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Old 03-20-2007, 12:02 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Moody
I choose not to speak for each soldier. I was simply stating alot of people seem they can and used that to attack another member who was brave enough to write his opinion on here so he could possibly gain some insight. I personally do not care if our soldiers signed up to just get a paycheck, college grants or simply wanted to go shoot nice guns at people. I am glad we have them and I certainly have entertained the idea many times for different reasons as well.
Maybe you're right...maybe it seems as if I am speaking for all of them. If that is so, I apologize. It was not my intentions to speak for all of them, just the group that I have known and spoken with. I kind of felt like they were being attacked as a whole for doing what they do. Regardless of why they signed up, the fact is, they signed up to fight for us, whether they look at it that way or not. Maybe the real problem here is not our soldiers and why they do their jobs, but rather people disagreeing with the powers that put them there? This is like debating religion...could be done for years on end without a common understanding ever coming from it. We all see it a certain way, I do enjoy everyone's point of view, no matter how far off from my own views it may be. Alice, you definitely have some interesting views on the subject (well all subjects if you ask me:icon_bigg ) but at this point we may be beating a dead horse... unless we've missed something.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:27 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by jus10
Maybe you're right...maybe it seems as if I am speaking for all of them. If that is so, I apologize. It was not my intentions to speak for all of them, just the group that I have known and spoken with. I kind of felt like they were being attacked as a whole for doing what they do. Regardless of why they signed up, the fact is, they signed up to fight for us, whether they look at it that way or not. Maybe the real problem here is not our soldiers and why they do their jobs, but rather people disagreeing with the powers that put them there? This is like debating religion...could be done for years on end without a common understanding ever coming from it. We all see it a certain way, I do enjoy everyone's point of view, no matter how far off from my own views it may be. Alice, you definitely have some interesting views on the subject (well all subjects if you ask me:icon_bigg ) but at this point we may be beating a dead horse... unless we've missed something.
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Old 03-20-2007, 01:23 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by jus10
Maybe you're right...maybe it seems as if I am speaking for all of them. If that is so, I apologize. It was not my intentions to speak for all of them, just the group that I have known and spoken with. I kind of felt like they were being attacked as a whole for doing what they do. Regardless of why they signed up, the fact is, they signed up to fight for us, whether they look at it that way or not. Maybe the real problem here is not our soldiers and why they do their jobs, but rather people disagreeing with the powers that put them there? This is like debating religion...could be done for years on end without a common understanding ever coming from it. We all see it a certain way, I do enjoy everyone's point of view, no matter how far off from my own views it may be. Alice, you definitely have some interesting views on the subject (well all subjects if you ask me:icon_bigg ) but at this point we may be beating a dead horse... unless we've missed something.
The group you know and the group I know are different, I guess, because the people that I know that were considering, or have gone to the military, did it for themselves. They all probably care about the country, and they probably wouldn't say they aren't patriots, but that's the issue i'm trying to clarify, how much does patriotism really come in to play, especially with the current situation? I know soldiers can't drop their post and leave when the army does something they don't like, I guess that's the price of enjoying the honor of defending your country and the other secondary benefits. I'm not saying the troops are bad people, even the ones who 'fight for money', I'm trying to understand their motivations, and compare them with others. I think fighting for something that you absolutely believe in is much more satisfying than fighting for something you assume to be right because America's the best and we wouldn't do anything wrong. I think a lot of it just comes down to the fact that you can't reason with pure muscle, and that's what the army is. Maybe it is OUR responsibility, and not the soldiers, to make sure they do the right thing, but I still can't see the soldiers as completely irresponsible for atrocities because the govt told them to do it. Like if a bomber is told to drop a bomb on a city and kill 1/2 a million people, no matter how much he loves his country, he should have difficulty with that, because that's 500k people he's killing when He pushes the button.
But I think it's plain that many people can get around their morals, especially when obeying orders, but it still doesn't make it right for him or for the us govt, or really for any of us who sit back and let it happen.
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Old 03-20-2007, 01:30 PM   #64
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Also, I don't look at discussions as useless unless there's nothing being learned or nothing new being said.
I think it's useful to talk about religion also, even though we may not figure out if or the Bible are real, but i think people can still reasonably, and usefully, discuss it.
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Old 03-20-2007, 05:00 PM   #65
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Everyone's reason for joining the military is different. Some join for job security while they try to figure out their life, some join for benefits, some join for the need to "give back" to their country, etc etc. You feel that paying your taxes and trying to be a good person is "giving back" to your country. Cool. You argue against the military and what it does, but think of it this way, without that military there, this country would be in a world of trouble. Actually without our military, this country would probably not exist anymore.
And while you said that it should be up to "us" to decide what's best. You already did, you voted for someone to act on your behalf. If everyone did what they wanted or felt was right, this world would have already caved in on itself.
Bottom line is this, you cannot make everyone happy. There are people who live in the U.S. and love it and there a people who live in the U.S. who hate it. If you find it so bad living here though, please do everyone a favor and move. Maybe to Holland since you like their drug policy.
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:12 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Slingblade92
Everyone's reason for joining the military is different. Some join for job security while they try to figure out their life, some join for benefits, some join for the need to "give back" to their country, etc etc. You feel that paying your taxes and trying to be a good person is "giving back" to your country. Cool. You argue against the military and what it does, but think of it this way, without that military there, this country would be in a world of trouble. Actually without our military, this country would probably not exist anymore.
And while you said that it should be up to "us" to decide what's best. You already did, you voted for someone to act on your behalf. If everyone did what they wanted or felt was right, this world would have already caved in on itself.
Bottom line is this, you cannot make everyone happy. There are people who live in the U.S. and love it and there a people who live in the U.S. who hate it. If you find it so bad living here though, please do everyone a favor and move. Maybe to Holland since you like their drug policy.
I agree we need a military to protect us (from other militaries)
Just like we need Philip Morris telling us how to quit smoking while they sell us cigarettes.

Maybe we should get a pot going. Send Alice to Amsterdam!! How much do you have on it?
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Old 03-21-2007, 07:31 AM   #67
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Maybe we should get a pot going. Send Alice to Amsterdam!! How much do you have on it?
I personally think you should try to swim your way there, but I got a feeling that you are not dedicated enough. But hey, since you are poor and cannot afford to move to Amsterdam, maybe you should join the military for money, afterall, that is why most join....according to you.:icon_bigg
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Old 03-21-2007, 09:22 AM   #68
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I personally think you should try to swim your way there, but I got a feeling that you are not dedicated enough. But hey, since you are poor and cannot afford to move to Amsterdam, maybe you should join the military for money, afterall, that is why most join....according to you.:icon_bigg
So are you dedicated enough to swim the atlantic?
I Would join the military and kill people to benefit myself, but I don't believe in it.
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Old 03-21-2007, 10:24 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
I agree we need a military to protect us (from other militaries)
Just like we need Philip Morris telling us how to quit smoking while they sell us cigarettes.

Maybe we should get a pot going. Send Alice to Amsterdam!! How much do you have on it?
Neither you or I have enough money in the bank to be accepted into Holland as a citizen now days. They have shut the door on open enrollment but I am all for a vacation there.
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Old 03-21-2007, 10:26 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Slingblade92
I personally think you should try to swim your way there, but I got a feeling that you are not dedicated enough. But hey, since you are poor and cannot afford to move to Amsterdam, maybe you should join the military for money, afterall, that is why most join....according to you.:icon_bigg
Hopefully this is sarcasm. Alice already stated he is simply trying to learn more about the motives behind our soldiers. We should really embrace minds that try to learn and not shut them down.
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Old 03-21-2007, 10:45 AM   #71
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So are you dedicated enough to swim the atlantic?
I Would join the military and kill people to benefit myself, but I don't believe in it.
You would kill people to benefit yourself, but then you say you don't believe in it? You have that luxury not to join to benefit yourself, the ones who have joined are doing that for your benefit as well as theirs.
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Old 03-21-2007, 10:47 AM   #72
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Hopefully this is sarcasm. Alice already stated he is simply trying to learn more about the motives behind our soldiers. We should really embrace minds that try to learn and not shut them down.
Yes, he stated he is trying to learn more about the motives, yet when motives were supplied, he just shot them down. He wanted to learn about it, some gave their opinions and thus the learning happened. With the information gathered, he gained his knowledge and still berates those that do what they do. There is the problem

And yes, there is sarcasm in what I wrote.
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Old 03-21-2007, 10:48 AM   #73
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You would kill people to benefit yourself, but then you say you don't believe in it? You have that luxury not to join to benefit yourself, the ones who have joined are doing that for your benefit as well as theirs.
I said I Would killl people If I didn't not believe in it.
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Old 03-21-2007, 10:56 AM   #74
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Neither you or I have enough money in the bank to be accepted into Holland as a citizen now days. They have shut the door on open enrollment but I am all for a vacation there.
how about canada?:dontknow:
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Old 03-21-2007, 11:14 AM   #75
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I said I Would killl people If I didn't not believe in it.
W T F :BangHead:
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Old 03-21-2007, 11:16 AM   #76
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W T F :BangHead:
lol double negatives are kind of confusing
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Old 03-21-2007, 12:13 PM   #77
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how about canada?:dontknow:
Same deal, in fact Canada will not even let you visit unless you have enough money on you.
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