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Old 05-27-2013, 10:24 AM   #1
nilnwahs
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Let's talk about ABS

I am not sure this topic has been discussed before, but here it goes.

I rode MSRH yesterday CW. I went a little hot at the pit straight and of course I grabbed a handful of brake, the front wheel locked up, ABS kicked in, and I am still going forward. Luckily I scrubbed enough speed to make the turn into the gut check. I think the ABS did not help in this scenario, I really thought I wan't going to stop fast enough.

On the same scenario, I also went too hot at the carousel. While the bike was leaning over, I also grabbed the brake, ABS also kicked in, I knew my bacon was probably saved by the ABS from a front end lowside.

Now, other than being a better rider, what do you think about the ABS. Good for the track, bad for the track? Any input is welcome.

Ps, I rode in novice.
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:10 AM   #2
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Sounds like Honda's ABS works much better than yours
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:27 AM   #3
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Me thinks you need to learn a little more braking control. Have ABS on other bikes including Triumphs, start to plan your corners. Just try to think if that ABS hadn't kicked in were you would have ended up-it did what it was supposed to do.
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:38 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilnwahs View Post
Now, other than being a better rider, what do you think about the ABS. Good for the track, bad for the track? Any input is welcome.
I think it depends on the ABS. I ride a VFR800abs on the streets, and that ABS and its linked brake systems (practically the same as on the ST1300 and Gold Wing as well) is definitely made for the street. And it works great. But take the ABS system that they now have on the CBR's and it's optimized to be used in a track environment. The VFR's system is mainly designed for straight up and down braking and not in a corner. Of course its design and technology is several years older and therefore less sophisticated then the CBR system. I'm not sure where yours ranks in there.

Also, and check your MOM for this, but the Honda's plainly say that ABS can result in LONGER braking distances in dry conditions. But generally that's with a pro level rider and the ABS can still stop faster in any conditions than a regular rider.

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Sounds like Honda's ABS works much better than yours
That's the best way to sum it up.
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Old 05-27-2013, 03:03 PM   #5
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Hey Shawn, I'm they guy with the maroon bike you pitted next to yesterday. I've never ridden an ABS bike, but IMHO you probably just need to slow down much earlier. I remember in novice I never went fast on the straights (on a 250 though) and pretty much just rolled into the corners with minimal braking. Slow in fast out seems much easier for someone like me with limited skill.
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Old 05-27-2013, 03:44 PM   #6
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[
Quote:
QUOTE=zhukov;3578635]Hey Shawn, I'm they guy with the maroon bike you pitted next to yesterday. I've never ridden an ABS bike, but IMHO you probably just need to slow down much earlier. I remember in novice I never went fast on the straights (on a 250 though) and pretty much just rolled into the corners with minimal braking. Slow in fast out seems much easier for someone like me with limited skill.
[/QUOTE]

This pretty much sums it up
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Old 05-27-2013, 05:20 PM   #7
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I turn ABS off on my bike. I've actually bypassed the abs pump recently as well since its a race bike only. When youre pushing the pace abs will make the front feel like it has chatter... itll pulsate at the lever. Turn abs off on the track. Or slow down and brake easier... But that's no fun.

I don't know any fast guys that use abs on the track.
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Old 05-27-2013, 05:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilnwahs View Post
I am not sure this topic has been discussed before, but here it goes.

I rode MSRH yesterday CW. I went a little hot at the pit straight and of course I grabbed a handful of brake, the front wheel locked up, ABS kicked in, and I am still going forward. Luckily I scrubbed enough speed to make the turn into the gut check. I think the ABS did not help in this scenario, I really thought I wan't going to stop fast enough.

On the same scenario, I also went too hot at the carousel. While the bike was leaning over, I also grabbed the brake, ABS also kicked in, I knew my bacon was probably saved by the ABS from a front end lowside.

Now, other than being a better rider, what do you think about the ABS. Good for the track, bad for the track? Any input is welcome.

Ps, I rode in novice.
all i was working on yesterday was not using the brakes.... and its pretty easy to do! if your cooking into the "gut check from the pit straight" then there is something wrong and your already off the track :P

but seriously, next time you go to the track, try to use the brakes as little as possible! it really helps you smooth out your riding...

remember, everyone can go fast on the straights.... EVERYONE.

dont be that guy that parks it in the turns, I hate that guy.


as for abs? i wouldnt know, i dont have abs traction control, a steering damper or a slipper clutch? why? because im a man :P



.....a very poor man.
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slovy View Post
all i was working on yesterday was not using the brakes.... and its pretty easy to do! if your cooking into the "gut check from the pit straight" then there is something wrong and your already off the track :P

but seriously, next time you go to the track, try to use the brakes as little as possible! it really helps you smooth out your riding...

remember, everyone can go fast on the straights.... EVERYONE.

dont be that guy that parks it in the turns, I hate that guy.


as for abs? i wouldnt know, i dont have abs traction control, a steering damper or a slipper clutch? why? because im a man :P



.....a very poor man.
I think I am going to have to disagree with you on the use of brakes when "racing".

From my personal experience, throttle and brake are very relative. Meaning you use both to get yourself to a manageable speed.

You cannot go fast without knowing how to brake, be it hard, moderate or soft. To give you a visual......

MotoGP DSC 0163

Knowing the bike helps........A LOT, AND practice, practice practice.

Brake technology has come a looooooong way, there is a reason for that.

How do you think the motard guys back it in?
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:33 PM   #10
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ABS is not for the track, and in my opinion has no place on naked bikes. Most of these naked bikes they make now are missing the point.

But anyway, your bike should have more than enough braking power at novice speeds where you shouldn't be having a problem with the abs kicking in. Like others have said, be smooth on the brakes, nothing abrupt
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
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ABS is not for the track, and in my opinion has no place on naked bikes. Most of these naked bikes they make now are missing the point.

But anyway, your bike should have more than enough braking power at novice speeds where you shouldn't be having a problem with the abs kicking in. Like others have said, be smooth on the brakes, nothing abrupt
ABS is as much of a learning tool as being on a track.

Both will help you become a better rider. Once you know how to brake, ditch ABS.....JMHO.

I have built in ABS in my right hand and right foot.....about as dependable as a mechanical device too
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truckin_Thumper View Post
I think I am going to have to disagree with you on the use of brakes when "racing".

From my personal experience, throttle and brake are very relative. Meaning you use both to get yourself to a manageable speed.

You cannot go fast without knowing how to brake, be it hard, moderate or soft. To give you a visual......

MotoGP DSC 0163

Knowing the bike helps........A LOT, AND practice, practice practice.

Brake technology has come a looooooong way, there is a reason for that.

How do you think the motard guys back it in?
lol im sorry thumper, I was meaning I myself was trying to use the least amount of braking possible its what ive been told to due during my training sessions with kris, i wasn't trying to imply that you infact should never use brakes that the track.

simply just learning to be smooth before i get fast ya know?
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:18 PM   #13
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+1 for doing "no brake" drills.

I dropped quite a few seconds of my
Lap times after practicing using as little brake as possible (when I moved from 1 to 2). If you are still riding lvl 1 or slow lvl 2 pace- learning your limits without braking is a great tool. Obviously they are necessary later on, but are only hindering you now. Don't focus on straight speed- work on entry/lines and smoothness. I'll be taking
My speedie to the next TD to do some "relaxed" session between runs
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Old 05-28-2013, 12:18 AM   #14
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yeah honestly you could do 90-100 in the straights and for you that more than enough.
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Old 05-28-2013, 08:02 AM   #15
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Thanks for all the input. Apparently, I just need to be a better rider. I will turn off the ABS next time and play with it.
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Old 05-28-2013, 08:36 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilnwahs View Post
Thanks for all the input. Apparently, I just need to be a better rider. I will turn off the ABS next time and play with it.
Just turn it off.

You can be as smooth as butter but if you're trail braking and carrying lean angle with brake pressure (like you should be) the ABS is going to activate. It has nothing to do with being a better rider. It has nothing to do with Honda ABS, vs BMW, vs Trimuph etc. As a matter of fact, better riders trail brake. You make the bike turn better by setting the geoetry of the bike with your front brake. Apply the brakes, the front dives and the bike is easier to turn. Additionally, this provides a larger contact patch with the front tire giving you more traction. Slowly give back brake pressure as you add lean angle so that you are off the brakes when you are at maximum lean.This is how you ride a motorcycle on the track. It's fundamental but for whatever reason it doesn't get emphasized much. We're not talking about "The Pace" here and riding back roads without braking.. we're talking about the race track. If you want to go into a corner and turn in off the brakes with less contact patch then that's on you. But don't come on the forums crying about how your front "washed out" and there must've been something on the track and brand of tires suck.

GL out there!

Last edited by cdill35; 05-28-2013 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:04 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilnwahs View Post
Thanks for all the input. Apparently, I just need to be a better rider. I will turn off the ABS next time and play with it.
no, leave it on. It obviously saved yer bacon.
When you no longer need the ABS due to skill improvement, then turn it off.

Track days are training, never skimp on training. Use all the tools you have.
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:12 AM   #18
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I have never had ABS... but when i get too old to ride a bike, I will get a trike and my trike must have ABS.
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Old 05-28-2013, 07:57 PM   #19
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Out of the two people giving on track ABS advice ^, I think I know who I would listen to.
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