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Old 06-28-2013, 10:13 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT USMC 0311 View Post
Are the track day organizations having a hard time filling spots?

I am sure I am not alone in saying I want Ride Smart, LSTDs, FL etc etc to succeed, not fail.
Anytime a new org comes around EVERYONE takes a hit.

Just a few years back we had LMS, LSTD and Ride Smart Things were just fine back then(for the most part ). Granted MH and other forums have drawn more people to the track. TTD came along and did so-so for a few years then went bankrupt. While they were doing that they obviously took from Ride Smart/LSTD and LMS.

Currently we have like 7 TD orgs

LSTD
Ride Smart
FL
3T
Whoopies
Elite
and now Xtreme
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:20 AM   #22
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While I understand that there are *currently* only so many trackday riders, I cannot see an instance where competition is genuinely hurting the consumer.

6/22 MSRH was full in 1 & 2 and Limited in 3.

There are thousands upon thousands of riders in TX and the surrounding areas, lets grow the consumer base.

I'm signed up for the 6th... and am f'n stoked about it
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:28 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetcycles View Post
Kill the market? A new trackday org is going to make people quit riding trackdays? Competition within the market is good for the consumer...
As in price wise, we went from $175 down to $99 for a trackday??

Com'on, that's killing the market, these guys are leaving money on the table, giving things away.

If Ford would sell the Mustang Roush cars at $35000 and all of the comparable cars were still being sold at $45000+, everyone would be buying the mustand, thus, killing the sports car market.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:29 AM   #24
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The other orgs aren't making a KILLING off the riders. Some just pay the bills to keep in business.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:32 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solracer View Post
Anytime a new org comes around EVERYONE takes a hit.

Just a few years back we had LMS, LSTD and Ride Smart Things were just fine back then(for the most part ). Granted MH and other forums have drawn more people to the track. TTD came along and did so-so for a few years then went bankrupt. While they were doing that they obviously took from Ride Smart/LSTD and LMS.

Currently we have like 7 TD orgs

LSTD
Ride Smart
FL
3T
Whoopies
Elite
and now Xtreme
Exactly, all of this within one state, and how many tracks do we have access to??

Texas doesn't have the rider base to support the market enough to keep everyone(TD org's) on an even playing field, and then there is a certain level of "greed" too.

More street riders really should start riding on the track, it will definitely bring the death toll and crash toll down considerably once these stupid street riders figure out just how much safer and how much more fun a t/d really is/can be (not to mention insurance rates might be lowered for bikers.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:34 AM   #26
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I laugh at the comments made circa 2008 when Ride Smart, LSTD and Longhorn owned the local market. People got pissy cuz Ride Smart filled the grids super tight and dropped prices to $135. There were enough red flags in the couple of Ride Smart events that I attended that I eventually quit attending and spent my money elsewhere (Fastline, LSTD, etc.) even though it was higher priced. Everyone bitched about the lack of rain policies (at least I did, lol) and there was none b/c "there was not a good profit margin in the industry". It is evident now that there is indeed a great deal of profit to be had in the business if people are hosting trackdays for $100-$130 and giving WEATHER/RAIN OUT policies. Competition, it 's needed to keep people honest.

The consumer will decide if the $40 savings is worth circling the track with wannabe racers causing red flags every session or if they want to pay more and ride with what tends to be more mature riders not pushing their limits as much, resulting in less crashes and red flags.

At the end of the day, there are plenty of riders in this demographic of all ages with different budgets. Let them decide who to ride with.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:39 AM   #27
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All I see is opportunity for riders to ride track cheaper.

I don't see a thing wrong with that.

Jesus, you people just get riled up about everything.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:39 AM   #28
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All I see is opportunity for riders to ride track cheaper.

I don't see a thing wrong with that.

Jesus, you people just get riled up about everything.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:48 AM   #29
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IMO, the saying that the more trackday organizations there are, the better for the consumer is not quite true...in that it is TO A POINT.
Price seems to be a sticking point for a lot of folks, and rightfully so... to a point.
If you are a stone newbie, then the cheaper groups sound good, but they are not really all that good for you....for some there will be little safety in consideration... it is just an open trackday and for a newbie that could be a real problem... some groups have a little better set up for rules and safety on paper, then they go and overload the grids...
each of the groups has their own appeal, and short comings...these things take some time to figure out and can get you in hot water if you discuss the draw backs of each organization on some of the forums...no one really likes you bad mouthing their sponsors...
which group you as an individual come to prefer will vary and will depend on your ability and personality...some of the most well known groups are groups that i personally would not recommend to someone doing their very first trackday and yet those very groups are touted for their cheap first trackday and the freebies they offer first time riders....after you get used to trackdays and track riding those groups would serve you just fine IMO, but not the first one.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:57 AM   #30
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i like having more track days available... im down to do more track days a month.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:03 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umayr View Post
i like having more track days available... im down to do more track days a month.
In reality... "more" track days wont really be available... there are only so many track dates to go around. Most are taken by cars, not bikes.


The reality is each ORG will have LESS dates.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:15 AM   #32
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Yeah I was one of the guys offended. Basically he used the tragedy at the RA Supersport race that left several racers seriously hurt as a "joke" to insinuate that his staff was more capable of starting a race than the AMA.

Don't know the guy...maybe he is a good guy, but that was about as sorry as an action/statement/promotion as you can make.
There have been bigger tragedies used for worst things, relax.
Quote:
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Yeah, they aren't a school. I know they are straight track days. According to their insurance and stuff they technically aren't allowed to give out advice and stuff, but I did see on one of their control rider's Facebook that said "so proud of the improvements my students made."
, talk about just picking at things lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by obed View Post
IMO, the saying that the more trackday organizations there are, the better for the consumer is not quite true...in that it is TO A POINT.
Price seems to be a sticking point for a lot of folks, and rightfully so... to a point.
If you are a stone newbie, then the cheaper groups sound good, but they are not really all that good for you....for some there will be little safety in consideration... it is just an open trackday and for a newbie that could be a real problem... some groups have a little better set up for rules and safety on paper, then they go and overload the grids...
each of the groups has their own appeal, and short comings...these things take some time to figure out and can get you in hot water if you discuss the draw backs of each organization on some of the forums...no one really likes you bad mouthing their sponsors...
which group you as an individual come to prefer will vary and will depend on your ability and personality...some of the most well known groups are groups that i personally would not recommend to someone doing their very first trackday and yet those very groups are touted for their cheap first trackday and the freebies they offer first time riders....after you get used to trackdays and track riding those groups would serve you just fine IMO, but not the first one.
Why don't you just come put and say who you're talking about?

We ALL know who you are talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solracer View Post
In reality... "more" track days wont really be available... there are only so many track dates to go around. Most are taken by cars, not bikes.


The reality is each ORG will have LESS dates.
But more variety for the rider. Variety is the spice of life.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:15 AM   #33
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Im giving it a go as well. Why not. As long as theres not a bunch of misplaced people in level 3 I wont mind. I know Ride Smart has put 40 or more on the grid. My only concern is a noobie thinking hes hot on the street signing up for 2 or even 3. Not that it cant happen in other organizations. Im sure any organization with more "instruction" would be better for a noob though.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:41 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solracer View Post
In reality... "more" track days wont really be available... there are only so many track dates to go around. Most are taken by cars, not bikes.


The reality is each ORG will have LESS dates.
EH idk i feel there are trackdays now here in houston almost every weekend (TWS (Texas World Speedway)/msrh) Ride Smart does a good amount at msrc, which is far for me. fl idk whats going on with them but doesnt even have a track day until September and they only do msrh. Elite td's idk what that is but they dont have posted events, kinda look like one on one instruction. Whoops track days are totally different, they only allow a very small amount of riders, last time i did that it was only 8 riders all day, btw 30 min session with 30 mins cars next. LSTD never comes down to msrh they only do ecr and TWS (Texas World Speedway). You already know where i work, its really hard for me to have weekends off so having the variety is helping me this month (july) to get 4-5 track days in, before i could do like 2-3 MAYBE a month. Oh and 3T they are more national, they only swing by texas once in a while.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:46 AM   #35
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Quote:
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In reality... "more" track days wont really be available... there are only so many track dates to go around. Most are taken by cars, not bikes.


The reality is each ORG will have LESS dates.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:53 AM   #36
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Quote:
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really the only organizers we have right now are like Ride Smart, Extreme, LSTD, Track tactics is finally coming out here doing track days, FL has nothing going on right now, neither does ELITE, and whoops i would say is more of a "exclusive" track day.

As for the grid complaints idk what you guys are talking about, ive had 0 issues with too many people on the track. All the crashes i see are because of rider error, if you have too many people in front of you then simply go around them because apparently you are faster right

and jimmy The last time you did Ride Smart, you went into l2 and you were waving people pass you, if you held your pace you wouldnt have worried about too many people being on there. but i mean it was your first time ever on that track, i dont think you would have any issues if you knew the track more that day
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:12 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umayr View Post
EH idk i feel there are trackdays now here in houston almost every weekend (TWS (Texas World Speedway)/msrh) Ride Smart does a good amount at msrc, which is far for me. fl idk whats going on with them but doesnt even have a track day until September and they only do msrh. Elite td's idk what that is but they dont have posted events, kinda look like one on one instruction. Whoops track days are totally different, they only allow a very small amount of riders, last time i did that it was only 8 riders all day, btw 30 min session with 30 mins cars next. LSTD never comes down to msrh they only do ecr and TWS (Texas World Speedway). You already know where i work, its really hard for me to have weekends off so having the variety is helping me this month (july) to get 4-5 track days in, before i could do like 2-3 MAYBE a month. Oh and 3T they are more national, they only swing by texas once in a while.
yup. while there is overlap, i dont think it's nearly enough to "kill" the business.

As long as there is demand- there will be business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racerxxx View Post
Im giving it a go as well. Why not. As long as theres not a bunch of misplaced people in level 3 I wont mind. I know Ride Smart has put 40 or more on the grid. My only concern is a noobie thinking hes hot on the street signing up for 2 or even 3. Not that it cant happen in other organizations. Im sure any organization with more "instruction" would be better for a noob though.
this will not happen. If it does, a control rider will bump them down to 1 during the first session. It's VERY obvious when an inexperienced rider is in 2 or 3.

Level 1 however, that might be a different story. Could be total noobs mixed with level 2 riders who just dont want to move up, etc. I'll be in 3 and have no worries
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:14 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solracer View Post
I think several CONSUMERS of "Texas Trackdays" would say otherwise right about now.
Exactly. Being cheaper just means you're not making enough to cover your .

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbonJames View Post
As in price wise, we went from $175 down to $99 for a trackday??

Com'on, that's killing the market, these guys are leaving money on the table, giving things away.

If Ford would sell the Mustang Roush cars at $35000 and all of the comparable cars were still being sold at $45000+, everyone would be buying the mustand, thus, killing the sports car market.
You can't have one gas station selling gas at $.99/gal when all the others are selling at $4/gal. Nobody would ever pay the $4/gal, and the one selling it lower will go out of business, because they're paying more than the $1/gal for the gas they are selling. It's not always good business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solracer View Post
The other orgs aren't making a KILLING off the riders. Some just pay the bills to keep in business.
This. I remember TTD very well. You can't pay your bills when your outgo is more than your income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewRider View Post
All I see is opportunity for riders to ride track cheaper.

I don't see a thing wrong with that.

Jesus, you people just get riled up about everything.
The problem isn't with the quantity of organizations; it's with the quality of the organization.

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Old 06-28-2013, 12:23 PM   #39
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Exactly. Being cheaper just means you're not making enough to cover your .



You can't have one gas station selling gas at $.99/gal when all the others are selling at $4/gal. Nobody would ever pay the $4/gal, and the one selling it lower will go out of business, because they're paying more than the $1/gal for the gas they are selling. It's not always good business.



This. I remember TTD very well. You can't pay your bills when your outgo is more than your income.



The problem isn't with the quantity of organizations; it's with the quality of the organization.

How can you speak to the quality if you yourself have not used them?

Different strokes. There are a lot of riders that have been doing trackdays for a while and just don't want to spend time in a classroom that some orgs are requiring them to do.

What you see as good others might not and vice versa. The good thing is that there is an option for everyone
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:25 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solracer View Post
The other orgs aren't making a KILLING off the riders. Some just pay the bills to keep in business.
TWS (Texas World Speedway) rental rates for example:
2013 Peak Season Rates
Mon-Thu $4500/day
Fri-Sun $8400/day

2013 Off Season Rates
Mon-Fri $3500/day
Fri-Sun $5000/day

lets do a little basic math
120riders @ 140.00 ea. = 16,800.00gross profit.

MSRH rental rates:

Road course track rental rates PER DAY:

Weekday (M Th), Full Day $5,700
Weekend (F Su), Full Day $6,700

I fail to see your logic, someone is making money.
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