MotoHouston.com MotoHouston.com
Register Members List Member Map Media Calendar Garage Forum Home Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MotoHouston.com > Off Topic (everything else) > Off Topic
Forgot info?

Welcome to MotoHouston.com! You are currently viewing our forums as a guest which gives you limited access to the community. By joining our free community you will have access to great discounts from our sponsors, the ability to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content, free email, classifieds, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, join our community!

Register Today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.


FREE MH Decals by MAIL!

Advertisement

Reply
Share This Thread: 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
Old 03-05-2007, 01:43 PM   #121
cashtown
Lawyers Guns and Money
 
cashtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hunt, TX HWY 39
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,955

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
'05 Hayabusa '98 ZX-6E









Quote:
Originally Posted by paniro187
when i say i do it at times. I mean smoke cigs. 1 a week is avg for me. not 1 pack but 1 cig.

Wish I could quit.

Maybe if I could kick the desire I could quit the suffering and be on the path to enlightenment?
__________________
freak20brothers



Fat Freddy says, "Busas are for posing!"
cashtown is offline   Reply With Quote
Similar Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Christianity - A Pastors perspective lone_rider The Circus 21 06-18-2013 03:07 PM
Christianity is not a religion Neon Samurai The Circus 10 12-13-2012 09:49 AM
America was founded on Christianity DNGRMOUSE Off Topic 76 08-02-2009 11:48 AM
Advertisement
Old 03-05-2007, 03:17 PM   #122
AliceInChains02
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Crosby, TX (NE)
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,169

Experience: 3 years

Bike(s):
nada









Quote:
Originally Posted by cashtown
Great gobs of goose-t Batman!



Alice, check out this book:
150px Siddhartha Novel

it's a work of fiction -- so no real Buddhist teachings here, but it's a great story about enlightenment. I took lots of philosophy classes when I was in school and thought about a philo. minor, and this was one of my favorite books.

here's a link to a free download:

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/2500
cool, i'll check it out. the file from this link is in .PDB format which im not familiar with, what do you open the file with?
AliceInChains02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2007, 03:20 PM   #123
AliceInChains02
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Crosby, TX (NE)
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,169

Experience: 3 years

Bike(s):
nada









Quote:
Originally Posted by cashtown
Wish I could quit.

Maybe if I could kick the desire I could quit the suffering and be on the path to enlightenment?
I've been smoking cigarettes for over 6 years and a couple of months ago I just kind of stopped(well, cut down really). It's hard to understand how you can try and try for years and then without really putting too much thought into it just find the sheer determination somehow to deny yourself another pack. I've probably smoked 1 complete cig over the past week or so, and I still smoke 1 cig a day sometimes, but that's my max. Anyways, good luck quitting.
AliceInChains02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2007, 03:31 PM   #124
cashtown
Lawyers Guns and Money
 
cashtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hunt, TX HWY 39
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,955

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
'05 Hayabusa '98 ZX-6E









Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
cool, i'll check it out. the file from this link is in .PDB format which im not familiar with, what do you open the file with?

I don't know how to open it, I just trusted that it would work since the website said it would.

If it doesn't work and you still wanna read it, I have three copies I could prob live without one
__________________
freak20brothers



Fat Freddy says, "Busas are for posing!"
cashtown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2007, 03:53 PM   #125
AliceInChains02
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Crosby, TX (NE)
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,169

Experience: 3 years

Bike(s):
nada









Quote:
Originally Posted by cashtown
I don't know how to open it, I just trusted that it would work since the website said it would.

If it doesn't work and you still wanna read it, I have three copies I could prob live without one
i found free versions of it all over google and bookmarked one. i appreciate the offer though.
AliceInChains02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007, 01:52 AM   #126
Ramius
Rocket Surgeon
 
Ramius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: where I didda
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 6,232


Bike(s):
The Purple People Eater









Send a message via AIM to Ramius
For Paniro:

You know, Tony Evans had a sermon today that I believe would relate to your post on smoking perfectly. He is, of course, 1000x the speaker I could ever hope to be, and would be better at relaying the message. However, The gist of his sermon dealt with Christians he called Legalists.

In the sermon he spoke of the struggle some people have in being a Christian, that they try so hard not to break any rules they become burdoned by the very religion that is supposed to set them free. A way to tell them apart from other Christians is they speak often of what they "have to" or "ought to" do instead of what they "want" to do. For example, "I go to church every sunday because I have to" vs "I want to go to church every sunday".

He told a story about a lady named Sue (or whatever) who was married to a guy named Frank, Frank had a list of expectations for her, at 3pm she was to do this, at 4pm do that, at 7pm have this done and so on and so forth until her life was dictated for her, and she did not have the freedom to make her own choices. She loved him, but she was always nervous that she would not fulfill his expectations and was always looking at that list. One day Frank died, and she was so lost without him, he made all the decisions for her, that she couldn't function without him, so she had him embalmed and 'mounted' in her living room. Even though he was dead she would ask him if it was ok for her to do this, or if she could go there and see this person or that one..

Well one day she went on vacation to Europe and met Bill... and they fell in Love, and Bill cared for her without all of the demands that Frank would place on her, however she found her self doing those same things for Bill not because she had to, but because she wanted to. So they fell in love, and they got married, and they decided to live in America.

When they went to her home, and opened the front door.. Bill just about fell out. He saw Frank in the living room looking at him and she said "Oh Bill, this is Frank, I really do love you but I've lived so long with him that I can't live without him." Needless to say Bill was not happy, and she was forced to choose between the two.

Think about the Bible for a minute, in the Old Testiment you had laws you had to follow, and if you disobeyed them, you had to sacrifice sheep/cows/whatever to get right again. You did these things because you had to. In the New Testiment you have Jesus, No more sacrificing cows no more rain dances or any of the other things you had to do to get right. You have a direct and personal relationship with Him at this point. Anything you do right is because you want to do right for Him, Anything you do wrong is no longer damning because he does not expect perfection from you. The Laws that governed you have become the guidelines that lead you now.


We were never intended to be so burdoned by knowing and following all of the laws that we see it as a chore. we were meant to be so happy with the fact that we have a relationship with Jesus that we want to do right. Part of having that relationship is understanding that relationship. One key part of that is remembering that we are not, will not nor ever will be saved by our actions, not by following the ten commandments or by how we treat our neighbors, the only thing that has ever, is ever and will ever save our souls is Grace. When you are saved by Grace you are forgiven of your sins. That cigarette is nothing now because you have asked for forgiveness and by Grace alone you have received it. Next time you smoke, do not feel burdoned that you are letting him down, feel delighted that He is gracious enough to love you "in spite of" and not "because of". If you feel like it is coming in between you and the relationship you have with Jesus you could make an effort to resolve that but basically.. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it otherwise.

Of course I'm sure I totally slaughtered his message, but the good news is, it's a week long study that you can catch at 8:30 am on 105.7 if your interested =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
So you're saying that the bible's saying the same basic messages throughout all of it's text, you just have to read it in the correct context?

Another thing I'd like to take issue with is the idea of an "angry ". I don't think anger/fear/hate are useful emotions, and are fundamentally wrong. I don't think a 'perfect being' would feel these emotions, but these are just my feelings. Maybe these emotions are necessary, but I just always envisioned existence and everything about it being fundamentally good due to the mere fact of it's...existence(call it optimism-the furthest i'll let myself go towards superstition), and hence when you say that kills people, does other violent things, and is altogether vague and mysterious in how he gives his messages to people(a little o/t), it makes me wonder. What do you think could explain these behaviors? What's the traditional christian perspective on 's anger?

Another thing I wanted to ask you, David, is are you a young earth creatonist? That is, do you believe or think the earth is only thousands of years old? Just curious.
The Bible, in all honesty, is a History book. It tells of the events and lives of different people that lived in Biblical times. You have a whole number of them too many to mention really. It tells of the situations they were put in, and how they dealt with those situations.

One thing the Bible is not full of, is Saints. The person I was named after, King David, Was one of the biggest screw ups in the Bible, he was a man-, quick to anger and a whole string of other things but the most important quality he had, is he listened to . At least, most of the time. When he didn't, would 'check him' and you can read about that, but of course, when he did listen, things went a bit better for him.

We are supposed to read the Bible, and find a bit of ourselves from the people within, and find some similar situations from within, and see how they reacted and how they were treated for such actions so that we can learn how to deal with things in our lives.

As far as Gods anger.. thats a good one. My personal belief on anger or any emotion is.. if it were not useful we would not have them. Granted, too much of anything is never a good thing, especially in anger//vengance or what have you. I also believe with out them, as humans, we would never be motivated to do anything. If we did not have anger what would we have done after 9/11? If we did not love or how would we reproduce? If we were afraid how would we gain courage? Also, I believe that the bad things in life help us to appreciate the good things. This deals with bad emotions as well as bad 'instances'.

As far as having these things. Without emotion He would be, in a sense, a Robot or a Computer. He is a Being.. what kind of being, I dont know, for my comprehension He is omniciant, any 'being' has these basic emotions. While it could be argued that He could let these emotions get the best of Him and cause Him to make irrational decisions, I have yet to find an instance of that even when, as a human, you would think he Should. (Starving babies dying. kids getting molested etc etc).

My opinion is, knowing that He DOES have these emotions, makes it easier for me to relate to Him and build a relationship. I better feel He can understand what I find funny, sad or what makes me angry. If I had to explain frusteration to a computer I would get fed up very fast at its inability to see anything other than the plain black and white basic code.

To sum that up I would say that I (from a traditional Christians poitn of view) think of Gods Anger in the same manner that I think of my Fathers anger. I know it exists, I know he has it, and I know I dont want any part of it, but, I don't cower in fear every day from it because I know it's not going to show up for no reason at all. (at least, it's not supposed to)

As far as the age of Earth, in all total honesty, I really do not have an opinion because I really honestly dont care that much. I could actually cite Biblical and Scientific information that would point at several Million years of age as well as several thousand years of age. Some Biblical people say it's only a few thousand years old because 'thats how far back the Bible goes' While others say it could be several million because in the book of Genesis when created the earth.. one day for Him could have lasted a couple of million years for us.

On the scientific side you have scientists who say Carbon dating proves the earth is x million years old vs other scientists who say carbon dating is innacurate after a certain point.

As far as my personal opinion, I really honestly do not have a thought of my own and thats mostly because I have no real knowledge on the subject. The reason for that is, say I spent my life finding out how old the earth was.. then what? It's not like anything changes after that except when people say "The earth is x number of years old" instead of saying "Ohyeah, I think it's bleh" they will say "oh" :P
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius
Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!
Ramius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007, 01:53 AM   #127
Ramius
Rocket Surgeon
 
Ramius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: where I didda
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 6,232


Bike(s):
The Purple People Eater









Send a message via AIM to Ramius
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
I've been smoking cigarettes for over 6 years and a couple of months ago I just kind of stopped(well, cut down really). It's hard to understand how you can try and try for years and then without really putting too much thought into it just find the sheer determination somehow to deny yourself another pack. I've probably smoked 1 complete cig over the past week or so, and I still smoke 1 cig a day sometimes, but that's my max. Anyways, good luck quitting.

I can smoke a cigarette, and then not want anotehr one for six months at a time. I used to smoke all the time, now I can smoke, I have the ability to smoke and sometimes (trackdays) I will smoke but other than that.. I dont ever even think about it, wierd huh? :P
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius
Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!
Ramius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007, 03:01 AM   #128
AliceInChains02
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Crosby, TX (NE)
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,169

Experience: 3 years

Bike(s):
nada









Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius
For Paniro:

You know, Tony Evans had a sermon today that I believe would relate to your post on smoking perfectly. He is, of course, 1000x the speaker I could ever hope to be, and would be better at relaying the message. However, The gist of his sermon dealt with Christians he called Legalists.

In the sermon he spoke of the struggle some people have in being a Christian, that they try so hard not to break any rules they become burdoned by the very religion that is supposed to set them free. A way to tell them apart from other Christians is they speak often of what they "have to" or "ought to" do instead of what they "want" to do. For example, "I go to church every sunday because I have to" vs "I want to go to church every sunday".

He told a story about a lady named Sue (or whatever) who was married to a guy named Frank, Frank had a list of expectations for her, at 3pm she was to do this, at 4pm do that, at 7pm have this done and so on and so forth until her life was dictated for her, and she did not have the freedom to make her own choices. She loved him, but she was always nervous that she would not fulfill his expectations and was always looking at that list. One day Frank died, and she was so lost without him, he made all the decisions for her, that she couldn't function without him, so she had him embalmed and 'mounted' in her living room. Even though he was dead she would ask him if it was ok for her to do this, or if she could go there and see this person or that one..

Well one day she went on vacation to Europe and met Bill... and they fell in Love, and Bill cared for her without all of the demands that Frank would place on her, however she found her self doing those same things for Bill not because she had to, but because she wanted to. So they fell in love, and they got married, and they decided to live in America.

When they went to her home, and opened the front door.. Bill just about fell out. He saw Frank in the living room looking at him and she said "Oh Bill, this is Frank, I really do love you but I've lived so long with him that I can't live without him." Needless to say Bill was not happy, and she was forced to choose between the two.
This story reminds of A Clockwork Orange and the great question of the movie; choice. “Choice! The boy has no real choice, has he? Self interest, fear of physical pain drove him to that grotesque act of self abasement. Its insincerity was clearly to be seen. He ceases also to be a creature capable of moral choice.”
And this came from a priest, btw. It seems to me that "choice" also becomes an illusion when the prospect of eternal is brought into the equation.

Another quote from that movie "Does want goodness or the choice of goodness? Is a man who chooses to be bad perhaps in some way better than a man who has the good imposed upon him?"
Quote:
As far as Gods anger.. thats a good one. My personal belief on anger or any emotion is.. if it were not useful we would not have them. Granted, too much of anything is never a good thing, especially in anger//vengance or what have you. I also believe with out them, as humans, we would never be motivated to do anything. If we did not have anger what would we have done after 9/11? If we did not love or how would we reproduce? If we were afraid how would we gain courage? Also, I believe that the bad things in life help us to appreciate the good things. This deals with bad emotions as well as bad 'instances'.
I can see how anger might, in a sense, be a good thing. After all, I just said that existence, to me, shows goodness, and I guess the existence of anger should show that it has some merit based on that logic, but I still think that at the level of perfection that is at, not only would anger be ascended, but all emotions, but that's just another 'feeling' that is probably not worth getting into on here.

If we didn't have anger, 9/11 would have never happened.
Perhaps we could reproduce due to the understanding of it's necessity to the continuation of life, maybe /love is just a manifestation of this subconscious understanding?
I agree that 'bad' contrasts 'good' and without one the other can not exist, but I still don't know if that means they are ultimately pure concepts, and maybe there's a way of getting above this dichotomistic structure that seems prevalant in the world, maybe that's 'oneness'.

Quote:
As far as having these things. Without emotion He would be, in a sense, a Robot or a Computer. He is a Being.. what kind of being, I dont know, for my comprehension He is omniciant, any 'being' has these basic emotions. While it could be argued that He could let these emotions get the best of Him and cause Him to make irrational decisions, I have yet to find an instance of that even when, as a human, you would think he Should. (Starving babies dying. kids getting molested etc etc).
How do you mean that he doesn't let the emotions get the best of him? He gets angry and wipes out entire cities, the entire earth even. That includes all the innocent children, puppy dogs, etc. That seems irrational to me.
Quote:
My opinion is, knowing that He DOES have these emotions, makes it easier for me to relate to Him and build a relationship. I better feel He can understand what I find funny, sad or what makes me angry. If I had to explain frusteration to a computer I would get fed up very fast at its inability to see anything other than the plain black and white basic code.
Should we to relate to ? Is that a good thing? Might it be better to think of as some sort of ultimate truth to strive for? Maybe everything is really black and white code, and we only pump magic into it for lack of understanding?
Quote:
As far as the age of Earth, in all total honesty, I really do not have an opinion because I really honestly dont care that much. I could actually cite Biblical and Scientific information that would point at several Million years of age as well as several thousand years of age. Some Biblical people say it's only a few thousand years old because 'thats how far back the Bible goes' While others say it could be several million because in the book of Genesis when created the earth.. one day for Him could have lasted a couple of million years for us.

On the scientific side you have scientists who say Carbon dating proves the earth is x million years old vs other scientists who say carbon dating is innacurate after a certain point.

As far as my personal opinion, I really honestly do not have a thought of my own and thats mostly because I have no real knowledge on the subject. The reason for that is, say I spent my life finding out how old the earth was.. then what? It's not like anything changes after that except when people say "The earth is x number of years old" instead of saying "Ohyeah, I think it's bleh" they will say "oh" :P
I agree that it's useless to discover the truth of the earth's ages if there are already explanations being derived from the vagueness of the bible that could discount it, and so I understand your situation.
AliceInChains02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007, 03:04 AM   #129
AliceInChains02
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Crosby, TX (NE)
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,169

Experience: 3 years

Bike(s):
nada









Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius
I can smoke a cigarette, and then not want anotehr one for six months at a time. I used to smoke all the time, now I can smoke, I have the ability to smoke and sometimes (trackdays) I will smoke but other than that.. I dont ever even think about it, wierd huh? :P
Will power rules
AliceInChains02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007, 03:39 AM   #130
AliceInChains02
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Crosby, TX (NE)
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,169

Experience: 3 years

Bike(s):
nada









and to add a little Buddhist flavor, here's an excerpt from some essay i was reading. I'd like to hear some opinions on it(that means you, David )
it's just a small, general concept, but profound (to me)nonetheless. i first ran across this sort of concept in Nietzsche, but the way it's phrased here made me perceive the idea sort of differently. I guess it made me see the overwhelmingness of eternity in heaven, as well as . but perhaps the 'boredom', or mental agony, would be what's overwhelming in heaven, rather than the physical agony, or maybe they're both the same(physical and mental agony, that is) it's hard for me to wrap my mind around the concept of Forever, what that would be like. I can't even Imagine how it must feel to Know that you will be forever.

"Our peculiar position of being mortal and being aware of it is a major source of anxiety, but is also what makes our lives, and the choices we make, meaningful. Time becomes important only when there is only so much of it. Doing the right thing and loving someone only have meaning when you don't have an eternity to work with."
AliceInChains02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007, 04:39 AM   #131
Ramius
Rocket Surgeon
 
Ramius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: where I didda
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 6,232


Bike(s):
The Purple People Eater









Send a message via AIM to Ramius
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
and to add a little Buddhist flavor, here's an excerpt from some essay i was reading. I'd like to hear some opinions on it(that means you, David )
it's just a small, general concept, but profound (to me)nonetheless. i first ran across this sort of concept in Nietzsche, but the way it's phrased here made me perceive the idea sort of differently. I guess it made me see the overwhelmingness of eternity in heaven, as well as . but perhaps the 'boredom', or mental agony, would be what's overwhelming in heaven, rather than the physical agony, or maybe they're both the same(physical and mental agony, that is) it's hard for me to wrap my mind around the concept of Forever, what that would be like. I can't even Imagine how it must feel to Know that you will be forever.

"Our peculiar position of being mortal and being aware of it is a major source of anxiety, but is also what makes our lives, and the choices we make, meaningful. Time becomes important only when there is only so much of it. Doing the right thing and loving someone only have meaning when you don't have an eternity to work with."
I think the hardest thing to grasp about eternity is it has no bounds, no beginning nor end and for us, as humans, that is impossible to truly comprehend. Every concept we are around has a beginning and an end. Vague as it may be, we know the earth was created one day, and when the sun burns up, the earth will end (if we dont crack it up first). However, Time and Space. These are two concepts that I nearly go into a coma trying to wrap my mind around.

Some people say that the universe is like a ballon being blown up, it is ever expanding, if that is true, whats on the other side of the baloon? I remember as a child that I went through a phase where I would tiptoe everywhere because the night before I dreamed about the universe, and what happened in that dream was I was flying over the earth, and I saw the cities and the trees and the people living out their lives then suddenly I was "pulled back" at an extremely fast rate, I saw the earth.. the sun .. the other plants, the whole solar system, the galaxy then things got hazy grey, and I saw that I was merely an atom on the lip of some woman walking down some street.. after the briefest pause I was propelled back into that atom, back into the galaxy the solar system the planets into my earth as I knew it, only this time I ran right down into a yard with a dog, who was lapping up water by his water bowl, I ran into his water bowl (ever shrinking) until I went into one of the atoms that make up a water molecule and kept shrinking until I saw another galaxy with solar system and sun and stars and a planet.. but before I could go into this planet I woke up.

I was so afraid to walk or move or do anything because I was afraid I would smoosh a whole galaxy of people with every step.

Wierd huh?

Ohyeah

We weren't even talking about that

Time, as with anything in life, becomes more important with the less amount you have. If you knew you only had 24 hours to live, you would accomplish more in those 24 hours than most people would in a year. Think of the things you would say to people, or the things you would do?

As far as being bored in Heavan because you are there forever, I've thought about that too. I also think about how I will deal with some of the people I see walking around that I might bump into up there because down here.. I think they really are idiots and I wonder how that would translate into an angellic form. Sometimes I expect to see people walking around with their wings upside down or backwards.

I really wouldn't know what to expect as far as boredom except that I am fairly certain it will not exist. Heres a tricky one to ponder, I don't think that you sleep in Heavan either, as there is no nighttime. so not only are you there forever, you are THERE forever. ooOOoo I get sleepy just thinking about that one!

all in all

Time becomes important only when there is only so much of it. Doing the right thing and loving someone only have meaning when you don't have an eternity to work with

I'd say that is absolutly 100% correct.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius
Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!
Ramius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007, 05:07 AM   #132
Ramius
Rocket Surgeon
 
Ramius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: where I didda
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 6,232


Bike(s):
The Purple People Eater









Send a message via AIM to Ramius
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
This story reminds of A Clockwork Orange and the great question of the movie; choice. “Choice! The boy has no real choice, has he? Self interest, fear of physical pain drove him to that grotesque act of self abasement. Its insincerity was clearly to be seen. He ceases also to be a creature capable of moral choice.”
And this came from a priest, btw. It seems to me that "choice" also becomes an illusion when the prospect of eternal is brought into the equation.
Sounds like a crazy movie, I'm going to rent it this weekend

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02

Another quote from that movie "Does want goodness or the choice of goodness? Is a man who chooses to be bad perhaps in some way better than a man who has the good imposed upon him?"
wants the Choice of Goodness, thats why we were given a free will. If He merely wanted 'good people' He would not have given us freedom of choice. As far as goes, once you have been saved, you are exempted from ... I can see how some may misunderstand that but it is the truth, once you are saved no longer exists for you soooo you can't really 'do good' out of fear of going there.

It seems to be related to the whole legalism concept Tony Evans was talking about, I'm going to listen to the rest of his sermon this week and see what else I can learn on the subject because the truth is, sometimes I've fallen into the legalistic mode of thinking myself and it shouldn't be that way. You should never do something for Christ that you feel you have to. You should act because you want to. Even though the physical results are the same, the acting force behind it is totally different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
How do you mean that he doesn't let the emotions get the best of him? He gets angry and wipes out entire cities, the entire earth even. That includes all the innocent children, puppy dogs, etc. That seems irrational to me.
This is actually something that will take a lengthy response that i do not have time for tonight... but I will say for the moment, that, Jesus coming to earth was so those types of things would never happen again. In the old testiment if you screwed up balefire came down from heavan, if the town screwed up you turned to salt, and when the world screwed up everyone got flooded. However, Jesus was sent as the alternative, Instead of seeing immediate reprocussions you actually now, have your whole life to 'get right'.

I'll expand on that more later but thats the summary of what it is all about. There are actually some pretty funny verses where would Argue with people, one of my favorites was an exchange between and Abraham over the city of Sodom. Some of the questions you ask are exactly as was questioned to His face before. Now..take that in for a minute. For a second imagine that himself appeared in your living room, and you KNEW it was Him.. absolutly no doubt this was THE _BEING_ that made eeeeverything.. Would you be able to question Him about what He does? I do not know, maybe you can, maybe you could not.. Well, in the Bible someone did, and heres what happened.

The setting is outside the City of Sodom, in the Old Testiment, and Abraham are having a discussion about the City, which has said He will destroy. Abraham, like you, said to "But if you are supposed to be so good, what if there are 50 innocent people there... would you still destroy the city?" To me... I f ind this passage pretty hilarious in all honesty, and proves to me that does have a sense of humor. Imagine your dog could talk, and you told him to move out of the way so you could squish an ant bed.. and he called you on it.. would you say "Move lemmie squash 'em" or would you listen to his reason? :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis 18:23-32
23 And Abraham came near and said, “Would You also destroy the righteous with the wicked? 24 Suppose there were fifty righteous within the city; would You also destroy the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous that were in it? 25 Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
26 So the LORD said, “If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.”
27 Then Abraham answered and said, “Indeed now, I who am but dust and ashes have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord: 28 Suppose there were five less than the fifty righteous; would You destroy all of the city for lack of five?”
So He said, “If I find there forty-five, I will not destroy it.”
29 And he spoke to Him yet again and said, “Suppose there should be forty found there?”
So He said, “I will not do it for the sake of forty.”
30 Then he said, “Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Suppose thirty should be found there?”
So He said, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”
31 And he said, “Indeed now, I have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord: Suppose twenty should be found there?”
So He said, “I will not destroy it for the sake of twenty.”
32 Then he said, “Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak but once more: Suppose ten should be found there?”
And He said, “I will not destroy it for the sake of ten.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Should we to relate to ? Is that a good thing? Might it be better to think of as some sort of ultimate truth to strive for? Maybe everything is really black and white code, and we only pump magic into it for lack of understanding?
I dont think it's black and white, nor should it be... is doing 76 in a 55 always wrong? What if you were rushing a bleeding victem to the hospital, are you still bound by the laws of the highway? If not then how do y ou judge who's bleeding enough to travel at what speed? To me there are too many grey areas to simply be right or wrong.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius
Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!

Last edited by Ramius; 03-06-2007 at 05:10 AM.
Ramius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007, 11:51 AM   #133
AliceInChains02
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Crosby, TX (NE)
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,169

Experience: 3 years

Bike(s):
nada









Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius
Sounds like a crazy movie, I'm going to rent it this weekend
It is very crazy, probably one of the most unique, original movies ever imo, but it's far from a family movie, and most people, especially christians, will find it distasteful. Just look at the tag, and you'll understand. "Rape, ultraviolence, and beethoven."


Quote:
wants the Choice of Goodness, thats why we were given a free will. If He merely wanted 'good people' He would not have given us freedom of choice. As far as goes, once you have been saved, you are exempted from ... I can see how some may misunderstand that but it is the truth, once you are saved no longer exists for you soooo you can't really 'do good' out of fear of going there.
I was raised thinking that not only do you have to be saved, but you have to actively ask for forgiveness for every sin. Is this not true?
Would you consider it a "choice" if I asked you to get me a coffee, but told you if you didn't I'd light you ablaze? Or asked you to believe in me? That seems more like a subtle sort of command to me.



Quote:
This is actually something that will take a lengthy response that i do not have time for tonight... but I will say for the moment, that, Jesus coming to earth was so those types of things would never happen again. In the old testiment if you screwed up balefire came down from heavan, if the town screwed up you turned to salt, and when the world screwed up everyone got flooded. However, Jesus was sent as the alternative, Instead of seeing immediate reprocussions you actually now, have your whole life to 'get right'.
So does Jesus represent the rational side of ? and guy in the sky represents the "i'll cut your off" ?(sorry, facetious, but not malicious).


Quote:
The setting is outside the City of Sodom, in the Old Testiment, and Abraham are having a discussion about the City, which has said He will destroy. Abraham, like you, said to "But if you are supposed to be so good, what if there are 50 innocent people there... would you still destroy the city?" To me... I f ind this passage pretty hilarious in all honesty, and proves to me that does have a sense of humor. Imagine your dog could talk, and you told him to move out of the way so you could squish an ant bed.. and he called you on it.. would you say "Move lemmie squash 'em" or would you listen to his reason? :P
gave man reason and understanding, why not explain himself? What's the purpose of being so vague? I prefer honesty and clarity, so it's frustrating for me to try to figure out what some deity meant when I see no reason for him not just explaining it to us.



Quote:
I dont think it's black and white, nor should it be... is doing 76 in a 55 always wrong? What if you were rushing a bleeding victem to the hospital, are you still bound by the laws of the highway? If not then how do y ou judge who's bleeding enough to travel at what speed? To me there are too many grey areas to simply be right or wrong.
Broken down into fine enough details, into a general enough sense, on some sort of foundation(an ultimate truth perhaps), I think it may be possible to see all actions/happenings in an objective form. This would leave no grey area. Of course when looking at things in a direct, superficial sense it may appear to be complex, but I think true understanding could show it's structure is quite simple.
AliceInChains02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007, 04:00 PM   #134
Moody
Holy Smokes!
 
Moody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Feedback Rating: (4)
Posts: 14,685


Bike(s):
281









Any of you seen "What the Bleep?"?

This a strange direction for this thread but bare with me it will have relevance.
__________________

Open your eyes and reclaim the freedom you were born with. - Moody
Moody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007, 04:04 PM   #135
Moody
Holy Smokes!
 
Moody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Feedback Rating: (4)
Posts: 14,685


Bike(s):
281









Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
This story reminds of A Clockwork Orange and the great question of the movie; choice. “Choice! The boy has no real choice, has he? Self interest, fear of physical pain drove him to that grotesque act of self abasement. Its insincerity was clearly to be seen. He ceases also to be a creature capable of moral choice.”
And this came from a priest, btw. It seems to me that "choice" also becomes an illusion when the prospect of eternal is brought into the equation.

Another quote from that movie "Does want goodness or the choice of goodness? Is a man who chooses to be bad perhaps in some way better than a man who has the good imposed upon him?"

I can see how anger might, in a sense, be a good thing. After all, I just said that existence, to me, shows goodness, and I guess the existence of anger should show that it has some merit based on that logic, but I still think that at the level of perfection that is at, not only would anger be ascended, but all emotions, but that's just another 'feeling' that is probably not worth getting into on here.

If we didn't have anger, 9/11 would have never happened.
Perhaps we could reproduce due to the understanding of it's necessity to the continuation of life, maybe /love is just a manifestation of this subconscious understanding?
I agree that 'bad' contrasts 'good' and without one the other can not exist, but I still don't know if that means they are ultimately pure concepts, and maybe there's a way of getting above this dichotomistic structure that seems prevalant in the world, maybe that's 'oneness'.

How do you mean that he doesn't let the emotions get the best of him? He gets angry and wipes out entire cities, the entire earth even. That includes all the innocent children, puppy dogs, etc. That seems irrational to me.


Should we to relate to ? Is that a good thing? Might it be better to think of as some sort of ultimate truth to strive for? Maybe everything is really black and white code, and we only pump magic into it for lack of understanding?

I agree that it's useless to discover the truth of the earth's ages if there are already explanations being derived from the vagueness of the bible that could discount it, and so I understand your situation.
I think the age of the earth has a huge part to do with anything. Although, ones biblical scholars will make their own interpretations that will bend towards whatever they want to evangelize.
__________________

Open your eyes and reclaim the freedom you were born with. - Moody
Moody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007, 04:10 PM   #136
Moody
Holy Smokes!
 
Moody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Feedback Rating: (4)
Posts: 14,685


Bike(s):
281









The Buddha preached about the middle path because good and evil are polar perceptions and lead to suffering. To obtain enlightenment one must perceive the ultimate thought and the ultimate thought comes from the ultimate mind.
__________________

Open your eyes and reclaim the freedom you were born with. - Moody
Moody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007, 04:23 PM   #137
CaJuNsOuLjA
Resident Glasnost
 
CaJuNsOuLjA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NW: 249 & Beltway
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 11,106

Experience: 3 years

Bike(s):
*SOLD*...(Pending purchase): 2006 CRF 450






Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
I think the age of the earth has a huge part to do with anything. Although, ones biblical scholars will make their own interpretations that will bend towards whatever they want to evangelize.
Not always the case, there are those of us that lean more toward the empirachally backed idea that the earth is older than 6 thousand years. Not exactly sure just how much older, but the possibility of it being older indeed.
__________________
indifferent0028"They've created a nation of spenders, speculators, and consumers, and they've destroyed the savers, producers, and the investing class that built this country. We're moving from a market-based economy to essentially a planned economy. We're abandoning capitalism and embracing socialism. That's a recipe for disaster." - Peter Schiff
CaJuNsOuLjA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007, 04:41 PM   #138
AliceInChains02
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Crosby, TX (NE)
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,169

Experience: 3 years

Bike(s):
nada









Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
The Buddha preached about the middle path because good and evil are polar perceptions and lead to suffering. To obtain enlightenment one must perceive the ultimate thought and the ultimate thought comes from the ultimate mind.
That's why I love Buddhism. There are concepts that have been present with me for a long time and when I read some of the stuff Buddhism says, it almost makes me think I read this stuff in a past life. I haven't heard about the ultimate thought/ultimate mind thing before, care to elaborate?
AliceInChains02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007, 04:44 PM   #139
AliceInChains02
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Crosby, TX (NE)
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,169

Experience: 3 years

Bike(s):
nada









Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
Any of you seen "What the Bleep?"?

This a strange direction for this thread but bare with me it will have relevance.
nope
AliceInChains02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007, 05:06 PM   #140
Moody
Holy Smokes!
 
Moody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Feedback Rating: (4)
Posts: 14,685


Bike(s):
281









Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Not always the case, there are those of us that lean more toward the empirachally backed idea that the earth is older than 6 thousand years. Not exactly sure just how much older, but the possibility of it being older indeed.
I think you just restated what I said.

I am guessing you meant empirically?
__________________

Open your eyes and reclaim the freedom you were born with. - Moody
Moody is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Advertisement


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:59 AM.


MotoHouston.com is not responsible for the content posted by users.
Privacy Policy