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Old 05-27-2013, 06:29 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
If you read through the thread there's lots of guys that think they can produce a gun at the slightest sign of conflict as a deterrent.
That's not only foolish as it may cause the conflict to escalate, esp. if the op is armed, but it's also illegal and can land them in hot water.
I think a lot of the people here are pretty tough behind the keyboard. IF that were to actually translate into any kind of RL situation, then they would be going to jail too, and how will that idealism work for you then, eh?

The basics of self defense and use of deadly force are this...

You can use it IF - and this is a big if - there is a credible and immediate threat to life.

Yes, someone can get beat to death. We all know this. Was he? The fact dad got hit in the face does not mean son can kill the guy. The threat will be examined. You cannot go all tough guy and bloviate in court at your trial "Well, I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU." Doesn't matter what YOU think. What matters is what the jury thinks.

Everything must be reasonable. Dad and biker getting into a road rage incident, dad going onto biker's driveway, getting roughed up, son coming up with a gun, biker backing away hands up, son then killing biker... NOTHING about that shooting sounds reasonable to me.

What sounds reasonable to me is son producing gun, biker backing away, son getting dad, taking him home, getting an ambulance *maybe*, calling the police, and letting them do their jobs. Not "ZOMG You hit my dad BLAM BLAM BLAM!!!"

And when a guy throws his hands up backing away, you don't get to kill him anyway, even if he did hit your dad and his nose. If you do, you go to prison, just like this guy. If you do, you can always disagree as vehemently as you have in this thread. You can do that from the prison computer, I'm sure.

There needs to be a credible and active threat. Losing a fist fight you could have avoided doesn't get it.
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Old 05-27-2013, 08:19 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX-Dominance View Post
I'm going to go with the earlier one. Don't follow a MFer to his house at 10:30 looking for trouble.. in TX.. that will get you shot.
Didn't the report say they were neighbors? Kind of hard NOT to follow him home when you live next door.
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Old 05-27-2013, 08:20 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCLF Brain View Post
I think a lot of the people here are pretty tough behind the keyboard. IF that were to actually translate into any kind of RL situation, then they would be going to jail too, and how will that idealism work for you then, eh?

The basics of self defense and use of deadly force are this...

You can use it IF - and this is a big if - there is a credible and immediate threat to life.

Yes, someone can get beat to death. We all know this. Was he? The fact dad got hit in the face does not mean son can kill the guy. The threat will be examined. You cannot go all tough guy and bloviate in court at your trial "Well, I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU." Doesn't matter what YOU think. What matters is what the jury thinks.

Everything must be reasonable. Dad and biker getting into a road rage incident, dad going onto biker's driveway, getting roughed up, son coming up with a gun, biker backing away hands up, son then killing biker... NOTHING about that shooting sounds reasonable to me.

What sounds reasonable to me is son producing gun, biker backing away, son getting dad, taking him home, getting an ambulance *maybe*, calling the police, and letting them do their jobs. Not "ZOMG You hit my dad BLAM BLAM BLAM!!!"

And when a guy throws his hands up backing away, you don't get to kill him anyway, even if he did hit your dad and his nose. If you do, you go to prison, just like this guy. If you do, you can always disagree as vehemently as you have in this thread. You can do that from the prison computer, I'm sure.

There needs to be a credible and active threat. Losing a fist fight you could have avoided doesn't get it.

Thanks for illustrating my point from a LEO point of view.
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Old 05-27-2013, 08:29 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solyjr View Post
For everyone saying, due to the guy raising his hands and backing up, should of ended it, well I don't know if you should be so quick.

Does it end there? Has the biker done in the past to provoke the neighbor, has he threatened him? He's the guys neighbor, and he could very well of been acting on a threat, the guy easily could of waited a day, or a week even, and methodically beat the living out of him as he was watering his lawn or something. The biker could of broke into the other guys house and sliced his throat while he was sleeping. Sure he was backing up with his hands, but what life threatening words were coming out of his mouth. What revenge was he planning in his head as he backed up? I don't think anyone thought of these types of details. And if he was a cruiser, leather-ed, rough and tough looking type of biker, I sure as would of done the same thing, no way do I want to die in my sleep or have my family stalked, raped, murdered or whatnot.

Don't ignore the fact that the biker was killed in front of his house, not the shooters. Something tells me that little tidbit of information may mean the biker was not the aggressor.

Now, while all of your "speculation" may have or have not some basis, in the eyes of the law you have killed an unarmed man in cold blood.
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Old 05-27-2013, 08:38 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Don't ignore the fact that the biker was killed in front of his house, not the shooters. Something tells me that little tidbit of information may mean the biker was not the aggressor.

Now, while all of your "speculation" may have or have not some basis, in the eyes of the law you have killed an unarmed man in cold blood.
Welcome to the big house.
I must have misread that. I thought it was in front of the shooter's house.

Thus makes it even worse on the shooter's part. So the dad attacked the biker in front of his house and sin to the "rescue" or did dad get beat up at home and shooter went next door?
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Old 05-27-2013, 08:45 PM   #66
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From the news report:

the suspect's father got into a physical altercation on the road in front of the victim's house. Braughton allegedly came out of his residence carrying a handgun, the release said.

In my mind at least it shows that the father either a) was the aggressor or b) was responding to something the biker said. Either way, it was dumb on his part.
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Last edited by Patrick; 05-27-2013 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:50 PM   #67
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havent look at the legal code in awhile... but i seem to recall, the important sections start with "It is a defence against prosecution..."
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:40 PM   #68
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Whatever happened to "speak softly but carry a big stick"

What's the moto out here, shoot first ask questions later... Lots of trigger happy people just looking for an excuse to shoot someone.
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:32 PM   #69
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I have never posted on anything like this but the "biker" that was killed was my fiance'. He was an active duty Marine who JUST started his medical retirement for injuries he sustained in Iraq and Afghanistan. He was a 3 time combat veteran who retired from Wounded Warrior Battalion on the 12th of May----came home to Texas and was shot and killed in OUR FRONT YARD on the 24th-----I know everyone has these cute little comments about following someone home and looking for trouble....He was "following" him home because we were next door neighbors. REGARDLESS of what words were exchanged, someone else came into the mix with a gun and fired on an unarmed man----a man who was a 27 year old HERO and VETERAN and FATHER, SON, BROTHER, COUSIN, SOULMATE. Lest we never forget! RIP MANNY
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:49 PM   #70
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Quote:
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I have never posted on anything like this but the "biker" that was killed was my fiance'. He was an active duty Marine who JUST started his medical retirement for injuries he sustained in Iraq and Afghanistan. He was a 3 time combat veteran who retired from Wounded Warrior Battalion on the 12th of May----came home to Texas and was shot and killed in OUR FRONT YARD on the 24th-----I know everyone has these cute little comments about following someone home and looking for trouble....He was "following" him home because we were next door neighbors. REGARDLESS of what words were exchanged, someone else came into the mix with a gun and fired on an unarmed man----a man who was a 27 year old HERO and VETERAN and FATHER, SON, BROTHER, COUSIN, SOULMATE. Lest we never forget! RIP MANNY
Sorry for your loss and I wish you joined MH under better circumstances
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:44 PM   #71
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:12 PM   #72
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Quote:
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Sorry for your loss and I wish you joined MH under better circumstances
agreed, RIP war hero
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:18 PM   #73
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Wow. Sorry for your loss
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:28 PM   #74
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Sorry for your loss.

Such a tragic event that could have been avoided.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:26 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCLF Brain View Post
I think a lot of the people here are pretty tough behind the keyboard. IF that were to actually translate into any kind of RL situation, then they would be going to jail too, and how will that idealism work for you then, eh?

The basics of self defense and use of deadly force are this...

You can use it IF - and this is a big if - there is a credible and immediate threat to life.

Yes, someone can get beat to death. We all know this. Was he? The fact dad got hit in the face does not mean son can kill the guy. The threat will be examined. You cannot go all tough guy and bloviate in court at your trial "Well, I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU." Doesn't matter what YOU think. What matters is what the jury thinks.

Everything must be reasonable. Dad and biker getting into a road rage incident, dad going onto biker's driveway, getting roughed up, son coming up with a gun, biker backing away hands up, son then killing biker... NOTHING about that shooting sounds reasonable to me.

What sounds reasonable to me is son producing gun, biker backing away, son getting dad, taking him home, getting an ambulance *maybe*, calling the police, and letting them do their jobs. Not "ZOMG You hit my dad BLAM BLAM BLAM!!!"

And when a guy throws his hands up backing away, you don't get to kill him anyway, even if he did hit your dad and his nose. If you do, you go to prison, just like this guy. If you do, you can always disagree as vehemently as you have in this thread. You can do that from the prison computer, I'm sure.

There needs to be a credible and active threat. Losing a fist fight you could have avoided doesn't get it.
You seem to have a different stance in the zimmerman case.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:29 PM   #76
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Sorry for your loss and I wish you joined MH under better circumstances
+1
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:53 AM   #77
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Quote:
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You seem to have a different stance in the zimmerman case.
Not at all. The Zimmerman case presents a lot of different legal issues, namely provability, but to the perpetually emo I'm sure they can seem the same.
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:54 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCLF Brain View Post
There needs to be a credible and active threat. Losing a fist fight you could have avoided doesn't get it.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:04 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavenderjess View Post
I have never posted on anything like this but the "biker" that was killed was my fiance'. He was an active duty Marine who JUST started his medical retirement for injuries he sustained in Iraq and Afghanistan. He was a 3 time combat veteran who retired from Wounded Warrior Battalion on the 12th of May----came home to Texas and was shot and killed in OUR FRONT YARD on the 24th-----I know everyone has these cute little comments about following someone home and looking for trouble....He was "following" him home because we were next door neighbors. REGARDLESS of what words were exchanged, someone else came into the mix with a gun and fired on an unarmed man----a man who was a 27 year old HERO and VETERAN and FATHER, SON, BROTHER, COUSIN, SOULMATE. Lest we never forget! RIP MANNY

Sorry to hear about your loss May he rest in peace.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:36 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavenderjess View Post
I have never posted on anything like this but the "biker" that was killed was my fiance'. He was an active duty Marine who JUST started his medical retirement for injuries he sustained in Iraq and Afghanistan. He was a 3 time combat veteran who retired from Wounded Warrior Battalion on the 12th of May----came home to Texas and was shot and killed in OUR FRONT YARD on the 24th-----I know everyone has these cute little comments about following someone home and looking for trouble....He was "following" him home because we were next door neighbors. REGARDLESS of what words were exchanged, someone else came into the mix with a gun and fired on an unarmed man----a man who was a 27 year old HERO and VETERAN and FATHER, SON, BROTHER, COUSIN, SOULMATE. Lest we never forget! RIP MANNY
sorry for your loss and he is in a better place riding the best roads and enjoying the world in a different way. you will see him again one day
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