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Old 03-14-2007, 03:56 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
have you seen videos from the 100 or so other uncivilized countries that we didn't invade?
It's a good thing you aren't in Africa, because you'd starve.

Yes I have see some, so whats you point.

Africa........what, dude I am not the one talking out of my , so whats this got to do with me starving, your would starve also.
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Old 03-14-2007, 09:41 PM   #22
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As an ex-military man myself, I'll chime in. The men fighting in Iraq are not doing so for a paycheck. Those men signed into the U.S. military because they felt a need to pay their country back for the freedom they enjoy (At least that is why joined up) Everyone has their own reasons, but seriously, a paycheck is not it. You can make much more money and risk far far less. The troops over there now are in a "safe-keeping" mode. They are there now to ensure that another Bin Laden or Hussain does not come back in and take over. Our government is trying to make Iraq a better place. And yes, it does benefit the U.S.A., as well as the rest of the world. What war does not benefit one side? What if no one stepped in to stop Hitler in World War 2?
Whether you like it or not, you live in a country that is a dominate world power. With this comes our government "sticking its nose" into other nations' problems/issues. You are free to say what you want. That is the freedom of living here. I will ask you this though, since you enjoy your freedom, have you served your country to repay it serving you?
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Old 03-14-2007, 10:47 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingblade92
As an ex-military man myself, I'll chime in. The men fighting in Iraq are not doing so for a paycheck. Those men signed into the U.S. military because they felt a need to pay their country back for the freedom they enjoy (At least that is why joined up) Everyone has their own reasons, but seriously, a paycheck is not it. You can make much more money and risk far far less. The troops over there now are in a "safe-keeping" mode. They are there now to ensure that another Bin Laden or Hussain does not come back in and take over. Our government is trying to make Iraq a better place. And yes, it does benefit the U.S.A., as well as the rest of the world. What war does not benefit one side? What if no one stepped in to stop Hitler in World War 2?
Whether you like it or not, you live in a country that is a dominate world power. With this comes our government "sticking its nose" into other nations' problems/issues. You are free to say what you want. That is the freedom of living here. I will ask you this though, since you enjoy your freedom, have you served your country to repay it serving you?
It seems to me like recruiters specifically target low income people and i bet low income types probably make up the majority of the infantry.
I pay taxes and try to be a good person, that's the best I will do for serving my country.
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Old 03-14-2007, 11:21 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
It seems to me like recruiters specifically target low income people and i bet low income types probably make up the majority of the infantry.
I pay taxes and try to be a good person, that's the best I will do for serving my country.
Actually recruiters just recruit. Simple as that. If that's the best you are willing to do, then I feel for you.
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Old 03-15-2007, 12:11 AM   #25
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thanks. it's not easy not giving a **** about what country you live in, but rather how you live in it, but someone has to do it.
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:12 AM   #26
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So, it just seems like people fight because of pride.
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:26 AM   #27
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So, it just seems like people fight because of pride.
no....it is over money, power, and political interests/beliefs. Street fights are because of pride...
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Old 03-15-2007, 04:33 PM   #28
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Quote:
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no....it is over money, power, and political interests/beliefs. Street fights are because of pride...
That will depends on the point of view, I bet u I can link all them back to pride :icon_bigg
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Old 03-15-2007, 04:36 PM   #29
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That will depends on the point of view, I bet u I can link all them back to pride :icon_bigg
'cause pride is what keeps our economy going, right?
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Old 03-15-2007, 04:44 PM   #30
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ok my .02 again like always....

i meen why does it matter why they r there??? for money or for what thier believe in?? they r fighting there so u dont have 2, i meen if no 1 signd up then we would have a draft dont ya think?? so to me it doesnt matter to me. My brother in law has been to iraq he came back from his 3rd tour in Dec. and in Dec of this yr hes goin back... he goes cause he loves his family and he loves this place.


somethin off the back burner... have eny of yall ever seen the movie
"left behind"... well if u havnt then go watch it...

my brother in law was watching it and basically had a break down he doesnt think hes goin to heavn cause of his "job" like i said already if he wasnt there and if the other 857657657456 people wouldnt have signd up they would end up having to go eny wayz (draft) all that matters is that they r fighting and im sure not eny 1 think well if i go and kill some 1 i get a check no i dont think cause they can die while there there also.


I dont like the war myself and i wish it was never started but happins and yes its a job... not the best but its 1. not tryn to be all jumpy and , but they fight for us no matter how u look at it
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Old 03-19-2007, 04:42 PM   #31
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Since when does everybody speek for each individual soldier and not to sound brash myself but you guys or gals really ripped into Alice. The fact is... Soilders are payed killers. Whether you like to hear that or not. Maybe some signed up to be great patriots (whatever that means), they had no other choices, college loans, etc... but at the moment they are getting paid to do some kind of job in the war machine and part of the war machine is killing the enemy. Is it not?

I mean lets be honest... if everybody was signing up to be great patriots then why all the commercials on TV?
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Old 03-19-2007, 04:47 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
So this has been a theme for me for a while now, and I thought I'd post here to see what other people's feelings are.
It seems to me like a lot of our troops don't know, don't care why we're in iraq and don't want to be there. So to me that says they're just staying there because 'it's their job' which leads me to believe they are fighting for their paychecks. Now you can throw in whatever patriotic mumbo jumbo you want and bless the troops, but the way I see it the ones who are there fighting for something they don't believe in, killing people for their paychecks, etc. are worse than the terrorists who die for what they believe in, no matter how crazy it might be. Now I'm not saying the terrorists are good people, as they especially target civilians often times, but at least their motivated by something higher than money and sheer obedience.
I'm not arguing which side's victory will be better, or who has killed more innocent civilians(america probably), but i think i could it be useful for everyone to stop seeing the terrorists as these evil, crazed zealots, when really we're doing the same thing they are, if not worse.
What are your feelings?
Good points but does it really matter anymore? What we are really facing is a clash of cultures who are trying to maintain power. Whether that power is obtained through religion, money or oil.
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Old 03-19-2007, 05:00 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
Since when does everybody speek for each individual soldier and not to sound brash myself but you guys or gals really ripped into Alice. The fact is... Soldiers are payed killers. Whether you like to hear that or not. Maybe some signed up to be great patriots (whatever that means), they had no other choices, college loans, etc... but at the moment they are getting paid to do some kind of job in the war machine and part of the war machine is killing the enemy. Is it not?

I mean lets be honest... if everybody was signing up to be great patriots then why all the commercials on TV?
very true....but the reason they are doing it is because they believe in protecting their (and ours) ways of life, not because they are just trying to get paid and that's it. If they just wanted a paycheck there a thousands of ways to earn a living other than serving in the military. Alice doesn't seem to understand that.
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Old 03-19-2007, 05:23 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
Since when does everybody speek for each individual soldier and not to sound brash myself but you guys or gals really ripped into Alice. The fact is... Soilders are payed killers. Whether you like to hear that or not. Maybe some signed up to be great patriots (whatever that means), they had no other choices, college loans, etc... but at the moment they are getting paid to do some kind of job in the war machine and part of the war machine is killing the enemy. Is it not?

I mean lets be honest... if everybody was signing up to be great patriots then why all the commercials on TV?

If you pay taxes you are part of the war machine. If you live in The United States you are a killer in absentia.

Like NOFX says, murder the government.

But no need to blame the soldiers.
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Old 03-19-2007, 06:35 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jus10
very true....but the reason they are doing it is because they believe in protecting their (and ours) ways of life, not because they are just trying to get paid and that's it. If they just wanted a paycheck there a thousands of ways to earn a living other than serving in the military. Alice doesn't seem to understand that.
I think that the army's probably considered 'the best choice' for a lot of people, especially the poor and those who didn't do well in school(often the same thing). Not everyone has 1000 career opportunities lined up, and the recruiters make it sound so fun(say, did you know JIMI HENDRIX was in the military?! and you get to **** all sorts of foreign women!).
Maybe they are there for both reasons, money and patriotism, but how much money vs. how much reason to be fighting can you take away before the soldiers get fed up? It seems like a lot of the reason has been taken away
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Old 03-19-2007, 06:36 PM   #36
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why must we stay where we don't belong?
because there's never gonna be enough space,
so eat the meek,
savor the taste.
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Old 03-19-2007, 08:33 PM   #37
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Quote:
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Maybe they are there for both reasons, money and patriotism, but how much money vs. how much reason to be fighting can you take away before the soldiers get fed up? It seems like a lot of the reason has been taken away
What does a soldier do if they get fed up? Even if they totally disagree with the reasons for this war, they're stuck until their contract is up or else they face Court Martial and imprisonment. Many of my friends had just re-enlisted prior to Sept. 11 and were then obligated for another 4-6 years. Many people had 10+ years in service and would lose their retirement on top of putting their families at risk if they just quit. There's an infinite number of reasons that people enlist and some are undoubtedly more honorable than others.
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Old 03-19-2007, 08:48 PM   #38
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What does a soldier do if they get fed up? Even if they totally disagree with the reasons for this war, they're stuck until their contract is up or else they face Court Martial and imprisonment. Many of my friends had just re-enlisted prior to Sept. 11 and were then obligated for another 4-6 years. Many people had 10+ years in service and would lose their retirement on top of putting their families at risk if they just quit. There's an infinite number of reasons that people enlist and some are undoubtedly more honorable than others.
yeah, i wondered about that also. i don't know what the troops can do except get off
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Old 03-19-2007, 08:50 PM   #39
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screw it, let's pull back all our forces worldwide. Disband the military as a whole. Use their payroll to "fix" problems here in the states (which would include deporting and closing our borders)<-----which also leads to a depression as 90% of our goods are made overseas. Then lets take away our government since people think it's evil. I guess then we'll be in Utopia right?


































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Old 03-19-2007, 09:06 PM   #40
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yep, that pretty much sums it up.




































































(also being sarcastic)
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