 View Post
I'm gonna grab some popcorn...

Asking for the interweb masses to critique your video isn't the best place for advice IMO.

Extreme is clear in stating they aren't for instruction. Nothing wrong with that at all. No need for anyone to point that out and then try to say you have bad lines insinuating it's the orgs fault for offering track access at a low price.

I'd suggest taking the video with you to any of the other orgs' future events when you are getting instruction and while you are there, show an instructor the video for some feedback from a knowledgeable person who is used to working with others. Not just some random person when they may be new to the track scene themselves.

FWIW, I didn't watch the video because there isn't anything I can offer of substance. And I've been doing track days since before 2000.

No offense intended to anyone, just sayin...

Actually, I never got this. I'm just wondering BC this is like the 5th time I've heard this in a short duration. Isn't the internet the perfect place? All kinds of experience on this forum. He can get free advice from people who will give it without having to go to lessons and pay for someone to tell him the same thing. Sure you'll have some rookie throw in his .02 but just ignore em. An old college professor used to tell us "Nobody is smarter then everybody, that's the reason the internet is the greatest invention today."
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:38 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K. Oliveira View Post
Actually, I never got this. I'm just wondering BC this is like the 5th time I've heard this in a short duration. Isn't the internet the perfect place? All kinds of experience on this forum. He can get free advice from people who will give it without having to go to lessons and pay for someone to tell him the same thing. Sure you'll have some rookie throw in his .02 but just ignore em. An old college professor used to tell us "Nobody is smarter then everybody, that's the reason the internet is the greatest invention today."
The main reason is because you don't always know who the "rookie " is (your phrase). I sat a track day event recently and had to listen to a person in the next paddock explain all sorts of total bullshit to a newb. The newb was listening to every bit of it. It was a lot of horrible advice. I just walked up to the newb and explained he would be better off speaking to an instructor because not everything that another track day rider will tell you is accurate. I didn't offer any recommendations as I am not an instructor and there sure as are faster riders than me that know a lot more and can teach it. The guy giving advice was not what I would classify as "skilled" in any sense of the word.

I have also seen where friends show up and try to "mentor" new riders. This was at a LSTD event. The instructors picked up on this and quickly put an end to it. The "mentor" spent so much time looking back helping their buddy, they were a risk to everyone else. They were shocked as they "did it all the time at other orgs". LSTD, Ride Smart, FL, and others offer instructors. Use them if you are at their event.

Just my 0.02, probably worth less.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:15 AM   #15
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I'll start at the 7:45 mark.

On the front straight, you should be closer to the wall at the top. This allows you to straighten up T1.

It's hard to tell, but it looks like you're hitting the transition (from oval to road course) in the middle of the road course track. That's the worse place to be, as it's the most abrupt transition from the oval to the road course. Going out wider or going in shallower is better, as it's smoother. If you pause at the 7:50 mark, you'll see the painted line to the left goes from white to yellow. I'm usually about 6' to the right from where it changes colors.

You can straighten up that turn a lot and it will allow you to carry more speed. It looks like you hit the black patch leading into T2 pretty well.

You should be the closest to the curbing in T2 where the curbing starts and get on the gas to let it drift you out. Then come back left to set up for T3.

T3 looked good, just way too far away from the curbing. You should be OVER the curbing.

Same with T4. You were closer, but probably still had a good 4' you could go. Get on the gas sooner and it should drift you all the way to the outside of the track on exit.

Way too far right for setting up T5. You should be about mid track, maybe slightly to the right.

Drift out wider to set up for T6. You should be very close to the outside of the track.

T6 is very important to get right. It's very bumpy the further out you get, and more importantly, it sets you up for the 2nd longest straight on the track. Getting this turn right is very important. If you don't go wider to set up for it, it'll screw you up. You're probably 8' from where you should be at the apex.

T7 was decent. This is one turn you do not want to be on the curbing. about 3' out is perfect. In fact, I'm so used to being further out, for some reason on one of my laps I was over the curbing and didn't lift my knee up like I normally do (because I'm never over the curbing there) and it ripped the velcro on my suit...oops.

Closer to the dirt in T8. Exit looked to be good to set up for T9.

T9 - again, get closer to the apex of the corner. There's no curbing here, just a lot of black sealer.

T10-11 is another important turn. 11 is important because of the short straight coming out of it. 10 is important because if you mess it up, it screws up 11 and has caused many people to high side.

It's very, very important to be close to the curbing in T10, at least by the half way mark, and hold it longer than you think. Then a quick left and back over to the curbing in T11. Going wide like you did in T10 causes T11 to be very sharp. Get on the gas hard and if you're lucky, the back tire just slides on you. If you're not lucky, it hooks back up and sends you over the top.

T12 - closer to the curbing.

T13 - PERFECT!

Then you pit in.

Looking at 7:15, T13 still looks good. T14 is okay as well, but you're going to have to be faster on the bike to get it tipped back over for T15. That's the most important part of the track because it gets you on to the longest straight, so having a good drive out is very important.

As you can see - you have a common problem. My best advice to you is to SLOW DOWN. It's only going to get you in trouble as you get more comfortable / faster if you don't have the proper line.

Take the round robin laps seriously. If you can't put your tires within a few inches of the curbing at half speed, you'll never be able to do it at full speed. Amp up slowly and work on hitting your marks. Increase your speed until you feel like you're missing a couple of your marks and work on those turns specifically.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:17 AM   #16
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listen to him ^ he's an instructor

Other than that, IMO, the lines are the most important thing to get since
1. it is the fastest and smoothest way around the track, once you know where you are supposed to be on the track then you can start playing with body position and actually being fast since you can get away with less lean angle, etc
2. it makes you predictable so if someone wants to pass you, and you are following the best lines, they can pass you without incident. Or, you can pass them without incident if they are the good, consistent rider.

This is a track day tactic. On a race day, there are defensive lines, etc. But, since no one is going to win any prize, hopefully people are willing to prove how good they are by passing people legitimately.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:18 AM   #17
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where he says "over the curbing", it's just your knee!
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:42 AM   #18
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:46 AM   #19
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no problem, i want to make msrh on this weekend. i really like that track for some reaosn. again i like every track a lot haha
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:52 AM   #20
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how do you guys get your energy out there? i start to get tired, i dont want to get tired lol
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