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Old 03-12-2007, 02:06 PM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Please show me where I took a shot at you(or is it Christianity?).
Trust me, it doesn't hurt me that you take a shot at Christianity...that is between yourself and . But as far as me:

The post which actually coaxed me into the discussion:

Post#156
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
for someone who so prided themselves on their objectivity in past threads...it's too bad your objectivity can find no ground on this argument that's largely based on morality and human behavior, but I still think you'd be able to participate in Bible related questions, or do you not know much about it?
Another shot:

Post #182
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Maybe you don't comprehend the point you are making.

BTW,
I don't take anything on here personally, ever....I just throws the bones back that are thrown my way....:icon_bigg
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Old 03-12-2007, 02:53 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Trust me, it doesn't hurt me that you take a shot at Christianity...that is between yourself and . But as far as me:

The post which actually coaxed me into the discussion:

Post#156


Another shot:

Post #182



BTW,
I don't take anything on here personally, ever....I just throws the bones back that are thrown my way....:icon_bigg
The first post was meant to 'coax' you into the conversation
The 2nd 'shot' was in response to YOU TELLING ME that I don't understand the point you're making, and I didn't say it with any anger behind it.
I'd say these shots are mild compared to your later remarks.
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:25 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
The first post was meant to 'coax' you into the conversation
Knew it...I was fighting it but it's a character flaw, can't back down :dontknow:


Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
The 2nd 'shot' was in response to YOU TELLING ME that I don't understand the point you're making, and I didn't say it with any anger behind it.
Nope, I said that you didn't comprehend it, but look at the rest of the sentence....

Post #175
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLJA
Never said you were dumb, you just didn't comprehend the point I was making which could very well be by no fault of your own but rather my not communicating that point more clearly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
I'd say these shots are mild compared to your later remarks.
Perhaps, but shots no less...so back to the intelligent discussion....
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Old 03-12-2007, 11:39 PM   #244
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1 When you say children are forced into Christianity thus becoming brain washed, I tend to disagree. A child has 0 exposure to the outside world save what you, as a parent, allow them to see. You expose them to different things in an attempt to educate them and raise them in the fashion that you feel is best.

As the child grows older you begin to take them to church (if you choose) and enroll them into after school activities (sports/cheerleading/karate etc) to expose them to different things in life. As they experience these things they are able to decide "this is for me" or "this is not for me".

This goes for anything from basketball, baseball, drill team or cheerleading or even christian/non christian. I myself am more non-denominational than anything however, I lean towards traditional Southern Baptism myself. My wife however, is Catholic. Are we going to force our kids to be one or the other? No, but we give them exposure to both, and remind them that the focus is on Jesus, and let them choose when they are older.

I figure they, like I, will not feel we were forced into religion, but rather we were introduced to it.

2. When you say you prayed as a child, what did you pray for and why do you feel you were let down?

3. When you say people do dumb things in the name of the Holy Spirit I couldn't agree with you more. Too often peoples own Pride blinds them from the truth. When you pray, and say "Jesus, I really need this job" or "Jesus, I really need you to get me this house" or "Jesus I want this or that" you are making the vital mistake of dictating your blessing. What if Jesus did not want you to have those things? Then are you going to be angry and bitter and not believe because He did not do what you wanted Him to?

I work with a guy right now, who says he prays every night for Jesus to make him my boss. While it's fine to request things, it is not fine to expect that you will receive them just because you asked.

What one should do instead is ask for Gods Will. "Jesus, I would like this job if it is your will that I be there." What you are doing there is you are saying "Lord... yeah, I want this.. but I want what you want for me more" He may have something bigger in store for you than you could imagine.. but because you couldn't let go of your small want.. He can't give you His bigger purpose. You have to be receptive to Him.

4. Billy Graham and other evangelical preachers do not mislead people, when you advertise for a night club do you stand on the street corner and yell about the stains on the wall? No, you find out about that once you are in there. The only difference is, with Christianity, the only people who complain about the 'bad things' are the people who do not believe. The people who DO believe, do not see them as bad things at all. How Divine it is that I may suffer for His name.

5 What wants is for us to Love Him, we were created for the simple purpose that we would see the world, but choose Him. What do you do for people you love? You sacrifice a part of yourself for them. You get married to someone because you see them as a beautiful person, and you want to be with them forever and ever and then you get married and.... she hands you a weedeater. hey.... that kinda sucks. But, you love them so much what do you do? You go out there and you sweat, and you weedeat, and you ask what else you can do to make them happy, and at the end of the day you go to sleep and wake up the next morning to do it all over again. True Love, Sacrificial Love, the type of Love where you and your happiness is on a lower level of importance than their happiness is what Wants. What you will find, is that making Him Happy, makes you Happy. So in a way, by seeking to make Him Happy, your level of self satisfaction and happiness rises exponentially with His to a point where you feel better together, than you ever did.. alone.

Thats what is all about, you give a little to Him in faith, that He may pay you back tenfold. How do you get the fruit of the apple tree except by planting a seed of an apple? Therefore what makes you think you can reap the crop of happiness without planting seeds of happiness? You can't just say " make my life happy" You gotta ask Him for a bucket of seeds and a shovel, and get yourself out there to plant them. Work hard all day, so that later, you may reap His harvest.

I have a card in my wallet, it's old and faded, but I received it a few years ago from a man that came to test drive one of my vehicles. It says "For Prayer, call Rev. Ron Phillips" he hands them out freely so I will give his number here, it's 832 723 7347. I've called him on occasion though I have never given my name, and I doubt he knows who I am and I am not sure of his denomination. I have learned a lot from Him though when I have questions that I just cannot seem to get an answer for. One day I called Him on the subject of giving, and I wont get too far into the specifics but he told me that "You cannot outgive , you will find when you give to Him, in good Faith, He tends to make your cup overflow in ways you couldn't possibly imagine."

I believe Him, and I have casted my fleece before and have never been found wanting.

What do I mean by casting my fleece? Well, by the end of tonights lesson, you will see.

(Lesson coming in a bit)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius
Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!

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Old 03-13-2007, 09:20 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Ramius
1 When you say children are forced into Christianity thus becoming brain washed, I tend to disagree. A child has 0 exposure to the outside world save what you, as a parent, allow them to see. You expose them to different things in an attempt to educate them and raise them in the fashion that you feel is best.

As the child grows older you begin to take them to church (if you choose) and enroll them into after school activities (sports/cheerleading/karate etc) to expose them to different things in life. As they experience these things they are able to decide "this is for me" or "this is not for me".

This goes for anything from basketball, baseball, drill team or cheerleading or even christian/non christian. I myself am more non-denominational than anything however, I lean towards traditional Southern Baptism myself. My wife however, is Catholic. Are we going to force our kids to be one or the other? No, but we give them exposure to both, and remind them that the focus is on Jesus, and let them choose when they are older.

I figure they, like I, will not feel we were forced into religion, but rather we were introduced to it.
I'm not saying they're brainwashed by going to church, but like you said, they only see what you let them see, and that's why parents are careful to make sure they don't watch bad tv shows, etc. Why not let them watch this stuff? Because they soak up everything without discriminating much. I'm just saying the same thing goes for Christianity, and I also said I understand why a xian parent would want to have their child 'soak up' the religion.
Quote:
2. When you say you prayed as a child, what did you pray for and why do you feel you were let down?
I prayed to believe in . That's all, pretty much. I felt let down because I never felt I sincerely believed, but I'm prone to anxious-thinking. Maybe I would've believed if I hadn't been so uptight, but I'm glad I decided I do not believe although the idea of was still torturous to me for a time.

Quote:
3. When you say people do dumb things in the name of the Holy Spirit I couldn't agree with you more. Too often peoples own Pride blinds them from the truth. When you pray, and say "Jesus, I really need this job" or "Jesus, I really need you to get me this house" or "Jesus I want this or that" you are making the vital mistake of dictating your blessing. What if Jesus did not want you to have those things? Then are you going to be angry and bitter and not believe because He did not do what you wanted Him to?


I work with a guy right now, who says he prays every night for Jesus to make him my boss. While it's fine to request things, it is not fine to expect that you will receive them just because you asked.

What one should do instead is ask for Gods Will. "Jesus, I would like this job if it is your will that I be there." What you are doing there is you are saying "Lord... yeah, I want this.. but I want what you want for me more" He may have something bigger in store for you than you could imagine.. but because you couldn't let go of your small want.. He can't give you His bigger purpose. You have to be receptive to Him.
I agree that people shouldn't pray for such 'earthly things' to someone who tells you not to get hung up on this world, since it's only a moment in time compared to the eternity that awaits, but I guess some people don't really get the idea of Christianity.

Quote:
4. Billy Graham and other evangelical preachers do not mislead people, when you advertise for a night club do you stand on the street corner and yell about the stains on the wall? No, you find out about that once you are in there. The only difference is, with Christianity, the only people who complain about the 'bad things' are the people who do not believe. The people who DO believe, do not see them as bad things at all. How Divine it is that I may suffer for His name.
Yeah, well why complain about something() that doesn't affect you, right? You don't see us complaining about all of the 'crimes against humanity' in various 3rd world countries, because they're far away from our day to day lives, but it doesn't mean it's right. And I bet if told you that the rules changed and you were -Bound for something you have no control over, it would upset you.

Quote:
5 What wants is for us to Love Him, we were created for the simple purpose that we would see the world, but choose Him. What do you do for people you love? You sacrifice a part of yourself for them. You get married to someone because you see them as a beautiful person, and you want to be with them forever and ever and then you get married and.... she hands you a weedeater. hey.... that kinda sucks. But, you love them so much what do you do? You go out there and you sweat, and you weedeat, and you ask what else you can do to make them happy, and at the end of the day you go to sleep and wake up the next morning to do it all over again. True Love, Sacrificial Love, the type of Love where you and your happiness is on a lower level of importance than their happiness is what Wants. What you will find, is that making Him Happy, makes you Happy. So in a way, by seeking to make Him Happy, your level of self satisfaction and happiness rises exponentially with His to a point where you feel better together, than you ever did.. alone.

Thats what is all about, you give a little to Him in faith, that He may pay you back tenfold. How do you get the fruit of the apple tree except by planting a seed of an apple? Therefore what makes you think you can reap the crop of happiness without planting seeds of happiness? You can't just say " make my life happy" You gotta ask Him for a bucket of seeds and a shovel, and get yourself out there to plant them. Work hard all day, so that later, you may reap His harvest.


I have a card in my wallet, it's old and faded, but I received it a few years ago from a man that came to test drive one of my vehicles. It says "For Prayer, call Rev. Ron Phillips" he hands them out freely so I will give his number here, it's 832 723 7347. I've called him on occasion though I have never given my name, and I doubt he knows who I am and I am not sure of his denomination. I have learned a lot from Him though when I have questions that I just cannot seem to get an answer for. One day I called Him on the subject of giving, and I wont get too far into the specifics but he told me that "You cannot outgive , you will find when you give to Him, in good Faith, He tends to make your cup overflow in ways you couldn't possibly imagine."

I believe Him, and I have casted my fleece before and have never been found wanting.

What do I mean by casting my fleece? Well, by the end of tonights lesson, you will see.

(Lesson coming in a bit)
Where's the lesson? :P

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Old 03-13-2007, 09:45 AM   #246
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Yeah, well why complain about something...that doesn't affect you, right? You don't see us complaining about all of the 'crimes against humanity' in various 3rd world countries, because they're far away from our day to day lives, but it doesn't mean it's right.
This is so true, particularly of our society today. Everyone was saying, not a year ago, that "atleast we were fighting the war over there (Iraq) instead of here in our own country" even though thousands of Iraqis were dying. Darfur is another example, doesn't seem to tangibly affect us, so many Americans don't care. Another interesting idea are those individuals locked up in Guantanimo Bay, Cuba and being rendered to 3rd World nations in order that they be tortured for intel, people don't see the implications of such a precedent and don't care because it doesn't momentarily affect them. Problem is, there have been individuals deemed innocent and released. How would you feel if you were wrongly detained, rendered, and tortured only to be released later knowing you were innocent the entire time? But, people don't care because...at the moment...it doesn't affect them.
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Old 03-13-2007, 01:05 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicenChains02
Wheres the lesson? :P
Gah, one of those rare nights when something was broken on my walk through, by the time I finished fixing it, it was too late, will be up tonight though, promise
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Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!
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Old 03-18-2007, 12:09 AM   #248
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you broke your promise.
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:13 AM   #249
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bump for the bible thread. did you get sick of it, ramius? i thought you had infinite patience :(
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Old 03-28-2007, 01:21 AM   #250
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oops I forgot about this :P
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius
Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!
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Old 03-28-2007, 01:32 AM   #251
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*Cracks knuckles*

I'm bad about that.. I'll get a good rythem going, then something will happen and train wreck my concentration. We had a few problems a couple nights nights in a row at work that kept me from logging on here and next thing you know I totally lost track.

Lets start this up again though. I think I have an interesting idea.. gimmie just a sec
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Quote:
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Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:15 AM   #252
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i thought you had given up on me
but i'm glad we can now continue
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Old 04-02-2007, 01:40 PM   #253
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Just as a side note...I dont know if the baby killing discussions had concluded but In each instance that was cited gave an opportunity to save those being killed. So if you choose to ignore the warning (if you go over the speed limit and crash) who's fault is it then?

just thought id contribute my limited knowledge.
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Old 04-02-2007, 02:01 PM   #254
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Just as a side note...I dont know if the baby killing discussions had concluded but In each instance that was cited gave an opportunity to save those being killed. So if you choose to ignore the warning (if you go over the speed limit and crash) who's fault is it then?

just thought id contribute my limited knowledge.
Is the warning in the supposed word of or the actions he was supposed to take in my life to serve as a warning?
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Old 04-02-2007, 03:01 PM   #255
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"supposed word of " but what I was stating was the warning given to the Egyptians and Israelites (blood of a lamb over the entrance) and to those in sodom/ghamora (lot looking for the 10 righteous). My point being Is really mean or harsh just for disciplining those that CHOOSE to disobey after knowing the consequences.
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Old 04-02-2007, 03:42 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherub
"supposed word of " but what I was stating was the warning given to the Egyptians and Israelites (blood of a lamb over the entrance) and to those in sodom/ghamora (lot looking for the 10 righteous). My point being Is really mean or harsh just for disciplining those that CHOOSE to disobey after knowing the consequences.
I tried driving that point home for about 70 pages (obvious exaggeration) so good luck there buddy!
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Old 04-02-2007, 03:52 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherub
"supposed word of " but what I was stating was the warning given to the Egyptians and Israelites (blood of a lamb over the entrance) and to those in sodom/ghamora (lot looking for the 10 righteous). My point being Is really mean or harsh just for disciplining those that CHOOSE to disobey after knowing the consequences.
so only disciplines those who know the consequences? i don't know that i'm going to when i die, i don't know exists, i don't think exists, yet i'm pretty sure the xian perspective says i'm going to for this.

An off topic question-
My bible knowledge is a bit rusty, but I seem to remember hearing that Jesus' blood is supposed to cover the xian's sins upon his/her being viewed by , and then they can go to *heaven*. That's what I was taught...and also I think I remember hearing that before Jesus, there was no blood, so everyone went to , but once he died he went and snatched em up or whatever. That seems like a deal to me, but I just want to know if I have this right?

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Old 04-02-2007, 03:54 PM   #258
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I would sum this up with...

Matthew 7:6 - Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Pretty soon you'll find that the person you're having persistant arguments with will never change their opinion, and that they actually enjoy the argument. Plant the seed and move on. They've heard the truth and will have to answer for their decision. You can plant the seed, pray for their salvation, and leave it at that.

My $0.02

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...I'm glad it's such a boring sport, what would it be like if they watched something a little more interesting, like football? they'd just spontaneously combust on the spot...
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Old 04-02-2007, 03:57 PM   #259
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so only disciplines those who know the consequences? i don't know that i'm going to when i die, i don't know exists, i don't think exists, yet i'm pretty sure the xian perspective says i'm going to for this.

An off topic question-
My bible knowledge is a bit rusty, but I seem to remember hearing that Jesus' blood is supposed to cover the xian's sins upon his/her being viewed by , and then they can go to . That's what I was taught...and also I think I remember hearing that before Jesus, there was no blood, so everyone went to , but once he died he went and snatched em up or whatever. That seems like a deal to me, but I just want to know if I have this right?
You are going to ... jut get over it. :laughing6
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Old 04-02-2007, 03:58 PM   #260
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Why would your give his people a choice then punish them for their choice? Sounds like a setup to me.
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Open your eyes and reclaim the freedom you were born with. - Moody
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