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Old 03-22-2007, 01:24 PM   #21
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The sad thing is that it actually makes perfect sense when considering the current climate of things in that particualr region of the country...
I wonder how we can change these things. As a general citizen it sure seems we have no ability to affect change anymore. It is even difficult to get involved at a local level of goverment.
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Old 03-22-2007, 01:54 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
I wonder how we can change these things. As a general citizen it sure seems we have no ability to affect change anymore. It is even difficult to get involved at a local level of goverment.
Strength in numbers

I believe that if we- the general public- began 1) holding our elected officials accountable for their actions and inactions (i.e. Not re-electing them for reasons such as not keeping the promises made in order to get into their positions in the first place) 2) Not allowing our government officials to become career congressmen/senators/judges in some circumstances and serving countless terms, thereby reducing the effectiveness of lobbyists' and lobbying activities -such as free trips, cruises cars, college educations, etc- due to the fact that these newly elected officials should be very much aware-mostly because of a newly observed precedent whereby the people effectively fire those officials characteristic of those listed in the former- that his position is itself at risk should he show signs that he is less inclined to fight for the rights of civilians and more for lobbyists'. 3) Being more diligent and educated about the process of choosing candidates. 4)Lobbying Reform- Electing officials that are for lobbying reform and more strict procedural guidelines for dealing with lobbyists' (i.e. Reporting profits acquired from lobbyists', prohibiting such profiting, limiting elected officials ability to come into contact by implementing a policy which states something along the lines of congressional officials not having the ability to have private or unofficial meeting with members of private organizations). There are alot of others and I think that these things would definately not be done overnight but were we to just start now, I believe we would begin to see a difference. Sadly, people either don't know, don't care or are just too caught up in the now to do anything about it.
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Old 03-22-2007, 02:01 PM   #23
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^ All I can say is we'll be sorry if we go to government health care.
Government sponsored anything has drawbacks. Heathcare now sucks, only due to greed.
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Old 03-22-2007, 02:02 PM   #24
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I am strongly for term limits and such on elected officials because it seems that the longer that they are in office, the more corruptable they are, only now, they are so far along in the game that they are very much aware of what they can and cannot get away with along with the fact that they have friends in high places which would act in their favor due to mutual interests. Having someone in office fore more than 20 years is ridiculous, I mean not only are they so removed from that people of their respective states that IMO they can no longer effectively recognize the needs of the people in those areas but also, they no longer care. I mean, in most cases they have moved to Washington D.C. and have a PR person handling all incoming mail. Is that ludicrous or what?
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Old 03-22-2007, 02:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
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^ All I can say is we'll be sorry if we go to government health care.
Government sponsored anything has drawbacks. Heathcare now sucks, only due to greed.
Such is the reasoning behind the multi-tiered system. Only part of it is government sponsored, meeting the most basic needs of the have nots while still allowing the option of private healthcare and other organizational coverage for the haves. But I do agree, most times the government screws it up when they alone have their hands in the jar. :eh:
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Old 03-22-2007, 02:07 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Such is the reasoning behind the multi-tiered system. Only part of it is government sponsored, meeting the most basic needs of the have nots while still allowing the option of private health and other organizational coverage for the haves. But I do agree, most times the government screws it up. :eh:
Eventhough, means the have nots are payed for buy the haves in the short and long run.
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Old 03-22-2007, 02:09 PM   #27
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I think you have some good ideas here Moody! I like the multi-tier plan...
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Old 03-22-2007, 02:16 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick H.I.C.
Eventhough, means the have nots are payed for by the haves in the short and long run.
Such is nature of our system...is it not already pretty much that way now...? May as well make it be worthwhile due to the fact that the people that need the help are getting it rather than people getting stOopid rich...I believe it would be for the greater good.
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Old 03-22-2007, 02:57 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Such is nature of our system...is it not already pretty much that way now...? May as well make it be worthwhile due to the fact that the people that need the help are getting it rather than people getting stOopid rich...I believe it would be for the greater good.
So why is it that people who want to freeload should be cared for. Some need it others just ride it. The good ol' days you worked or died. Freeloaders can get off their backside get a life and quit leeching. Socialism sucks.
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Old 03-22-2007, 03:12 PM   #30
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So why is it that people who want to freeload should be cared for. Some need it others just ride it. The good ol' days you worked or died. Freeloaders can get off their backside get a life and quit leeching. Socialism sucks.
Can you honestly say that everyone in the US who is currently uninsured are would be freeloaders? I would tend to disagree with that assertion, people- alot of the time- are uninsured because they simply cannot afford it. Did you know that a large percentage of the uninsured actually are employed but are not offered such benefits via their job so therefore are not insured? , there are thousands of recent college grads that will go uninsured for the next few years due to them not having established their careers yet. I'm not saying insure freeloaders but rather, insure those that have no other means of getting insured. This will relieve some of the pressure of our current system. Whether you know it or not, you will come out of pocket some way or another... why not do it for the good of those in need?

And yes...Socialism -as governmental policy- sucks royal
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Old 03-22-2007, 03:57 PM   #31
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Yes please mull over that freeloader thing for a little while. I think there are far less free loaders in this country then one may assume and if you consider are retired elders freeloaders, which probably make up a huge portion of those in need then we have serious moral issues to attend to before continuing with our political discussion. I assume also that we could implement a system that would cost us no more then what we are currently putting into taxes and if we actually did the numbers it would end up costing many of us alot less money. As well, maybe we could take a holiday from Iraq for lets say... a day or 2 and put those billions into providing health care for our country... we could probably afford to do for the world if that is the case. Especially since we are now liberating the entire world.
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Old 03-22-2007, 05:32 PM   #32
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That's why I said "some need it others just ride it". The riders and abusers apart from the greed of the current medical field is what causes it to be so expensive for the middle and lower class to afford. Did I mention the greed of lawyers doesn't help much either.
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Old 03-23-2007, 10:12 AM   #33
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That's why I said "some need it others just ride it". The riders and abusers apart from the greed of the current medical field is what causes it to be so expensive for the middle and lower class to afford. Did I mention the greed of lawyers doesn't help much either.
Well, we have to take the good with the bad and i have yet to run the numbers but i believe it could be a better solution financialy.
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Old 03-23-2007, 10:15 AM   #34
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I will say this... In our current state it almost makes more sense to not have insurance. I mean, I have great insurance and it still costs me a grip if I make a trip to the hospital but, if I was uninsured they would still treat me and then I would be available for bill adjustments, grants and other goverment assistance to pay the bills. As for now I just get a good raking over the coals.
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Old 03-23-2007, 10:26 AM   #35
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Quote:
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I will say this... In our current state it almost makes more sense to not have insurance. I mean, I have great insurance and it still costs me a grip if I make a trip to the hospital but, if I was uninsured they would still treat me and then I would be available for bill adjustments, grants and other goverment assistance to pay the bills. As for now I just get a good raking over the coals.
I worked as a contractor for 1.5 years with no insurance. In that time I took my kids to the dentist twice ($450 and $200) and the Pediatrician a couple of times ($150 each time) along with $100 prescriptions. Image what an MRI or ultrasound would cost. If you're in decent shape then I say self pay isn't bad. You need it if you have kids though.

Like Chris Rock says ... "Insurance should be called 'In case happens'".
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Old 03-23-2007, 10:33 AM   #36
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I worked as a contractor for 1.5 years with no insurance. In that time I took my kids to the dentist twice ($450 and $200) and the Pediatrician a couple of times ($150 each time) along with $100 prescriptions. Image what an MRI or ultrasound would cost. If you're in decent shape then I say self pay isn't bad. You need it if you have kids though.

Like Chris Rock says ... "Insurance should be called 'In case happens'".
Sure, but comparing emergency visits to lets say a more routine visit is a big difference. Oh, and dentist talks don't count just yet because I get screwed by them with insurance as well. :laughing6

So lets say from my experience you get into a motorcycle wreck and get carted off to the Emergency room in a ambulance. It is going to set you back a few grand with insurance. (This number will adjust to your insurance policy and the amount of injuries sustained. So we are generalizing based on my experiences.) Now, if you are uninsured you just fill out some paper work and mosey on your way while the hospital and doctors wait for someone else to pay your bills. Truely is another example of how the people trying to do the right things are getting screwed over.
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Old 03-23-2007, 10:40 AM   #37
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Now, if you are uninsured you just fill out some paper work and mosey on your way while the hospital and doctors wait for someone else to pay your bills. Truely is another example of how the people trying to do the right things are getting screwed over.
It'll still be on your credit report if you don't pay it.

My salary was 20% higher on contract (did my own withholding, no insurance, no PTO) to compensate for medical costs but I'm still more comfortable having insurance. Your company is probably paying 5 times what you are. When I left my last job the COBRA coverage was going to be $1200 a month!!
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Old 03-23-2007, 10:48 AM   #38
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It'll still be on your credit report if you don't pay it.

My salary was 20% higher on contract (did my own withholding, no insurance, no PTO) to compensate for medical costs but I'm still more comfortable having insurance. Your company is probably paying 5 times what you are. When I left my last job the COBRA coverage was going to be $1200 a month!!
I completely understand the after affects but, I am just comparing how unfair the current situation is for those trying to do the rigth thing. I mean... wether I owe $20,000 in medical or $2000 because i have insurance it will still go on my credit if I can't pay either one. Although, I personally could care less if either one went on my creit because it is medical but I like having the comfort zone that the insurance provides.
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Old 03-23-2007, 10:51 AM   #39
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I think it's strange that they charge the insurance company more than they charge you if you're paying out of pocket. It doesn't cost them much more to collect from the insurance company.
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Old 03-23-2007, 11:07 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Can you honestly say that everyone in the US who is currently uninsured are would be freeloaders? I would tend to disagree with that assertion, people- alot of the time- are uninsured because they simply cannot afford it. Did you know that a large percentage of the uninsured actually are employed but are not offered such benefits via their job so therefore are not insured? , there are thousands of recent college grads that will go uninsured for the next few years due to them not having established their careers yet. I'm not saying insure freeloaders but rather, insure those that have no other means of getting insured. This will relieve some of the pressure of our current system. Whether you know it or not, you will come out of pocket some way or another... why not do it for the good of those in need?

And yes...Socialism -as governmental policy- sucks royal

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