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Old 03-11-2013, 01:15 PM   #41
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I dig it for another little bar hopper, Im glad everybody is coming out with the stripped down, minimal style bikes and getting away from the tall and stretched out styling that was so popular 10 years back
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:22 PM   #42
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bar hopping on a bike. tried that with my nightster with almost fatal consequences.
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:28 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
Yeah, that lowered suspension must have taken them all of 10 minutes to come up with.

If by "new design" you mean "fat tire and candy paint"...

I can see that discussion in the boardroom "Lets take a fat tire and peanut tank, toss it on a Sporty and call it some number that alludes to a classic design from a period in which the Sportster wasn't made (but is really just the total range with a 2 gallon tank)

Ahem - Sportster with a different tank design.

Now THAT may be about the closest thing to a new design in the list, but it still uses the same engine, transmission and frame.

No, they were parts bin bikes.

New design means more than just some slight styling touches. How about they do a REAL new design involving something like the engine, transmission, frame and suspension? You know- like everyone ELSE does?

HD makes a good machine for what it is - an air-cooled twin which meets modern emissions standards, albeit while producing far less power than any of their competitors for any given engine displacement. Don't pretend they are in ANY way a design or technological leader.

Where did I say technological leader? I didn't.

However, there's more to them than just a wire rim and a tank change.
The XL1200C Custom for example has a wider front end, 5-spoke mags, a 130/90B16 front tire, new shape eyebrow, and wider flatter Custom tank.

That's hardly minimal upgrades. Can Yamaha say the same say for the V Star 650?

The frames, engines and transmissions were completely redesigned in '05.
Fuel injection was added across the board in '07.

By example, Yamaha is still running the same old carb and frame set up it's been using since what, 1999?

Parts bin bikes? Yeah, probably, but why not?
the Sportster has been in production in one form or another since '57.
I don't know of ANY other brand that has had a name plate that long.
Let alone one that still sells well enough that a Japanese competitor feels the need to copy it!
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:29 PM   #44
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Quote:
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How about some originality?
Yamaha USED TO BE the company that innovated design: the XS/Midnight Special line, the Seca line including the turbo Seca, the SRX singles, the 920 Vision, the 5 valve cylinder head and FZR line, and the original V Max just to name a few.
Don't forget the 550 Vision.
Water cooled mid sized V-twin...

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...59&FORM=IQFRBA


IN THE 1980's!!!

That was a cool little scoot. With the resurgence of mid-sized bikes I bet Yamaha would sell a jillion of them with just a little updating.
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:36 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Where did I say technological leader? I didn't.

However, there's more to them than just a wire rim and a tank change.
The XL1200C Custom for example has a wider front end, 5-spoke mags, a 130/90B16 front tire, new shape eyebrow, and wider flatter Custom tank.

That's hardly minimal upgrades. Can Yamaha say the same say for the V Star 650?

The frames, engines and transmissions were completely redesigned in '05.
Fuel injection was added across the board in '07.

By example, Yamaha is still running the same old carb and frame set up it's been using since what, 1999?

Parts bin bikes? Yeah, probably, but why not?
the Sportster has been in production in one form or another since '57.
I don't know of ANY other brand that has had a name plate that long.
Let alone one that still sells well enough that a Japanese competitor feels the need to copy it!
No, Yamaha is not running the same old carb and frame setup they have since 99. You need to look again. The Vstar 950 and 1300 are WATER cooled, fuel injected and sit on a totally different frame than the old 650/1100 series. In fact, the only thing they have in common is the name "V-Star".

My point with HD was you were claiming they were throwing out new "designs" when in reality it is the same old tired design with different parts hanging off it.

HD makes a good bike, they really do. However, they are all styling exercises, nothing more.
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:52 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maR1k View Post
BWBQ = But with better quality
Quantify that statement. You know what, you can't.

You WORK for Yamaha, so of course you're going to say that.

I on the other hand work on EVERYTHING, I don't have a dealership and have zero brand loyalty.
That said, I can guarantee I see far more V Star 650's and 1100's leaking from valve inspection covers and tensioner covers than Sportsters weeping from push rod tubes.

Want to talk about reliability and maintenance?
How about the 4000 mile valve adjustment interval the V Star 650/1100 has?
At least Yamamha finally CHANGED the 1300 interval to 16k, initially, the first 3 years, it was at 4000 miles.

HD doesn't require valve adjustments.

How about the fact that the exhaust has to be removed to replace the oil filter on the 650?

I've lost count of the number of V Star 1100's I've had to change the starter clutch on.
It's such a common issue that Yamaha issued a TSB and made a new kit.

Sorry, nothing against Yamaha, but I tend to call it as I see it.

I hope the 950 winds up being a good bike, I truly do, but I'd have been much more impressed if they'd have come out with something original vs copying a Sportster.
My 2 cents, YMMV.
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:57 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian1570 View Post
bar hopping on a bike. tried that with my nightster with almost fatal consequences.
You must not be doing it right then
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:58 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Quantify that statement. You know what, you can't.

You WORK for Yamaha, so of course you're going to say that.

I on the other hand work on EVERYTHING, I don't have a dealership and have zero brand loyalty.
That said, I can guarantee I see far more V Star 650's and 1100's leaking from valve inspection covers and tensioner covers than Sportsters weeping from push rod tubes.

Want to talk about reliability and maintenance?
How about the 4000 mile valve adjustment interval the V Star 650/1100 has?
At least Yamamha finally CHANGED the 1300 interval to 16k, initially, the first 3 years, it was at 4000 miles.

HD doesn't require valve adjustments.

How about the fact that the exhaust has to be removed to replace the oil filter on the 650?

I've lost count of the number of V Star 1100's I've had to change the starter clutch on.
It's such a common issue that Yamaha issued a TSB and made a new kit.

Sorry, nothing against Yamaha, but I tend to call it as I see it.

I hope the 950 winds up being a good bike, I truly do, but I'd have been much more impressed if they'd have come out with something original vs copying a Sportster.
My 2 cents, YMMV.
To be fair Patrick, HD has its share of mechanical bugaboos too. Every manufacturer does.

We all both love and hate our rides, just as we love and hate our spouses - all depends on whether they are acting the right way at a particular time.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:01 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
No, Yamaha is not running the same old carb and frame setup they have since 99. You need to look again. The Vstar 950 and 1300 are WATER cooled, fuel injected and sit on a totally different frame than the old 650/1100 series. In fact, the only thing they have in common is the name "V-Star".

My point with HD was you were claiming they were throwing out new "designs" when in reality it is the same old tired design with different parts hanging off it.

HD makes a good bike, they really do. However, they are all styling exercises, nothing more.
Ahem, look again, the V Star 650 is still in production, running the same design.
The 1100 ran the same till 2009, a 10 year span.
And the 950 is NOT water cooled, it's air cooled, but I am glad to see they finally increased the valve adjustment interval to more than 4k, and finally went to a spin on oil filter that the exhaust doesn't need to be removed in order to access it.:eek:

Same old Sportster design? The frame, engine and trans were completely redesigned/changed in '05.
The fuel system was completely changed in '07.
Not that tired of a design imo.

Look, I'm the first person to say that sometimes HD is yesterdays technology, available today, at tomorrows prices.
I'm just pointing out that apparently Yamaha thinks highly enough of it to copy it, that's all.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:03 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
To be fair Patrick, HD has its share of mechanical bugaboos too. Every manufacturer does.

We all both love and hate our rides, just as we love and hate our spouses - all depends on whether they are acting the right way at a particular time.
Yes, they do, but to make a blanket statement that Yamaha's cruiser line is built with better quality is pure unadulterated bullshit.
You know it, I know it, and hopefully the salesman who made the statement knows enough about the bikes he sells that he knows it.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:07 PM   #51
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You must not be doing it right then
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:12 PM   #52
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Yes i work for yamaha... doesnt mean im bias, i think most metric bikes have far better quality and power than most hd. Sad to say it but japan has had the jump on america when it comes to qualityfor 50 years. Yeah the old vstar 1100 had a problem but that bike is OBS now. And you should know at 16k it is a recomended valve check not an adjustment unless needed. We have customers with the 1900cc raider/stratoliner motor with over 100,000 miles on them with just interval oil changes. I like many brands of bikes but metric has better smoothness, power, and handling than hd.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:16 PM   #53
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Mark,
I'm not condemning the entire line. If you check another thread asking for input on cruisers I praised the Stratoliner/Roadliner.
However I disagree on the V Star 1100 valve adjustment.
From the Star site:
http://www.starmotorcycles.com/asset...6-13-36_96.pdf

Go to page 54, it states: Check and adjust valve clearance every 4000 miles.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:19 PM   #54
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"I'm just pointing out that apparently Yamaha thinks highly enough of it to copy it, that's all"

They didnt copy, just innovated
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:19 PM   #55
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Quote:
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You must not be doing it right then
well drinking and riding don't mix. then put yourself in a situation around cagers that have been drinking....yeah.


btw i didn't go down, but came VERY close to it.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:19 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maR1k View Post
Yes i work for yamaha... doesnt mean im bias, i think most metric bikes have far better quality and power than most hd.
Power? Yes. Quality? Not so much. HD makes a solid machine and has since the TwinCam became the standard. Even the Evo wasn't bad considering the tech level of the time.

The current TwinCam is good for about 100-125K trouble free miles. By that, I mean, change the oil and feed it gas. That's all you have to do. No Japanese engines can say that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maR1k View Post
Sad to say it but japan has had the jump on america when it comes to qualityfor 50 years.
Common misconception and untrue. In fact, when Japan was starting to import cars to the US (bikes too) their quality was, shall we say, suspect. You might notice far fewer of the old Japanese cars and bikes are still running than the old domestics - and I mean far fewer as a percentage of manufacture, not raw numbers. The US really only had about 10-15 bad years (1975-1985 mostly) -- the rest? On par with anything from anyone. Now, they lead the world in quality.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:22 PM   #57
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Quote:
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Mark,
I'm not condemning the entire line. If you check another thread asking for input on cruisers I praised the Stratoliner/Roadliner.
However I disagree on the V Star 1100 valve adjustment.
From the Star site:
http://www.starmotorcycles.com/asset...6-13-36_96.pdf

Go to page 54, it states: Check and adjust valve clearance every 4000 miles.
Yeah i agree that the 1100 was outdated, thankully we have the 1300 and they stopped production of it. It wasnt a bad bike just really basic.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:26 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
Power? Yes. Quality? Not so much. HD makes a solid machine and has since the TwinCam became the standard. Even the Evo wasn't bad considering the tech level of the time.

The current TwinCam is good for about 100-125K trouble free miles. By that, I mean, change the oil and feed it gas. That's all you have to do. No Japanese engines can say that.

Common misconception and untrue. In fact, when Japan was starting to import cars to the US (bikes too) their quality was, shall we say, suspect. You might notice far fewer of the old Japanese cars and bikes are still running than the old domestics - and I mean far fewer as a percentage of manufacture, not raw numbers. The US really only had about 10-15 bad years (1975-1985 mostly) -- the rest? On par with anything from anyone. Now, they lead the world in quality.
Im not sure about other brands but ive seen a handful of bikes with 100k miles on them and ive sold them the oil and filter since mile #1. Not all rhe motors are that strong but man the 1300 and 1900 are very solid
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:28 PM   #59
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Quote:
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Power? Yes. Quality? Not so much. HD makes a solid machine and has since the TwinCam became the standard. Even the Evo wasn't bad considering the tech level of the time.

The current TwinCam is good for about 100-125K trouble free miles. By that, I mean, change the oil and feed it gas. That's all you have to do. No Japanese engines can say that.

Common misconception and untrue. In fact, when Japan was starting to import cars to the US (bikes too) their quality was, shall we say, suspect. You might notice far fewer of the old Japanese cars and bikes are still running than the old domestics - and I mean far fewer as a percentage of manufacture, not raw numbers. The US really only had about 10-15 bad years (1975-1985 mostly) -- the rest? On par with anything from anyone. Now, they lead the world in quality.
no japanese engines can say they can go 100+k miles?(trouble free) are you serious? just about everything honda makes can do that. then you have the GL bikes that can do 200-400 with out too much fuss. there's even a few CBR's that have made it 200+.

i hate to burst your bubble, but the US does not lead the world in quality. bikes or cars. and this is coming from someone who owns nothing but american cars and trucks. all of which i truly enjoy, BUT i have no delusions about where they stand compared to other manufacturers around the globe.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:33 PM   #60
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Quote:
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no japanese engines can say they can go 100+k miles?(trouble free) are you serious? just about everything honda makes can do that. then you have the GL bikes that can do 200-400 with out too much fuss. there's even a few CBR's that have made it 200+.

i hate to burst your bubble, but the US does not lead the world in quality. bikes or cars. and this is coming from someone who owns nothing but american cars and trucks. all of which i truly enjoy, BUT i have no delusions about where they stand compared to other manufacturers around the globe.
Yes gl, fjr, conquorse, etc we have a guy named john with an fz6 with 80,000 that does track days too. I think it is safe to say most bikes all have their faults, good and bad. ill ride anything wkth a clutch
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