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Old 04-11-2013, 01:05 PM   #101
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:13 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by urbanXJ View Post
Look wagon, the guy just sat on the couch and said what was on his mind.

And you come in and all over like a retarted chimp.

I don't care who the you are, shut the up.
And this is a useful input to this thread? I happened to be on the ride when mark was killed. very unfortunate. I've seen so many of these young guys go down trying to keep up. I agree with Brandt on all this, but your comment just shows how much of an you really are.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:19 PM   #103
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:21 PM   #104
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I'm not overly concerned about feelings. I mean a care about people's feelings but they're just feelings ya know.

There's this little elementary saying that goes like this.. "If it don't apply, let it fly". You know. "If the shoe fits wear it".

I'd guess that the only people whose feelings would get hurt about a little rant, hoping to maybe help a noob to the forum, would be because the shoe fit.
If the glove don't fit, you must acquit - no, maybe not that one.

I thought you were generally spot-on. The part that many aren't commenting on though is the damage and pain that serious injury and death leaves on all of the other people in your life. It's not just about keeping yourself alive - it's also about not subjecting those who care about you to the kind of pain that it brings.

People spend a lot of time on the board telling others to mind their own business and ride their own rides - maybe rightfully so. Whether it's about not wearing gear, riding like an idiot, doing stupid things in traffic or boasting about how big your street-cred is, it's never well received. I don't bother too much with it most of the time. We've all done stupid things, but some of us have lived to tell about it and learn from it. Some never will, and others will learn the hard way. In the end, even if you "died doing something you loved" you still died and people are hurt by it.

Hypotheically speaking, if each person were greeted by a higher power immediately after their death and given the opportunity to come back to life with the agreement that they would never ever engage in the activity that led to their death again, how many would refuse that offer? I know many in the military and law enforcement that would probably not accept the offer, but how many that die from sport and hobby wouldn't give it up just to be alive again?

I've engaged in a lot of high risk things in the last 42 years and I've done my best to exercise judgement and preparation to make the best of inherently dangerous activities. In the end, I don't do as much as I used to, but I don't exactly spend all of my time locked in a panic room wrapped in bubble wrap either. If and when I ever die doing any of it, I hope that my family at least realizes that I was always trying to be as prepared and protected as I could, without unnecessarily increasing the likelihood of danger through my own carelessness or lack of judgement. It's hard to ride the line between having no life of your own, and being selfish with the feelings of those who care about you.

I've buried a lot of folks over the years who died "doing what they loved." It's somewhat comforting to those who understand, but not enough for most of those left behind. It's always about more than just yourself. I used to ride with a guy in Georgia that kept a pic of his kids taped to his tank. I didn't have any of my own at the time, but I get it now. I remember not riding as much when my wife was pregnant with our youngest because I just couldn't stand the thought of not being around to see her born. Getting off the bike and picking her up out of a playpen in our paddock tent at Talladega GPR is a memory that will always stick with me too. Put things in perspective when I got back on it and headed out onto the track later in the day.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:30 PM   #105
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I put knee down on Houston's overpasses.
not really
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:30 PM   #106
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I understand exactly what the OP was saying and I agree 100%. Some still don't get it by thinking its street or track related. I also agree with some of the comments about riding your own ride within your limits and not trying to impress anyone as you ride. I've been down 3 times in the 30+ years I've been riding and I can honestly say every one was my fault! I lived and I learned, not everyone gets that chance. I've done the hospital visits the funerals and the fundraisers and it so true that people will move on eventually. If you don't care about yourself then never expect anyone to care about you. I will ride till I can't ride any longer because I love it and through the years I've learned some things that will hopefully keep me safe on those rides. I can ride with friends and have a blast or alone and totally enjoy myself just because riding is my release and my way of unwinding. I've been the dude with a '69 sporty riding in the rain and cold to work to feed my family because thats all I had. Now I am in a much better position and I get to choose which bike I'll ride on my day off for the pure pleasure of it. I get to ride now and I don't do stuff that will take that away from me. Going down would cost time off, medical bills, losing your job and losing your bike from crashing. So if you trully love this thing we say we love so much on this forum it's up to you and you only to keep the love affair going! I believe everyone on this forum is grown, so if your'e not heeding the warnings about riding recklessly and learning from post like this then I expect to read a post about your funeral, fundraiser or hospital visit soon. It's dangerous enough for a good rider riding their ride safely (many have gone down through no fault of their own), don't be a statistic
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:42 PM   #107
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:48 PM   #108
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:49 PM   #109
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Quote:
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Ego and people's personalities are the bigger problem, not riding, not riding street, not riding track.

It's not the group, it's YOU. If you can't control yourself, no one else will be able to.

At the end, we can say all we want, talk down to whoever was there and whoever says they feel bad... But is THAT person that was in control and made their decision.
I agree with Ivan and also agree with Brandt. I do see that this heads up thread is well intended for the younger and less experienced riders, i think it is a good thing to warm them and let them know what to expect when you ride with a group of other bikers. Age does play a factor but EGO is the real enemy, no matter how old the rider is, if he has a huge ego he will bring it to the ride no matter if he is 18 or 40 years old, unfortunately what happened to Mark was not under his control, i think it must have involved a car running into his lane when he exited that corner. He was riding in group 2 so we can rule out the "keeping up with the faster guys on group 1 theory" because the first group always leaves 10 minutes ahead of the slower groups 2 & 3, I have also ridden with him just the day before his accident, it was a smaller group of only 4 riders and he rode at his own pace the whole time and did not attempt to keep up with anyone, so although we can assume that younger riders are more likely to riding beyond their limits, this was not the case with Mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=R0W4ij5mSbg

We as ride leaders can only do so much, we split our groups according to experience level so noobs can only ride in group 3 and riders with a bit more experience can ride in group 2 where the pace is a bit faster. But we dont let anyone on group 1 if we are not sure of their experience. I am all for safety and we are constantly adjusting our SMRs to accommodate riders of all skill levels to have a good time riding together, after all we share the same passion like eating, so why not enjoy what we like in a group environment?

I do agree with many that this is a dangerous hobby, but if everyone leaves their egos behind and exercises common sense and follow the rules on group rides, street riding can be done fairly safe!

Brandt, i know you are also passionate about safety otherwise you wouldnt have posted this thread..... and you have your share of street miles before taking it it to the track, i am not sure if you are free on Friday night but if you do i would like to hear some suggestions from you on how to make group rides a lot safer based on your own experience, i think a simple warning thread is a good idea to reach out to the younger members of this community but realistically who really listens? most will read it once and forget about it the next day so the only way to preach for safety is to actually getting involved and reach out to those kids in person.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:51 PM   #110
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it would all be fixed if everyone just got a tmax
how would getting a tmax help you avoid a car in the opposite direction going over to your lane?
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:56 PM   #111
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I was thinking about a spirited ride on saturday
What about a BORC flight???
Hey man i think BORC flight is great, specially when i am not in the same plane with you
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:00 PM   #112
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It's just a little heads up post that hopefully some new guy who was planning to join a spirited ride, and try to keep up, might read and rethink his plan. That's all. Live and let live.
Oh okay I see what you are saying now.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:07 PM   #113
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Hey man i think BORC flight is great, specially when i am not in the same plane with you
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:08 PM   #114
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Been on a few group rides with folks on here myself, done a few track days as well. The whole idea of breaking up a "Street Ride" into 3 groups for faster or slower riders in my mind has always been......not well thought out.
It's a street ride.....not a track day.......so I would think that you would stay together and ride at a pace comfortable for everyone.

Anyway, I agree with Brandt.

I think the point hit home last October, a memorial ride for YankeeR6 that had about 30 people show up? 5 years ago it was closer to 300? And he was a pretty popular guy.

I'll stick to the small group, or riding solo, and I'll wave if you pass me.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:09 PM   #115
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not really
Nice steady form, though.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:10 PM   #116
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Been on a few group rides with folks on here myself, done a few track days as well. The whole idea of breaking up a "Street Ride" into 3 groups for faster or slower riders in my mind has always been......not well thought out.
It's a street ride.....not a track day.......so I would think that you would stay together and ride at a pace comfortable for everyone.

Anyway, I agree with Brandt.

I think the point hit home last October, a memorial ride for YankeeR6 that had about 30 people show up? 5 years ago it was closer to 300? And he was a pretty popular guy.

I'll stick to the small group, or riding solo, and I'll wave if you pass me.
I haven't forgot, Matt.
Now that I live where he originally came from,
I think about him more often.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:29 PM   #117
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Been on a few group rides with folks on here myself, done a few track days as well. The whole idea of breaking up a "Street Ride" into 3 groups for faster or slower riders in my mind has always been......not well thought out.
It's a street ride.....not a track day.......so I would think that you would stay together and ride at a pace comfortable for everyone.

Anyway, I agree with Brandt.

I think the point hit home last October, a memorial ride for YankeeR6 that had about 30 people show up? 5 years ago it was closer to 300? And he was a pretty popular guy.

I'll stick to the small group, or riding solo, and I'll wave if you pass me.
Splitting into smaller groups has two main objectives and both have nothing to do with speed at all:

1. It is easier for the leader/sweeper to see if anyone is missing if he only has to memorize 10+ riders vs 50+ riders.

2. Smaller groups also improve the visual aspect of the ride, meaning it is easier for the leader/sweeper to make a quick head count for a group of 10+ riders vs a much larger group of 50+ riders.

3. We do put the slower/less experienced riders in the last group so they can go at their own pace and not drag the more experienced riders into the equation, if it was a short 10 minute ride i am sure everyone in the large group would agree with this arrangement but on a ride that takes 2-3 hours, i am pretty sure lots of people will decide to go home or break out from formation to complete the ride by themselves.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:39 PM   #118
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This noob, listened and took it to heart.

But I have to agree with Jimrad though. I have my own life to live and if I took time to do every charity, memorial ride, ...etc, I wouldn't be able to have my own life. This does not mean that it doesn't hit home every time I hear about a rider dying or that I didn't care about that person when I'm not thinking about the loss 24/7 like their family is weeks after they passed. I take the loss of anyone's life seriously whether I knew that person or not.

If there is one thing I know, it is that it is a lot better to learn from someone else's mistakes so that you don't have to learn the hard way.


OP: Thank you for the thread.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:40 PM   #119
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Problem is you've got these public spirited rides with parking lots full of nice bikes that are ridden hard because the older guys and more experienced riders have more money and skills and the young guys so badly want to be a part of it. It's like inviting an 17 year old kid over to drink scotch. He thinks he's cool for an hour but will just wind up puking on your carpet.
I'm still reading the thread, but I have to see, this nailed it.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:41 PM   #120
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I agree with the split. You listed the reasons and I agree with them. We have almost all been on group rides. Most rides I have been in the front. Some I have chosen to stay back. My reasons vary from not knowing the group, not knowing the route, or just not feeling "right" that day. There will always be riders in a group that feel the need to ride at a more spirited clip. No reason others should felt pressured to keep up. Back in the day I went on a few rides with riders much more skiled than I was. I had some close calls as a result. I was lucky. None resulted in an accident or worse. I learned my lesson. Some dont get the chance to learn because their first mishap was enough to kill them.
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