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Old 04-12-2013, 06:18 AM   #161
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:36 AM   #162
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First thing is, if I ever kill myself on the streets, DO NOT put together a fund raiser for me. I would hate for my family to see a fund in my name struggle to raise a few thousand bucks.

This morning I woke up, scanned FB, and noticed a fund raiser for the young man who lost his life last week on Racer's Road. The one that went unnoticed... remember? I clicked on the link and noticed that $396 of a $10,000.00 goal had be raised. I think it's up to $450 now. Long way to go, you'd think, but imagine if everyone on the ride gave $200.00 and the other self proclaimed wealthy guys picked up a litte more of the tab, the $10k would be raised as fast as you could made 6 runs up and down racers road.

Several months ago a guy crashed on 3090. He's a parapalegic now. I saw a post of his on facebook the other day. The day the accident happened there were so many visitors and people stayed until well into the night. As each day passed fewer and fewer people came. Now he is home, the visitors are few and far between, and most have gone on with their lives and the incident is over for them. For him, it has just begun and will continue for the next 40 years of his life.

Not too long ago, at Rio Bravo MX, on a wednesday night, a guy crashed. Maybe 6 weeks ago? He just left ICU and is at TIRR now. His family is in another country. He has his girlfriend here. I'm not sure of the longterm prognosis but I dont thing it's super optimistic. Life has gone on for those that were there with him. He is still very much in the struggle. I was at Rio that night.

There was Tim Waters a few years ago. I was on that ride. I think of him periodically. I'm sure his family misses and thinks of him far more than I do, or anyone else who was on that ride think of him.

And Coach Dave... can't forget him. I wonder how often his children think of him?

And there were many more before I came around and plenty that I dont know about who's lives were changed forever, whose families were devasted, kids left fatherless or without a mother. Wives widowed, etc. For those people and their families it was a very real and horrific experience and they'll never forget teh day it happened or the phone call they received. It was much more than just a screen name or some guy who showed up on an occassional ride with people who acted like they really cared about them.

I think what I am getting at is that you newer guys, or even not so new guys, should really understand where your life falls, in terms of importance, with the guys you choose to ride with and race down 3090, 149, racers road, CRR, 610 or whatever lame twisty you ride. The importance of your life falls after theirs, their wife, GF, kids, job, mom, dad, bother, sister, cousins, neighbors and so on and so on... in other words your life actually matters very little to a lot of them. I know guys who get off on people crashing trying to hang with them. I know guys thagt'll ask you for parts of your crashed motorcycle while you're laying in the ditch waiting on an ambulance to come get you. So while you're out there trying to be buddy buddy with some dude(s) who really doesn't give a about you, long term, you're showing complete disregard and respect for those who WILL foot the bill for your funeral... no matter how much it is. They will borrow the money and take on the debt, to make sure you're buried with respect.

I don't know what I'm trying to say... That kids life is just weighing heavy on my heart this morning.

Know one really gives a who made it to Yankees the fastest last Sunday. No one really cares who lead the fast group. Except for the litle picture folks, the rest of us are laughing at you and hoping that some young, impressionable kid doesn't get killed in the process of seeking some dude approval, who at the end of the day, will forget about you a week after you're gone. Been there, done that... nobody cares.

Ride your ride. those guys.
Having been on one of these rides that changed a guys life forever.... I couldn't agree more. Nothing worse than feeling helpless as life flight finally takes off with your fellow rider...... Except being the guy who is now laying on the ground in pain wondering why you tried to impress the guy in front of you by keeping up with him. I've been both of these guys and it sucks.

Life does go on for those of us who watched our buddy crash.... I was lucky enough to not get hurt too bad. When I go on group rides now I tend to fall to the back and look for riders who seem less than confident in their riding and talk to them about riding their own ride and not worrying about impressing anyone.

My bike is now officially off the street though. I feel safer and more in control of my destiny on the track because I know there isn't a car coming around the next corner in my direction.
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:59 AM   #163
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:07 AM   #164
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Shouldn't be too hard at the speeds you ride at.
I have to go slow or you'll try to slalom through construction barrels and jump of the roadway
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:30 AM   #165
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So I'm wondering, is this thread about street riders apathy for fallen (hurt) riders?

About just warning new street riders not to go out there and push beyond their limits?

Or is this to cover all rider apathy and a warning for all riders (street & track)?
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:50 AM   #166
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Very well said Brandt. I didn't read everyone's replies but know what you're talking about and I'm sure some will be offended but most will know what you're saying. Especially the ones who have lost people and then seen life carry on for themselves while the mother still grieves 4 years later for her son she lost. How you wrote it is how it usually goes. Sad but true.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:40 AM   #167
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Curious what professional racers ride/rode with the SMR group...
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:22 AM   #168
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So I'm wondering, is this thread about street riders apathy for fallen (hurt) riders?

About just warning new street riders not to go out there and push beyond their limits?

Or is this to cover all rider apathy and a warning for all riders (street & track)?
Yes.
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:22 AM   #169
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Ride your ride. those guys.
Right on man. Good post
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:57 AM   #170
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Since no one saw him crash, this is all just speculation. Obviously he was so far ahead of the riders behind him, they didn't even notice he was missing on any of those long straights leading back to I-10. He must have been riding faster than the riders behind him. A lot of riders try to run a road they're familiar with a little faster each time they ride it. This could be what happened to Mark. That bridge has a dip in it and hitting it too fast could upset the bike plus he could have turned in too early, add too much speed and it could have caused him to run wide. In my experience, especially in group rides, a vast majority of crashes are due to rider error.

I wasn't there, I didn't witness the crash. Apparently no one did.

RIP, Mark
I posted a few pic of the crash site that shows that Mark made it through the bridge just fine, he was probably 40-50 ft away from the bridge and was already exiting the turn, the road ahead was a short stretch of straight road followed by another turn, under normal circunstances most riders would wreck mid corner but never when there were out of the turn already.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:06 AM   #171
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I posted a few pic of the crash site that shows that Mark made it through the bridge just fine, he was probably 40-50 ft away from the bridge and was already exiting the turn, the road ahead was a short stretch of straight road followed by another turn, under normal circunstances most riders would wreck mid corner but never when there were out of the turn already.
I saw the pictures. The bridge could have him up for the next turn. That was a turn he crashed on. He knocked down one of the chevrons (signs) indicating a motorist needs to turn. I didn't hear that there were any skid marks. A lot of riders are going to hit the brakes if something suddenly appears in their lane. No one knows what happened unless they saw it, saw the video, or actually took measurements and had experience reconstructing fatal motor vehicle accidents. Plenty of experienced riders have made mistakes and crashed. Rider error has at least the same probability as anything.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:15 AM   #172
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I posted a few pic of the crash site that shows that Mark made it through the bridge just fine, he was probably 40-50 ft away from the bridge and was already exiting the turn, the road ahead was a short stretch of straight road followed by another turn, under normal circunstances most riders would wreck mid corner but never when there were out of the turn already.
Not sure that'd I'd call this one "normal circumstances." I'm no accident investigator, but where Mark went off is almost exactly where someone who went into that turn too low would stand it up to keep from crossing the center line. The guy I was riding with on Saturday didn't stay high enough when he entered that turn. He had to slow down and stand his bike up to stay out of the oncoming lane. The only reason he didn't hit the ditch was because he was going so slow to start with that he had time to correct. That same mistake at double his speed would have put him right where Mark ended up.
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:30 PM   #173
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Well as a near total noobie returning to riding as much as I love to socialize with my fellow bikers, based on what I've seen and read I will likely never do a "spirited" group ride with MH because with a wife and a kid and a non riding life, I haven't the capital to ride that pace on the street. My first time up 3090 I'm glad I was alone. It forced me to plan the ride and be sane about the execution. Had I been following a faster rider I couldn't have ridden my style of braking and turn in points. I certainly might not have slowed to 15mph in one 90 degree left hander if the rider in front of me was sucking me in at 20mph and surely would have crashed. Its not sbout ego. In the Army I learned that formation flying causes us to make assumptions about our craft based on how other aircraft are responding instead direct feed back from our own. Group rides cause you to make decisions sbouy grip levels, braking points, entry speeds ect based not just by what your own bike is telling you, but also by whst your brain calculates to be possible based on what the bike in front is doing. With all the private drives and crtter potential there is no reason to run 3090 beyond a ton at any point and yet groups do. Point is you csn ride like there no tomorrow and some day there won't be or ride with concentration that gors Beyoncé completing the next turn to completing the whole trip. My 2cents ymmv no noobd were harmed in the drafting of this post.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:49 PM   #174
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Well as a near total noobie returning to riding as much as I love to socialize with my fellow bikers, based on what I've seen and read I will likely never do a "spirited" group ride with MH because with a wife and a kid and a non riding life, I haven't the capital to ride that pace on the street. My first time up 3090 I'm glad I was alone. It forced me to plan the ride and be sane about the execution. Had I been following a faster rider I couldn't have ridden my style of braking and turn in points. I certainly might not have slowed to 15mph in one 90 degree left hander if the rider in front of me was sucking me in at 20mph and surely would have crashed. Its not sbout ego. In the Army I learned that formation flying causes us to make assumptions about our craft based on how other aircraft are responding instead direct feed back from our own. Group rides cause you to make decisions sbouy grip levels, braking points, entry speeds ect based not just by what your own bike is telling you, but also by whst your brain calculates to be possible based on what the bike in front is doing. With all the private drives and crtter potential there is no reason to run 3090 beyond a ton at any point and yet groups do. Point is you csn ride like there no tomorrow and some day there won't be or ride with concentration that gors Beyoncé completing the next turn to completing the whole trip. My 2cents ymmv no noobd were harmed in the drafting of this post.
That is the point of the OP, I believe. If you show up to group ride always ride your own ride no matter what the guy in front of you is doing. If you feel your are holding ppl back let them pass you.

It is up to the individual to keep themselves safe, no one else knows what you are able to handle at any given circumstance but you.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:01 PM   #175
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That is the point of the OP, I believe. If you show up to group ride always ride your own ride no matter what the guy in front of you is doing. If you feel your are holding ppl back let them pass you.
This is probably EXACTLY what he meant. I remember back in 07 or so I went on a MH group ride out of PP1. I was fortunate enough to go on some group rides with some pretty experienced people out to Fayetville for a few months prior. I think Noctem (he was Nox at the time) was leading this particular ride....we ventured to I-10 (remember, at this point I-10 was constantly under construction and lane patterns altered day to day)...before I knew it, everyone was doing 100+ down 10....I held back at 90 mph. Dudes were waving at me like I was slowing them down....fck them. I didn't know what had changed from my previous drive down this particular stretch and I sure wasn't doing 100+mph to figure it out. Needless to say we stopped at the JIB in Brookshire before "hitting the good roads". Based on obesrvation of the groups riding style, I was last to leave the parking lot. I believe we got to the second turn on 362 before "Mr. brotherman that was so at me for not going faster on I-10" wadded his up in someones barbed wire fence. It was a curve....no chevrons, no warning speeds, no nothing. It was a VERY long easy curve.... The MF'er drove right off the road the moment there was a "challenge". He was fortunate to walk away, but he screwed up the rest of my ride that day. That was my last big group ride with MH....the rest of my backroad runs were done with small groups of 5-10 that I personally knew.
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:27 PM   #176
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I could be wrong but riding with people you "really know" implies that they or you care beyond the bounds of "yea that's a cat a ride with sometimes." I think the OP was quite clear in what they were saying and I'm perplexed by the confusion. If you're gonna ride on the edge don't do it to impress anyone because the consequences extend to those in your lI'mife who are with you beyond the three hour ride. If you're riding with the opinions of others in mind let it be that of your every day commited family not the random cats you meet on a ride. Those cats care but they aren't committed. I don't, can't, shouldn't expect them to be. Most of all don't be that cat who puts pressure on others intentional or not, to do things their families will live to regret.

My point is group riding by its nature pre empts a person from riding their own ride because one begins to calculate what is safe based in part on the success of other machine/pilots. The distraction of keeping track of others in the formation can be enough to cause/allow that one critical mistake. That's just the nature of the game. The best group rides\ leaders help save cats from themselves.

My legal people tell me I have to fully reserve the right to be completely wrong, apparently it happens quite often.
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:31 PM   #177
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I wouldnt make one more ride for the year if some one went down on my ride and died..
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:56 PM   #178
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Quote:
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I could be wrong but riding with people you "really know" implies that they or you care beyond the bounds of "yea that's a cat a ride with sometimes." I think the OP was quite clear in what they were saying and I'm perplexed by the confusion. If you're gonna ride on the edge don't do it to impress anyone because the consequences extend to those in your lI'mife who are with you beyond the three hour ride. If you're riding with the opinions of others in mind let it be that of your every day commited family not the random cats you meet on a ride. Those cats care but they aren't committed. I don't, can't, shouldn't expect them to be. Most of all don't be that cat who puts pressure on others intentional or not, to do things their families will live to regret.

My point is group riding by its nature pre empts a person from riding their own ride because one begins to calculate what is safe based in part on the success of other machine/pilots. The distraction of keeping track of others in the formation can be enough to cause/allow that one critical mistake. That's just the nature of the game. The best group rides\ leaders help save cats from themselves.

My legal people tell me I have to fully reserve the right to be completely wrong, apparently it happens quite often.
Welcome to MH. You obviously bring some other valid expirence to this and understand. As you said it was quite clear and i thnak original poster, he may have saved several lives, far more effective than posting RIP in threads. Thanks for input.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:00 PM   #179
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I could be wrong but riding with people you "really know" implies that they or you care beyond the bounds of "yea that's a cat a ride with sometimes." I think the OP was quite clear in what they were saying and I'm perplexed by the confusion. If you're gonna ride on the edge don't do it to impress anyone because the consequences extend to those in your lI'mife who are with you beyond the three hour ride. If you're riding with the opinions of others in mind let it be that of your every day commited family not the random cats you meet on a ride. Those cats care but they aren't committed. I don't, can't, shouldn't expect them to be. Most of all don't be that cat who puts pressure on others intentional or not, to do things their families will live to regret.

My point is group riding by its nature pre empts a person from riding their own ride because one begins to calculate what is safe based in part on the success of other machine/pilots. The distraction of keeping track of others in the formation can be enough to cause/allow that one critical mistake. That's just the nature of the game. The best group rides\ leaders help save cats from themselves.

My legal people tell me I have to fully reserve the right to be completely wrong, apparently it happens quite often.
Good things cats have 9 lives

But seriously you sound like someone on here i would feel safe riding with.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:06 PM   #180
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