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Old 07-08-2013, 09:55 AM   #141
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i think i saw 985, i was on the same side as you but closer to the track on the end. there was a hp4, 1000rr, zx6r pitting with me and my r6
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:34 AM   #142
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I was on the other side of the guy on the S1000RR on the blue 09 zx6 (985). I had fun, but my buddy Pawel his a rider that was out in the wrong level that obviously didn't know what he was doing :(

Can't say I blame the organization because some people just don't listen, but this kid obviously had no idea what to do if you get black flagged.

I did have a couple of issues. Somehow managed to rip the back of my belly pan off. The last inch or so is gone...And I managed to hit some curbing and it ripped the velcro on my suit. But I did manage a new personal best, so I was pretty happy.
8002 10103468406831784 1686315241 n
1005740 10103472414300784 1242795542 n
-Cody
. That was me on the cbr. Had fun playing with you man. I too had a personal best of 1:51 and then I crashed in turn 3 Cant wait to get the bike back together and go play some more.
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:40 AM   #143
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ahhh...okay. That session was a blast. I have video, I'll just need to edit it and post it up.

I MIGHT have video of your crash, but I doubt it. I was behind Will, but maybe 20-30 yards back. I honestly never even saw it, but it might have shown up on video. If I do, I'll post it up tonight - but I think you guys were probably too far ahead to see anything.

It's trying to keep up with you guys on bigger bikes...lol.
-Cody
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:43 AM   #144
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ahhh...okay. That session was a blast. I have video, I'll just need to edit it and post it up.

I MIGHT have video of your crash, but I doubt it. I was behind Will, but maybe 20-30 yards back. I honestly never even saw it, but it might have shown up on video. If I do, I'll post it up tonight - but I think you guys were probably too far ahead to see anything.

It's trying to keep up with you guys on bigger bikes...lol.
-Cody
You were moving man! That session was exhausting!! I had just passed Will in turn 2 and guess I got too excited haha. Turn 3 comes and boom. Front end gave out. Post the video up whenever you get a chance brotha
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:13 AM   #145
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Didn't catch the wreck. I was further behind than I thought.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:39 AM   #146
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Didn't catch the wreck. I was further behind than I thought.
O well. Post up the video from a few sessions before.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:43 AM   #147
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Will do tonight. I watched it earlier today...its pretty good.
-Cody
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:19 AM   #148
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cody where is your gopro mounted? Mine is on the nose and it shakes so bad I have seizures when I watch it
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:26 AM   #149
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Behind the windscreen. I have one on my tail section and it shakes quite a bit too :(

The only issue behind the windscreen is it takes away some of the clarity...even if its the stock, clear windscreen. Also why the numbers are on the plastics and not my windscreen.
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Old 07-12-2013, 07:36 AM   #150
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i feel the cheap price tag is not worth the lack of safety.
ill have to live with it the rest of my life and hope it doesnt happen to anyone else.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:25 AM   #151
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i feel the cheap price tag is not worth the lack of safety.
ill have to live with it the rest of my life and hope it doesnt happen to anyone else.
There was nothing particular about the price or the way that the event was structured that compromised safety. People are fallible, and no amount of money can buy your way out of that.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:42 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
There was nothing particular about the price or the way that the event was structured that compromised safety. People are fallible, and no amount of money can buy your way out of that.
Oh - I highly beg to differ. Lack of CWer's, lack of experience, and lack of going over the 'rules of the track' DEFINITELY compromised safety.
-Cody
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:43 AM   #153
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I went into more detail on another forum, I'm just going to copy and paste it here:

Extreme seems like a pretty poorly run organization that compromises safety in the spirit of cheap track days. The track marshal let out 3 L2 guys, with stickers twice the size of Ride Smart, into L3. Not once, but twice.

The second time ended with sending a buddy of mine to the hospital with a fractured pelvis, broken arm, and bike in PIECES. Ohlins forks snapped right off the bike.

The CWer's they had looked like they had never seen a track before. I had never seen them. A couple of them looked to be 12-14 years old. Multiple calls over the PA were made just to get them to come back to get them to the corners before the day started and after lunch ended.

Then, they didn't have enough. Remember T9 at TWS (Texas World Speedway) during the last CMRA round there? 22 crashes. Guess what turn had no corner worker in it?

When my friend wrecked, I made it known to James, the owner, and a few different staff that I would take care of his stuff and to please let me know of any updates or issues and I'd be more than willing to help. When he left in the ambulance, word was a broken or dislocated hip. After a couple hours, the word was a broken finger and some bumps/bruises, so I kind of laid off knowing he was okay.

At the end of the day, having never spoken again with any of the staff about the status of my friend, I asked them where he was at. For 30 minutes I tried to find anyone that knew...knocking on RV trailer doors, etc. I finally found James and was told he was taken to CS Med. I had called them and they said they didn't have him. Whatever. I went to CS Med hoping it was just a mix up. It wasn't. They didn't have him and recommended calling St. Joseph's.

I called St. Joseph's and was transferred to the critical care unit. That's when I knew something was up. They asked me to bring his phone since they haven't been able to get a hold of his family. I already had his phone with me and made my way over. Come to find out, he has broken his pelvis in 3 places and broken his arm (both bones). At the time, they didn't know if he'd need surgery - thankfully he will not.

At this point, I was pretty frustrated. I had told the owner and some of the staff to please let me know of any updates or if they had any issues. Come to find out, they DID call his emergency contact, but never actually made contact with anyone. They never found out where he was. They never found out anything, nor did they really accomplish anything.

I've talked to the rider that was hit and of course the rider that hit him (that went to the hospital). Basically, what happened was the rider in front was a L2 rider in the L3 session by mistake. Being repeatedly spooked by close, fast passes, he was going pretty slow and I'm assuming on his way in. Myself and the other rider were coming out of T11 and saw him all the small straight before T12. He was approximately 8' from the outside of the track. Not wanting to come up on the inside of a slower rider, Pawel and myself stayed on the race line to pass him on the outside. About that time, the slower rider turned around, shifting his body weight to the right and I'm assuming putting input on the right hand bar, causing his bike to move right and close the gap that the other rider had already committed to taking. He was probably going around 110, the rider in front around 50-60. He was able to get on the brakes for a half second before the collision, sending him over the bars on impact. I was close enough behind him to get my bike / helmet covered in fork oil, but was luckily able to veer right to avoid contact.

To me, this is the result of a number of things. The track marshal should have been paying better attention. When you have 3 guys who go out together with huge stickers on their bikes in a grid of maybe 15 people, you should notice it and not let them go out. I'm not saying all other organizations are immune to this, but 1 guy in a group of 40 riders is a little different that 3 guys in a group of 15.

But it doesn't stop there. Things get past the TM, it happens. That's why we have CWer's. No one noticed or said anything the first session that this group went out in L3. It wasn't until the next time they went out that one of the riders came to pit in because of getting buzzed on the inside. He went to the TM and about that time, he heard the call come over about the wreck.

No classroom and inexperienced CWer's/TM caused this to happen IMO. If you're a new rider and there's not someone there to reiterate, ride your ride, don't look back, the faster riders will get around you if you're predictable - these things don't get remembered. It's not even about instruction at this point, it's about the rules of the track.

So if safety and an apparent lack of concern for hospitalized riders isn't enough - I'm going to move on to people that are flat out lying.

It has been said that these riders were black flagged and those black flags were ignored. This is coming from the owner of Extreme. Well, that's not true. NONE of the 3 riders saw the black flag. We were close enough to the rider that got hit that I would have seen someone in T10 walking back to their station with a black flag. Being an experienced rider, instructor, CW, and TM - I'm always looking for stuff like that. It didn't happen. Not to mention, this was the SECOND SESSION it happened in.

The owner also said the rumor about the broken finger got started because he was told that by track management. Having worked with the track manager when I track marshaled for Track Tactics, I had his email, so I emailed him. In a politically correct way, the track manager said he never said that and that extreme's owner was lying.

"That information is not accurate. I do not have a status on any injuries, sorry."
"James' memory is incorrect. We do not diagnose, we can only tell him what the likely injury was."

Between the lack of safety, lack of concern for transported riders (how would you feel if your kid was in ICU for 10-12 hours before you found out?), and the blatant lying that seems like an obvious attempt at covering up a poorly run event - I will not be back.

Track Tactics is holding an event there for $100 this month. RideSmart holds events at TWS (Texas World Speedway) for $105 for licensed racers through their CMRA discount. The $10-15 you save with extreme isn't worth the risk you take in terms of your safety. If you want the lighter grids, go with LSTD and pick up a CW credit that typically gets sold for around $110. All these programs have been doing this stuff for years, have people running the event that know what they're doing, have instructors that know how to teach you to get better while being safer, and have good TM's and CWer's that know what they're doing. I'm not saying that none of these organizations don't have bad wrecks, even the CMRA last weekend wasn't immune to it - what I am saying is these organizations all put weight on safety and go through certain measures to ensure things like this dont happen.

After being at this event, I know now I take for granted how smoothly all these other schools run. I know there's complaints here and there about trivial things - but when you're laying in ICU because of the negligence of an organization, it makes all these other issues seem petty.
-Cody
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:05 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exalted512 View Post

I've talked to the rider that was hit and of course the rider that hit him (that went to the hospital). Basically, what happened was the rider in front was a L2 rider in the L3 session by mistake. Being repeatedly spooked by close, fast passes, he was going pretty slow and I'm assuming on his way in. Myself and the other rider were coming out of T11 and saw him all the small straight before T12. He was approximately 8' from the outside of the track. Not wanting to come up on the inside of a slower rider, Pawel and myself stayed on the race line to pass him on the outside. About that time, the slower rider turned around, shifting his body weight to the right and I'm assuming putting input on the right hand bar, causing his bike to move right and close the gap that the other rider had already committed to taking. He was probably going around 110, the rider in front around 50-60. He was able to get on the brakes for a half second before the collision, sending him over the bars on impact. I was close enough behind him to get my bike / helmet covered in fork oil, but was luckily able to veer right to avoid contact.

Cody,

If I am reading this correctly, it sounds like the Level 2 rider was preparing for exiting the track incorrectly (outside of track with no signal instead of inside line and signalling). Is that possibly what happened?

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Old 07-12-2013, 09:19 AM   #155
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I'm not certain what he was doing. I'm assuming since he was going so slow that he was going to exit the track.

But the thing is, he shouldn't have been out there in the first place...and this was the second L3 session they accidentally made it in. The TM didn't notice 3 L2 guys going out together (in a grid of only about 15 or so). The CWer's didn't notice they were going significantly slower than everyone else.

And with the lack of going over the general rules of the track in depth (ride your ride, stay on your line, dont look behind you, if you have issues - put your hand up and stay on the inside) - all these things combined sent a rider to ICU with a broken pelvis and arm.

To say the organization and the price point didn't affect this is FALSE. I'm not saying accidents don't happen - I'm saying that this one should have been prevented easily if there was experienced workers. They were out for 2 different sessions! It's not like this happened on the 2nd lap.

That's what you get when you pay your CWer's $50/day. That's less than minimum wage.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:27 AM   #156
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That's what you get when you pay your CWer's $50/day. That's less than minimum wage.
-Cody
not that I disagree with your sentiments, but just out of curiousity what do you think CMRA pays their cornerworkers (the ones not working off prov-nov requirements)?
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:27 AM   #157
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So clearly this wasn't Lv2 guys trying to progress up to Lv3 since they were going so slow?
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:39 AM   #158
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not that I disagree with your sentiments, but just out of curiousity what do you think CMRA pays their cornerworkers (the ones not working off prov-nov requirements)?
$60 and free lunch. 2 at each cw station
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:41 AM   #159
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$60 and free lunch. 2 at each cw station
The rest of us work for free...
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:49 AM   #160
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not that I disagree with your sentiments, but just out of curiousity what do you think CMRA pays their cornerworkers (the ones not working off prov-nov requirements)?
Valid point. CMRA pays $60/day, but they also throw in free lunch...not that their free lunch adds much to anything, but it's free and does fill you up. But it also gets you a free 3-day pass into the track. Depending on the track, that can be an extra $20, IIRC the TWS (Texas World Speedway) pricing correctly.

I guess the big difference here is, the CMRA has extremely experienced marshals at the grid, some extremely experienced corner workers, out riders, workers at every single turn out the track - most corners have at least 2, sometimes 3 in one corner. The CWer's at CMRA events, if not riders themselves, are generally enthusiasts and know what's going on. If they are new, they are paired in a corner with an experienced worker.

I, and I'm speaking for myself here - but I imagine a lot of people feel the same, think a free 3-day pass to the track, free lunch, and $60 to sit with a person or two in a corner and watching actual races is a lot better deal than $50 to watch 10-15 / level at a track day by yourself.

Have you corner worked? Do you know how boring L1 is to watch? (attempt at being funny here, not calling you out or anything). I think I'd much rather watch Ty Howard and Danny Kelsey fight it out than a few people running 2:40s around TWS (Texas World Speedway)...haha

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So clearly this wasn't Lv2 guys trying to progress up to Lv3 since they were going so slow?
No. The guys that went out were being spooked by the L3 riders. To my knowledge (and I talked to two of them), they had no intentions of being in L3 and actually dropped down to L1 after the accident.

-Cody
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