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Old 06-03-2013, 04:35 PM   #61
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Old 06-03-2013, 04:50 PM   #62
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Man that shounded like a helluva day.

Can anybody give me an idea of what times you guys were running out there? Would love to see how they compared with the other sports..

ie: GP is around 2:04
F1: around 1:39's...

Ride Smart Lv3 / Lv 2?
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:03 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiayeman View Post

Oh, and I do not think that Brandt would intentionally anyone up. What is considered a very conservative safe pass in CMRA could be interpreted a lot differently in a Ride Smart level 2 track day.
Thank you sir. I've defended slower people, still learning, for many years. I've always asked people to give the students space. I definitely try to be considerate and am certainly not a hole. When I went out for the first session I asked what the passing rules were.. I was told no inside passing in the corners. I passed a bunch of people, ON THE OUTSIDE, through the esses. When I came in, I was told no passing in T3-T9. I never did it again.

I stood one guy up because the very late turn ins kind of messed me up. I thought I had plenty of room but then he turned in. It was my fault. I waved an apology.

Other than that, every pass I made was on the brakes, before the rider turned in, on the inside. Where else can you pass on a motard on a 3.4 miles fast track? (except for the outside in the esses apparently.)

As far as the red flag incident goes, dudes were moving at, literally, 5-10mph getting off the track. I was going probably 30mph. I passed, I'd guess 6 people between T12 and pit in.

I rode a total of 3 sessions on Sunday. So I wasn't being a hole all day... or even a hole at all. I left out of frustration.

It's all about perception. The only inappropriate pass I can own was the one I made on the inside at T20. Everything else, while they may have been against the rules that I missed, were not unsafe.

I did not go to class because I was registered for level 3. On Sunday morning, after the riders meeting, I noticed Rune Medhus (fast expert on an 1198r superbike) was in level 2. I considerately gave him my level 3 and figured I'd be OK in level 2 on a dirt bike.

I dont have an issue with Ride Smart, or the rules. I think CotA is uptight and I think one particular control rider was out of line addressing my red flag incident. But I've been told there are 2 sides to the story so mine doesn't count.

I haven't been in level 2 in 5 years but I was astonished at the amount of reporting that was happening. It was insane.
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:04 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Kid View Post
Man that shounded like a helluva day.

Can anybody give me an idea of what times you guys were running out there? Would love to see how they compared with the other sports..

ie: GP is around 2:04
F1: around 1:39's...

Ride Smart Lv3 / Lv 2?
I saw Bill Guthrie turn a 2:25 on a misgeared BMW with shagged tires. I dont think anyone went faster than a 2:23 maybe?

Except for GPRACER33... I'm sure he ran a 2:06 or some bullshit he told some noobs.
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:05 PM   #65
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Quote:
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I didn't know you couldn't pass in T3-T9. I didn't know that you couldn't pass on a red flag. I didn't know I could cause so many problems on a 90 mph bike. I'm just giving my feedback.
Printed track rule handouts and schedule, at least the basics, should be a must at trackdays. All of us trackday providers need to work on this. COTA was proof that when someone already knows it all, skips required class, there might be problems. Funny thing is...I'm not talking about Brandt here

In the past, I've had a student kicked out of MSR-H by MSR-H management for wheelies on a minibike over by the skidpad (you know, where they have stunt shows occasionally). Also had parade laps taken away when an instructor wheelied two up on a parade lap. Who knew?
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:25 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Kid View Post
Man that shounded like a helluva day.

Can anybody give me an idea of what times you guys were running out there? Would love to see how they compared with the other sports..

ie: GP is around 2:04
F1: around 1:39's...

Ride Smart Lv3 / Lv 2?
I rode in Lv 2 and my best laps were around 3:01. If I had to guess I'd say it was about middle of the pack but with a quite big spread in ability/speed within the group. Renewed respect for the GP guys...
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:26 PM   #67
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How many bike were there in each group or total if anyone knows? No matter how big the track will be it will always bunch up, just take a trip down the pit. Looked like all went smoothly.
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:27 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdill35 View Post
Man.. relax. I gave my level 3 to Rune and rode in level 2. I didn't know you couldn't pass in T3-T9. I didnt know that you couldn't pass on a red flag. I didn't know I could cause so many problems on a 90 mph bike. I'm just giving my feedback.

I'm actually a pretty humble guy.
I don't know you guys so I have no history here or ax to grind. But these are things you should have known if you attended the mandatory classes and I would think common sense says passing on a red flag is likely not a good idea.

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Old 06-03-2013, 05:29 PM   #69
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Wth all the restrictions on passes, and varied skill level, level 2 which i rode, i'll say was around 3 min. Lap time average.

Here is the video of Rykoson showing me the line for the first lap before sending his student free. Thank you Ryko San!!

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Old 06-03-2013, 05:32 PM   #70
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Oops!!!
Me so sory. Posted the wrong video.
Here is the one from COTA.

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Old 06-03-2013, 05:34 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT USMC 0311 View Post
I don't know you guys so I have no history here or ax to grind. But these are things you should have known if you attended the mandatory classes and I would think common sense says passing on a red flag is likely not a good idea.
I always pass on a red flag if the guy in front of me is going slower than my 1/2 speed. The idea is to swiftly, but safely, get off the track so medical can roll. I understand the rules were different here and admittedly was wrong. There was certainly no "danger" in what I did. I just broke the Ride Smart rule. Plain and simple.

In the future, I'd advise those who don't know a whole lot, to get off the track reasonably quick when the red flag comes out. Not slow to a snails pace.

And I'd advise myself to never, ever, ride in level 2 again no matter how slow my motorcycle is. It's not safe.
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:39 PM   #72
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Quote:
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And I'd advise myself to never, ever, ride in level 2 again no matter how slow my motorcycle is. It's not safe.
I think it's just that this whole thing was so delicate, people were on pins and needles. You're usually the king of the track day but in this case, it was the rules that needed to rule to make sure we....riders, not necessarily any certain riding school...could come back again. So ya, Tony jumped on your . I wish you hadn't let it get to you, another session and you would have been fine, over it.
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:43 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyon View Post
Man that is funny, Rofl!! You've been an instructor and don't know the passing rules? Did you listen to the rules? Attend riders meting? Go to class? You were acting like an hat in Level 2 passing under red flags, passing in the S's and all out being a hole. Saw this with my own eyes. I don't care who you are or how fast you are. You were completely inconsiderate of your fellow riders. You were creating an unsafe environment and you were told over and over about what you were doing wrong. Now you're going to cry about breaking the rules? You were the one being an uptight inconsiderate creating unsafe situations w/ much less skilled riders than you on the track. Let me ask you, how many people had to stand their bike up because of you? I bet you have no idea. Take it to level 3 next time or rent the track yourself. Ridiculous! I can't stand a big head!
Snap

And on Brandt's responses to people.
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:30 PM   #74
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(Bluepine) Mark's laps of around 2:50 - 3:00 are pretty representative of what I saw in level 2. Ability to run maybe 2:40's (just a guess of what could be done on a 600 at 9/10ths pace) while respecting those in the 3:20 range.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:55 PM   #75
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Poor Brandt getting told off from all directions today. :(
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:07 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
(Bluepine) Mark's laps of around 2:50 - 3:00 are pretty representative of what I saw in level 2. Ability to run maybe 2:40's (just a guess of what could be done on a 600 at 9/10ths pace) while respecting those in the 3:20 range.
I didn't run a timer but just looking at video time, I ran right down to a 3 flat in L2B, but I don't think I ever got a clean lap where I didn't lose considerable time running maintenance throttle waiting for a passing zone.

BTW, I'm looking through my videos and I got some great footage of somebody on a bike with black bodywork and a blue tank and wearing white Dainese leathers. I hounded you for a couple of laps and I'm sure you could hear the twin behind you. I'll get that trimmed and uploaded asap. Overall your lines looked good and body position was pretty decent too. You'll have some good lap times when you get your corner speed up over time.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:13 PM   #77
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To reply on some of the general posts.

the drama, can't stand that . I'm here to have fun, make friends, and go fast (or at least try). I'm not the type of guy that goes out and just talks or makes up . And if I were, of all people to make up about? Ya, that's a smart move. I try to make friends and be helpful in anyway I can. But I'll say what I feel if that's how it is. I'm not going to change my views just because of who someone is. Brandt has always been cool with me and came off as a down to earth guy who was passionate about going fast. He was always blunt with his wisdom, but, wisdom it was and I could accept that. He was helpful from time to time when I got started track riding in the early HPC days. I know I sold him stuff for way cheap just being a nice guy and building good karma in the community. It's nothing personal other than I was riding with spooked lvl2 riders Just saying what I saw, heard, and my opinion of it all. It's all about perspective and mine changed that day. Slower riders with strict passing rules sucks. I get it. I think the uniqueness of the situation fostered the situation, however, IMO doesn't excuse. It is what it is.

I feel to make the implication that you had a bad time and wouldn't go back because they wouldn't let you break the rules is just laughable IMO. Ok. Yes, it wasn't "all day", it was a handful of sessions. Yes, I'm childish and call people childish names when I'm riled up. It's what I would say to a group of buddies and I feel like motohouston is a group of buddies. Your personality didn't strike me as the type to be offended by such words or really care. I do find it interesting how you're now affiliated with a competing track day company. You have clout. Could it be seeds of dissent in the hopes of sprouting or converting new customers? I certainly don't know, it was just such an odd implied post. I do like conspiracy theories though. Weird that you felt comfortable enough that the attitude of I do what I want would be accepted by the community to just post it right up. And maybe it is accepted, not by me. Sure, I'll admit I probably have a chip on my shoulder from a few years back about something. However, I'd still feel the same if it were anyone else.

That's what I have to say. I'll listen to what you have to say and I'm closing it on that and ending the thread hi-jack.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:36 PM   #78
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I'm buying Cyon a beer next track day.

It's all good dude.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:48 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyon View Post
To reply on some of the general posts.

the drama, can't stand that . I'm here to have fun, make friends, and go fast (or at least try). I'm not the type of guy that goes out and just talks or makes up . And if I were, of all people to make up about? Ya, that's a smart move. I try to make friends and be helpful in anyway I can. But I'll say what I feel if that's how it is. I'm not going to change my views just because of who someone is. Brandt has always been cool with me and came off as a down to earth guy who was passionate about going fast. He was always blunt with his wisdom, but, wisdom it was and I could accept that. He was helpful from time to time when I got started track riding in the early HPC days. I know I sold him stuff for way cheap just being a nice guy and building good karma in the community. It's nothing personal other than I was riding with spooked lvl2 riders Just saying what I saw, heard, and my opinion of it all. It's all about perspective and mine changed that day. Slower riders with strict passing rules sucks. I get it. I think the uniqueness of the situation fostered the situation, however, IMO doesn't excuse. It is what it is.

I feel to make the implication that you had a bad time and wouldn't go back because they wouldn't let you break the rules is just laughable IMO. Ok. Yes, it wasn't "all day", it was a handful of sessions. Yes, I'm childish and call people childish names when I'm riled up. It's what I would say to a group of buddies and I feel like motohouston is a group of buddies. Your personality didn't strike me as the type to be offended by such words or really care. I do find it interesting how you're now affiliated with a competing track day company. You have clout. Could it be seeds of dissent in the hopes of sprouting or converting new customers? I certainly don't know, it was just such an odd implied post. I do like conspiracy theories though. Weird that you felt comfortable enough that the attitude of I do what I want would be accepted by the community to just post it right up. And maybe it is accepted, not by me. Sure, I'll admit I probably have a chip on my shoulder from a few years back about something. However, I'd still feel the same if it were anyone else.

That's what I have to say. I'll listen to what you have to say and I'm closing it on that and ending the thread hi-jack.
I dont know what chip you have on your shoulder regarding me. I'd honestly be interested to know. You can PM me if you want, I'd like to make it right because I dont remember anything. I do remember the GPX you sold me.. still use it to this day.

I'll say this and I'm done too because this has all gotten too ridiculous for me. I didn't say I wouldn't go back because they wouldn't let me break the rules. I didn't even knock Ride Smart, only the over aggressive control rider. What I said was, and I stand by it, that until CotA RELAXES and isn't so uptight about the place then I dont think I'd pay $460 to ride there again. As a paying customer there are certain things that I like and some freedom is one of those things. It's my opinion and it's my money.

When I left Ride Smart I made it very clear with everyone, and Dave Wonders, that there were no hard feelings. Before I took the job with 3T I made sure that they didn't expect me to myself out on the forums and face book promoting them. Just the way I dont take people and their promotion of orgs serious (because I know they're usually receiving some sort of payment for it) I knew people wouldn't take me serious If I whored up a bunch of 3T threads. So I dont really do it. Furthermore, 3T isn't really in competition with Ride Smart. It's a different kind of deal at a different price point. People that ride with an org based on price alone probably wont ride with 3T and much of Ride Smart customer base is price driven. There's no conspiracy. Although if you allow it, some might convince you otherwise.

So with that, I'm done.

Unless GPRACER comes in here telling lies then I'll swing back by.

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Old 06-03-2013, 09:10 PM   #80
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Ryan, Nice control room insight, lol. I like your vids, always. When are you going full time into video production?
haha....when I get them dallazzz..loled at your post too.....I liked my 8 salad! thanks Mark! I will have a write up soon too! What a dream we just had!
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