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Old 03-09-2007, 04:14 PM   #221
AliceInChains02
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Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Right but if you are going to refute an event which occured as described in the Bible and you are getting your information from the Bible then yes you must cite the circumstances upon which the event was predicated, as written IN THE BIBLE. Hope that's not too hard to understand...

This is the foundation upon whic debate is founded, intelligent discussion based on credible, tangible evidences.
What am I refuting? I'm debating the morality of 's actions, I'm not exactly questioning whether any of this happened.
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Old 03-09-2007, 04:37 PM   #222
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Okay, well you're saying did it, and is perfect, and can do no wrong, so implicitly you're saying he did the right thing, and it's just his mysterious nature that we can't figure out, well I don't buy that, sorry. Truth and belief should be based on understanding, and there's not a lot that's understandable about a lot of the Bible. You say why he Thought it was okay, is that to say you think thinks? Can think if he already knows everything? I don't totally disregard the circumstances, once again, I'M SAYING IT DOESN'T MATTER!!! JUST LIKE YOU SAID IT WOULDN'T MATTER IF I TOLD YOU I WAS GOING TO KILL A BUNCH OF BABIES TONIGHT, BECAUSE TO ME THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE GOODNESS/badness IN MY ACTIONS AND THE GOODNESS/badness IN 'S ACTIONS. The ground I am standing on is called morality. You're requirement of verification of every single thing is beyond ridiculous. I don't cite something to the fullest extent, and it's nothing but hearsay.
You say I only take into account what others have said and what I've heard, well what are you taking into account? You're taking into account what was written down by a man, 1000s of years ago, whose intentions and state of mind you most likely do not know. do you know how legitimate the Bible is, and hence know every author and how he acquired each piece of info? Oh wait, you have faith, nvm. Why don't You go the extra step and after citing the bible, cite another source to back up that information and cite where they found that information out just so we can be sure we're not reading a bunch of BS.
I have come to realize that regardless of what I say, your comprehending and actually rebutting with intelligence is beyond that which you are capable of, therefore I will waste no more time on it. You are so incoherent in your arguments that it is a bit difficult to follow at times. No, cannot do any wrong. Yes, is perfect, such is the nature of divinity. I said "thought" and you can pick that apart but that is mere semantics, in the end it communicated my point and you understood what I was stating. To sit and focus on the word also shows how quickly you change topics to irrelevant and trivial issues. You are right, you lack understanding, as well as I, it's that...you just happen to take lack of understanding to severe degrees. Actually what I said was that if you said you were going to "kill a bunch of babies", that I would report you. You say you are basing your arguments on morality but upon what are you basing this morality. Morality stems from religion and religious beliefs. Within nature, there is no obvious trend toward ethics or morality, rather it is a matter of the organism most adaptable and with the most advantageous traits that will survive and reproduce. Again I ask, where do you get your morals? At base level, where? The enlightened man? Were that the case then you are merely following those ideas most advantageous to that particular man or group of mens' overall agenda. Meaning that you are no different than me and my beliefs in a doctrine written by a man 1000's of years ago with but the difference, other than the fact that those morals upon which I base my judgements were inspired by , is that those morals that I speak of have been in place for a far longer time. This is not to chase a rabbit, Alice, but I am quite curious as to how you ascertain what is moral and what is not. I have limited knowledge on the Bible, but then again, there is always more to learn about anything. That said, I am very aware of the history of the Bible and how and why it became the Bible we see today. The Bible of course was not always in the unified structure you see today. The cannonization of the Bible is an interesting topic, one which I am sure you know nothing about and haven't even considered as consequential until you look it up. You have no ground to stand Alice, drop it.
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Old 03-09-2007, 04:38 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
What am I refuting? I'm debating the morality of 's actions, I'm not exactly questioning whether any of this happened.
You flip topics faster than CNN Headline - - News....go read the thread! :laughing6
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Old 03-09-2007, 04:54 PM   #224
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Aight well I'm out for the weekend, see your reply on Monday I suppose. Otherwise, see you on the road....dOOse
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Old 03-09-2007, 05:20 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
I have come to realize that regardless of what I say, your comprehending and actually rebutting with intelligence is beyond that which you are capable of(so much for not making this personal), therefore I will waste no more time on it. You are so incoherent in your arguments that it is a bit difficult to follow at times.strange, i feel the same way about you No, cannot do any wrong. Yes, is perfect, such is the nature of divinity. I said "thought" and you can pick that apart but that is mere semanticsyes, like this is the first time we've ever broken it down to words i think you are actually the king of that, in the end it communicated my point and you understood what I was stating.
Yes, I understood what you were saying, I was only adding a supplemental question, if you didn't want to discuss it, it's no big deal. It was just a thought.
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To sit and focus on the word also shows how quickly you change topics to irrelevant and trivial issues. You are right, you lack understanding, as well as I, it's that...you just happen to take lack of understanding to severe degrees.
You're such an arrogant *, it's not even funny anymore.
As little as I may understand what you're trying to say sometimes, I never judged you and made it out to be that you were "severely lacking in understanding". I'm always open to the possibility that I may be wrong, but when you pretty much call me a dumbass, I can't stand for that. Look at your signature, because you need to reread that as well.
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Actually what I said was that if you said you were going to "kill a bunch of babies", that I would report you.
I know that. I was saying you said the circumstances don't matter in my case. :confused2
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You say you are basing your arguments on morality but upon what are you basing this morality. Morality stems from religion and religious beliefs. Within nature, there is no obvious trend toward ethics or morality, rather it is a matter of the organism most adaptable and with the most advantageous traits that will survive and reproduce. Again I ask, where do you get your morals?
Morals do not stem from religion, they stem from Good and Bad, very relative concepts, but not necessarily religious. How do I determine if something is good or bad? Well, that's hard to answer in a general sense, but I don't think the pursuit of an absolute good, something to base everything on, is futile or not worth pursuing.
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At base level, where? The enlightened man? Were that the case then you are merely following those ideas most advantageous to that particular man or group of mens' overall agenda.
Following? Not necessarily. Studying, yes. The agenda of Buddhism is understanding and truth, so I don't think that's a bad "agenda" to "follow".
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Meaning that you are no different than me and my beliefs in a doctrine written by a man 1000's of years ago with but the difference, other than the fact that those morals upon which I base my judgements were inspired by , is that those morals that I speak of have been in place for a far longer time.
So the earlier the morals were developed, the better? What does it mean that the morals have been in place a far longer time? I am different than you, because I don't say that everything Buddhism says is true, I only say I'm interested in it because I like the ideas it presents. But I believe you say that IS real?
Quote:
This is not to chase a rabbit, Alice, but I am quite curious as to how you ascertain what is moral and what is not. I have limited knowledge on the Bible, but then again, there is always more to learn about anything. That said, I am very aware of the history of the Bible and how and why it became the Bible we see today. The Bible of course was not always in the unified structure you see today. The cannonization of the Bible is an interesting topic, one which I am sure you know nothing about and haven't even considered as consequential until you look it up. You have no ground to stand Alice, drop it.
More arrogance, telling me what I consider, I really lost a lot of respect for you in these posts. And I hope I provided you with enough reflected anger to make that feeling mutual.
I've been looking for something solid to say 'This Is Good', for a long time. It's hard. It's very hard. But I think, taking for granted that life is good(a discussion in of it's own self), that you can deduce that understanding and truth are also good, because life is functioning, and therefore understanding one's environment.
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Old 03-10-2007, 02:04 AM   #226
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*Checking in for the weekend shift*

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Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Okay, so you don't have to ask for forgiveness for every sin once you are saved? and you can still go to Heaven? But you get rewards for asking for forgiveness?
What do you mean by "heard of Jesus Christ"? Does that include those who heard and just don't believe, or is there not such a thing in the bible's view? Or does it refer to those who turn away from their beliefs for other reasons, like money, and mental comfort? Can really be so callous as to eternally people who are skeptical for rational reasons like science and history provides? Are scientists really just the devil in disguise, trying to ruin our salvation?
It refers to anyone, who has been told of the works of Jesus, and has said "no". The _only_ exemptions to this are those who have never been told (such as indian tribes in the amazon or other remote places) or the mentally inept (who lack the ability to comprehend).

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Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
It's understandable to try to discipline your child and teach them to do what is right, but where is the lesson in eternal damnation? I mean, what's the point in learning something if you can never improve your situation? It's punishment to the scariest, most deep reaching level of fear imaginable, and that's where a lot of my issues lie with the bible. I think a lot of christians primary motivation for believing is being scared into it as a child. many years down the road after they've already reinforced their beliefs and covered up that fear with a blanket of love, it's understandable that they might not even remember being scared of , but I know from personal experience that was my primary motivation in 'trying' to believe.
You know, eternal damnation is supposed to be scarey, because it really is scarey. However, once you have been saved, no amount of up will get you a ticket to so long as you ask forgiveness.

I am not a Christian motivated by fear, and I really do not know of any who are. I fear for others, who do not believe, but for myself, I have no fear because I know where I'm going, signed sealed and delivered. To me that is the common viewpoint of all Believers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Some things may be explained clearly in the bible, but the majority of things seem to be vague and mysterious to me. They mention a war between some nations, etc. etc. happening before Revelations, and look how many people find different scenarios that match exactly that and prophecize doomsday. It's vagueness that leads to this.
The Bible will say something different to you every time you read it, I do not care if you are Billy Graham... each time you read the Bible, it will seem different, Thats just how it works. It may be vague and mysterious to you now (or whenever it was that you read it).

There are several ways to build your knowledge and comprehension of the Bible, the very best is to have someone explain it (i.e. church). You can also listen to 105.7 (I recommend from 8am to 9am, chuck Swindall has the bottom of the hour and Tony Evans has the top, both are very good speakers) In all honesty, you may relate to Dr. Evans better, I do, Chuck Swindall is extremely knowledgeable and extremely smart but some times he makes me sleepy... sometimes. Dr Evans is, in my mind, one of the best public speakers out there, not just limited to religion, he has a way of making his point clear, understandable, and entertaining. I wish his church was in houston.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
If really wanted people to believe and to know he existed he could do it easily, so what's the point in this Test of faith? Where does faith come from? How is it acquired whenever you don't have any? You said struggles help build your faith, so i guess this would be next logical question to that.
This very issue was addressed in the book of Luke chapter 16.

It tells a story about two people, one is a lepor named Lazarus and the other is simply referred to as "a rich man who wore purple".

Though the second descrption seems Vague, lets get a better understanding of the times. At the time of this story, we didn't have Wal Mart, or Banana republic or even the good will. Everything was hand made, and clothing as such, was generally very plain, if you had something with color in it, that was really something. To have the color purple though, that was considered Royalty. It was very very hard to obtain? Why? Because there was only one place that the color purple came from.. and that was from a shellfish found in the medaterranian sea. To obtain enough dye for one garment, you would need approximately 10,000 mollusks. So, when you hear a "man who wore only purple" this seemingly vague description suddenly tells you a lot more about this person.

So here you have this guy.. I'm not thinking he was as Rich as Bill Gates but lets use him as an example.. So you've got Bill Gates and every day he comes home to his estate there is a lepor outside his gates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke chapter 16
20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
He wasn't asking for feed, he just wanted some of the crumbs left from the mans plate.. this is someone who was so weak he could merely lay there.. even as dogs came up and licked on his sores he didn't have the energy to swat them away, he could only lay there.. so you have two people at two polar opposites of the success scale in the world.. and here they are living side by side. well....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke chapter 16

22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23And in he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
They both died, here is another seemingly vague sentance. Look at the words and.. _And_ it came to pass that the begger died _And_ was carried by the angels into Abrahams Bosom. The Begger died, _and_ was carried.. The rich man died _and_ was buried.

The lepor was so poor he couldn't even get someone to dig a hole in the ground for him... he was probably just scooped up by the trash cart.. in those days they had paupers graves.. mass graves for the poor, which was merely a large pit where the bodies were tossed till they filled up then covered over.

The rich man was buried, he probably had a fancy funeral service with a nice tombstone and lots of mourners who cried and wept for his loss... while the lepor was hauled off with the trash and dumped into a forever anonymous place of no recognition.
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Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!

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Old 03-10-2007, 02:17 AM   #227
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Now.. here is where the lesson begins..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke chapter 16

24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
This is a brief description of .. it's so hot, the flames burn so brightly and he is so... so dry, that he is begging for just a drip of water.. just one drop just to let one drop soak on his tongue.

Well.. he doesn't get it. There is no relief from . However, the man in purple is thinking about his 5 brothers now, who live just as he did, back on earth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke chapter 16
27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
There is no relief from . However, the man in purple is thinking about his 5 brothers now, who live just as he did, back on earth. He wants Abraham to send Lazarus back to earth.. back to warn them of just how much pain and suffering he is in, lest they go down the same path and end up as he did..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke chapter 16
29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Abraham says Hey.. they've got everything they need to believe, they have the prophets, they had Moses.. they even had Jesus who came to earth, was crucified and rose from the dead three days later.. they had ALL of that, yet still did not believe. So what good would sending a ghost do?

It would be very easy for to make the rocks in your yard sing His name, it would be very easy for Him to send a little bird and tell you to repent. He has the ability to do all that, however, that is not Faith.

What is Faith you ask? Faith is going to sleep believing that the sun will come up tomorrow even though you have not checked satelite tracking to make sure it still exists. Faith is believing without seeing, Faith is Trust. It is not tangible, you cannot measure it, you cannot hold it feel it or poke it. Faith is one of the most powerful forces in the world, one of the most fragile forces in the world and truly one of the most beautiful forces in the world.

How do you get faith? Simply believe, believe that there is something out there bigger than you are, believe that it loves you and believe that no matter how bad you have messed up, no matter how many mistakes you have made, you are forgiven, and you are always welcome. Believe that if you ask for knowledge of Him you shall get it and if you ask for understanding you shall receive it. The way you get faith is to let go and to trust.



Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Let truth, understanding, and goodness rule. Ethics don't have to be carved in stone to work, but they will never be advanced if people think they already know what's good and bad because the Bible says so.
This is confusing to me, because the Bible teaches Goodness truth and understanding, it ALSO teaches that ethics do not have to be carved into stone. What confuses me, is how you feel that ethics need to be advanced, what ethical situation could we possibly have that hasn't already been discussed in the Bible or how is believing in the Bible holding anyones ethics behind?
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Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!
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Old 03-10-2007, 12:25 PM   #228
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It refers to anyone, who has been told of the works of Jesus, and has said "no". The _only_ exemptions to this are those who have never been told (such as indian tribes in the amazon or other remote places) or the mentally inept (who lack the ability to comprehend).
Don't you think it's somewhat reasonable for someone to not believe? I just don't understand why would send people to for not believing, especially people who have tried to believe, and people who have begged to know Jesus.

Quote:
You know, eternal damnation is supposed to be scarey, because it really is scarey. However, once you have been saved, no amount of up will get you a ticket to so long as you ask forgiveness.

I am not a Christian motivated by fear, and I really do not know of any who are. I fear for others, who do not believe, but for myself, I have no fear because I know where I'm going, signed sealed and delivered. To me that is the common viewpoint of all Believers.
So the idea of didn't frighten you as a child, Before you Believed in ? Imagine you're sitting in a new place full of new people, as a young child, and they're telling you that if you don't believe in this fella you're going to frolic on hot coals, screaming in agony, with a pitchfork up your for eternity. You don't think that would have any effect? Or did they first tell you about this loving guy up in the sky that's so rad and cool and he likes Barney and he'll be your best friend if you just pray to him and he'll talk to you(this is probably at an age where you still believe in Santa, btw, a long ways before reason has started to develop), because to me, either way, they get you young for a reason and it's hard to truly, deeply question something that's been so deeply engrained from such a young age.
What can someone do who can't believe(or is the issue that they won't believe?)? It's not something you can force on yourself, it's not something that happens magically, and for me it wasn't something that grants you, so what are you supposed to do if you can't believe? Does the Bible accept that some people cannot believe, the same way someone who couldn't comprehend the bible couldn't believe, except it's someone who comprehends the Bible differently?


Quote:
The Bible will say something different to you every time you read it, I do not care if you are Billy Graham... each time you read the Bible, it will seem different, Thats just how it works. It may be vague and mysterious to you now (or whenever it was that you read it).

There are several ways to build your knowledge and comprehension of the Bible, the very best is to have someone explain it (i.e. church).
The overall moral message is what's vague/mysterious to me.
I'm hoping you'll help me understand the Bible, and I appreciate your patience with me:icon_smil
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Old 03-10-2007, 01:49 PM   #229
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Old 03-10-2007, 04:30 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Don't you think it's somewhat reasonable for someone to not believe? I just don't understand why would send people to for not believing, especially people who have tried to believe, and people who have begged to know Jesus.
Oh of course I agree with that, without Faith we could reason away the Bible all day, I have never seen a stick turn into a snake, how could it possibly be? I have never seen someone walk on water, it must be lies. I have never felt the hands of a man with leprosy only to see him dancing the next day fully healed. If you do not have faith and have trust it would be very easy to reason yourself out of the Bible.

To me though, I see salvation as a bitter vicious and deadly struggle. There is more going on that what we can perceive with our own senses, it is a Spiritual War. There _are_ good angels and there are bad ones. Do you believe in Demonic posession such as in the exorcist or with the the exorcism of Emily Rose?

Not to sound paranoid but there are Demons among us, who seek desperatly to bring us over to the dark side. Now, when I say the dark side, I do not mean you go around killing bunnies or anything like that, to be on the dark side the only requirement is you have to not believe. The Devil is also desperate, he will do anything that he is able to do in order to coax someone over to his side. One of his best tricks, is one I sometimes am guilty of employing myself. Cater to someones intelligence, if I see someone trying to buy a car from me and they cannot decide between paying cash for one of my vehicles or putting that down on a new car, well, I don't want them to take their investment over to the new car lot because I want it... so I will try to convince them of the merits of owning a used car. I tell them how it is the intelligent choice because they would have no financial obligation to meet every month, they would have equity in the vehicle (at least if you buy from me you will) whereas a new car is instantly depreciated and all the other merits to convince them to stay.

The demonic society, I believe, is doing the same thing for themselves. Sending messages out that only stupid people believe in Christ, it is smart to not believe and it's easier to not believe (no more asking for forgiveness, no church blah blah)

Anyways, thats beginning to get off track. One question that came up that I did not intentionally put in there though, is, what is your stance on Demonic posession?

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Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
So the idea of didn't frighten you as a child, Before you Believed in ? Imagine you're sitting in a new place full of new people, as a young child, and they're telling you that if you don't believe in this fella you're going to frolic on hot coals, screaming in agony, with a pitchfork up your for eternity. You don't think that would have any effect? Or did they first tell you about this loving guy up in the sky that's so rad and cool and he likes Barney and he'll be your best friend if you just pray to him and he'll talk to you(this is probably at an age where you still believe in Santa, btw, a long ways before reason has started to develop), because to me, either way, they get you young for a reason and it's hard to truly, deeply question something that's been so deeply engrained from such a young age.
What can someone do who can't believe(or is the issue that they won't believe?)? It's not something you can force on yourself, it's not something that happens magically, and for me it wasn't something that grants you, so what are you supposed to do if you can't believe? Does the Bible accept that some people cannot believe, the same way someone who couldn't comprehend the bible couldn't believe, except it's someone who comprehends the Bible differently?
Well this is going to be hard to explain, not because I do not have an answer but because it's a really long one. Ok, It is a lot easier to come to Christ as a child, than as an adult. As you said, Children will generally do what their parents (or infuencial person in their lives) tell them. If you ingrain religion into them at an early age, chances are very very good that it will stick and if they grow with it, religion will become a part of their normal life that they carry with them their whole lives.

For me was scarey as a child yes, but, I only believed in because I believed in Jesus, to me not believing in would be like thinking you could have a chicken without the egg.

Yes was Scarey, but I was not scared. Like seeing a Lion behind a cage at the zoo, you look at it, and when it roars you take a quick step back because you know that if the cage wasn't there, you would be in big trouble, but at the same time you aren't too worried because the cage _is_ there to restrain him. When I was a child, I never believed in Jesus because I was afraid of . I believed in Jesus because I could feel Him near me when I would pray, I asked, earnestly, for Him to come into my life and help guide me when I was unsure, to comfort me when I was alone and to teach me when I was ignorant. Unless you have been there to know, you wouldn't understand what I'm about to say but the truth is at that moment I felt the Holy Spirit come over me, it was a strange tingling sensation that went all over me, it ran down my spine and back up it again and it was... indescribable.

As a Child, and you will see a combination of youthful imagination intertwined with faith, I believed, in full and total honesty that if I ever saw a Demon from (you are prepared for anything as a kid) that I didn't have to be afraid because would put a sword in my hand to fight him with, should one show up. Yeah, it sounds corny, but to an 8 year old sleeping alone in the dark, and scared, not of the boogyman who didn't exist but of demons that everyone said DID in fact exist this was pretty significant.

I still think that way to this day though, not in the literal "put a sword in my hand" sense, but in the sense that no matter what comes into my life, what trials I face or anything that may happen, the Lord will always put things into my life that I can use to overcome. I also recognise, that sometimes I am that tool for another person. I allow myself to be used as a vessel to teach others of Him in whatever fashion He chooses. The truth of the matter is, it is not me doing anything or getting anything done, it is the Holy Spirit working through me, I am merely a willing vessel.

I still feel it when He moves me, I feel the Spirit guide me along when I am unsure and yes,sometimes I feel it move me to do things I don't want to do. However, it's never led me astray, even when everything in my body told me not to, and it said yes and I did it, it has always been right.


I'm getting off topic, if you grow up not believing, or unsure, it is harder to come to Christ because your logical mind wants to reject Christ.

Telling people come to because hurts is the exact wrong thing to say to bring someone to just as you said it would, because it would be out of fear not love. There are two types of preachers, both needed, you have the evangelical preacher, and the gospel preacher.

The Evangelical preachers are the ones like Billy Graham, who has had a greater ministry, and has brought more people to Christ than any other person in the history of the world. They get to preach all of the good stuff of being saved, they actually do not bring up . They tell you about the joys of being a Christian without the obligations of being a Christian. Kind of like when you buy a car, they don't mention how you have to keep putting gas in it, changing the oil and buying new tires to maintain it, they just tell you how smooth it rides and how comfortable it is.

Your Sunday school preacher, the one who gives you the gospel, he is the one who educates you on the finer points of the Bible, what is, how it works, how to avoid it, what is, how He works, How to embrace him...

The truth of the matter is, most people do not hear too much about until it has no effect on them anymore spiritually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
The overall moral message is what's vague/mysterious to me.
I'm hoping you'll help me understand the Bible, and I appreciate your patience with me:icon_smil
It's all good, I figure we have 50 years or so to go back and forth on this and I'm in no hurry :laughing6


BTW, when I come back tonight, I will have a lot of relative Bible verses to put in with this, but, I hate to paraphrase and I do not have it with me atm.
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Originally Posted by Ramius
Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!
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Old 03-11-2007, 12:48 PM   #231
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i'll wait for you to post the textual support before i respond.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:54 PM   #232
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Gotta make some rounds first, will have everything up within a couple of hours
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Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!
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Old 03-12-2007, 01:45 AM   #233
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The first verse for tonight deals with The Holy Ghost..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acts chapter 5
32And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom hath given to them that obey him
What is the Holy Ghost? It is part of the Holy Trinity (The Father/Son/Holy Ghost) The Father is our creator (from the old Testiment) the Son is Jesus who came to Earth and died for our sins when He Died He yielded the Holy Ghost which in turn resides in the heart of any person who has accepted Jesus as his/her savior and accepts it into their hearts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke chapter 12
11And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:

12For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
What is the Holy Ghost doing in us? According to Jesus the Holy Ghost resides in you, to teach you, and guide you. He is your moral compass, your designated driver, your guide an conscience.

A man was at a gas station, he was new in town and was looking for a hotel in which to stay the night. He asked a local how to get there and the local man replied "You take a left here, go down four lights, take a right, proceed three blocks to the second stop sign, take a left, look for the dry cleaner on the right and it's two buildings down on the left" all the while the man is trying frantically to write these directions down, put them in order and make sense when the local man said "Tell you what, why dont you let me drive you".

The Holy Ghost wants to drive you.. this world has been around for thousands of years.. so in terms of the couple of decades you've been around... your the new guy in town. You can make a list of directions all day long on how to get to where your going, but the whole time your following this list you have to worry about counting the lights, looking for the corner, did you go to far? Not far enough? It is so much easier to let someone else take control, that way you can sit in the passanger seat and relax and enjoy the scenary.

The Holy Ghost works on the same principle, He wants to Guide you through your life, He knows where He is Going, He knows how to get you to where you need to be but we have too many people that don't want to let go of the wheel, at least not until they get into Trouble! "Not Now Jesus, I got this! Sit back there and don't touch my radio.. I'm doing fine *cop lights in the rearview* Lord Get up here and Save me!!" Why not just let Him steer in the first place? He knows what He's doing then you won't have to ask Him for bail money.

The same thing goes with what is spoken here, if I try and sit down and write up what I feel needs to be said, I will surely fail. I pray, and wait, and the Holy Ghost Guides me, just as Jesus instructed in that chapter of Luke. He knows what needs to be said, He is just waiting for me to give Him the mic to say it, which I gladly do. I am not the teacher, He is, I am merely the vessel through which His word is delivered.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

What should a Christian do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke chapter 12
29And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.

30For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.

31But rather seek ye the kingdom of ; and all these things shall be added unto you.

32Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
This is a pretty good list right here..

1. Wait for the Lord
2. Trust in the Lord
3. Rely on the Lord

Thats a lot to pick up from there.. Ramius how do you see that?

1. Wait for the Lord

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Chapter 12
29And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.
The Lord will provide for those that wait on Him, and do not Doubt His ability. Now, theres an old joke about the man who was trapped in his house during a flood, when the water got four foot deep a fire truck came by and said "Hey Buddy, want a lift?" "No thanks" the man replied "I'm waiting for Jesus to come save me" a couple hours went by, the water was up to the 7 foot mark and a couple guys in a john boat trollied by "Hey mr. need some help?" "No thanks, Jesus is coming for me" a few more hours passed, and by now the man is standing on his roof with water coming up still.. a helicopter passed by and said "Hey grab onto the rope, we'll get you out of here" "Thats ok, Jesus is coming to save me!" Well.. 30 minutes later the guy drowned, when he got to heavan he asked Jesus "Hey I waited for you like you asked but you never came to my rescue, what gives?" Jesus looked at him and said "What are you talking about, I sent a firetruck, a boat and a helicopter but you never jumped onboard!"

If you sit at your table with a fork and a knife you can't expect a steak to magically appear before you, but if you pray to Jesus and go into the world seeking Him, He will provide.

2. Trust in the Lord
[quote=Luke chapter 12]
30For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.

31But rather seek ye the kingdom of ; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Dr. Evans talked once about his childhood, he grew up during a recession and he had a few siblings living with him and his parents. His parents didn't always have money to buy food so every once and a while his dad would take him down to the pier with a cane pole and some crawfish they had caught. They would sit out on the dock and fish and bring home the fish that ms evans would fry up and they would eat that night.

They could have sat around hungry and complained "Oh Lord Why have thou forsaken me??" but they didn't, they were hungry, they took their pole and put it in the water and said "Lord thou art mighty and I know that if I stick this pole in this water you will provide me with food for the evening" and there, through Faith, they waited on the Lord to send them a fish and while they felt hunger, they never went hungry!

knew they needed food, He's not blind, the Evans family knew this too, they sought the Lord and Trusted the Lord and the Lord Provided what He knew they needed.

3. Rely on the Lord

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke chapter 12
32Fear not, little flock;
When I go to work, I do not get paid in advance, I give them 80 hours of labor, and afterwards they provide me with a check. I Rely on them for this and they have proven with 100% accuracy that every 80 hours I will receive my wages. I have no fear that this will be a steady occurance so long as I am employed by this company.

The Lord is telling us the same thing, Fear Not, Christians, He is With You. The Holy Spirit is in you and you can rely on Him to provide for you. Though you may hunger He brings food, though you may be in darkness He brings light and though you may hurt, He brings healing to all who believe.

{more coming}
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Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:13 AM   #234
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Belief.

What is believing?

The Definition of Believe is as follows

Main Entry: be·lieve
Function: verb
1 to consider to be true or honest <believe the reports> <you wouldn't believe how long it took> b : to accept the word or evidence of <I believe you> <couldn't believe my ears>

To many people get this definition confused.

To believe in Jesus means that You Believe without a doubt that He can do All of the things He says He can Do. You believe if He wanted he could throw the Mountain into the Sea, you believe He can give the Blind sight and the Cripple Legs, You believe that He can Raise the dead.

Too many people say "I tried to believe.. but I still was not happy with my life so I stopped" Thats not believing, thats setting circumstances. True belief has no circumstances. You do not believe if you say "I will believe in you if you make these things happen in my life, if your real I'll get this or you'll do that for me" thats not belief, thats a sales pitch.

True belief is "Lord, I believe in you and I trust you"

Not everyone in the Bible believed was right away, even those who heard His voice directly.

The first example that comes to mind to me is Gideon.

Gideon was the son of Joash.. and when the Lord appeared to him, it was the middle of summer, and he was Threshing wheat.

I dont know how many old timers are reading this to know what all is involved in threshing wheat but let me tell you, it's not fun. Especially in Biblical days.

To Thresh what, you take the stalks that have been gathered from the field, and lay them out, you have to beat the wheat stalks with something, a big stick or whatever, to seperate the grains of wheat from the stalks in which they grew, Keep in mind that it's very hot, they did not have air conditioning and you had to smack a lot of stalks for a little bit of grains. Once the grains have been properly seperated.. you must then sift through all the rubbish to seperate the smaller wheat grains from the larger stalk chunks. By now your about halfway through. Now what you have is a mixture of Wheat Grains, and Chaff, which is the outer shell surrounding the wheat.

So you take this mixture outside, and hope it's windy because back then they didn't have fans either. So you take this mixture and toss it up into the air because the grain, is heavier than the chaff, and while the grain would fall back to the earth, the chaff would be picked up by the wind and blown away.

For an hours work you yielded about 1/2 gallon of wheat. I don't know about you, but I get mad if I have to drive 10 minutes to the store to buy a loaf of bread. I do not know what I would do if i had to perform manual labor every time I wanted a sandwich. 1/2 gallon of wheat is not that much, so for you to be able to feed your family for one meal, you had to nearly put in a full days work just prepping the wheat that has not been cooked but has already been harvested..

Our story takes place in a time of War, in Isreal, where GIdeon lives, it has been invaded by the Medianites. They have been there for 7 years. In Gideons mind he's thinking " was supposed to protect us from outsiders, this was the Holy Land that he swore would belong to us.. now look at us.. gah!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judges Chapter 6
12And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him, and said unto him, The LORD is with thee, thou mighty man of valour.
So here we find Gideon, if he's anything like us, he'd rather be fishing, or sleeping, or doing anything besides what he's doing. He's tired, he's dirty, and since they did not have any deoderant he is probably smelling pretty ripe at this point, and out of no where someo voice wants to boom at him "Hey how are you doing, I'm here with you, you brave person!"

Now remembering that Gideon has been living as basically a slave to the midianites for 7 years, and here comes pretending like nothing is wrong, this obviously preturbed Gideon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judges chapter 6
13And Gideon said unto him, Oh my Lord, if the LORD be with us, why then is all this befallen us? and where be all his miracles which our fathers told us of, saying, Did not the LORD bring us up from Egypt? but now the LORD hath forsaken us, and delivered us into the hands of the Midianites.
He's saying "? Your saying your ? Well if your where have you been, what about all the stuff my parents told me about that you would take care of us, where are my miracles, why have you forsaken us, where the heck have you been??"

Now, if was the mighty angry smiter of men as some have professed him to be, I would imagine this would be as worthy of an example of balefire as anything.. however..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judges chapter 6
14And the LORD looked upon him, and said, Go in this thy might, and thou shalt save Israel from the hand of the Midianites: have not I sent thee?

15And he said unto him, Oh my Lord, wherewith shall I save Israel? behold, my family is poor in Manasseh, and I am the least in my father's house.
Gideon is thinking "This guy must think he's some kind of funny man" Me? Save Isreal... I'm no body.. I'm the least valuable person in my fathers house, I've been hucking wheat all day and you have the nerve to come down here and say I'm going to deliver an entire country from it's invaders??"

[Lesson to be continued tomorrow, we will see how Gideon tested not once, not twice, but three times before finally believing h im to be true, and we will see what wonderous things he was able to accomplish after this. We will also see how sometimes lets the bad into your life, so that he can show you the good]

And yes, all this ties into my previous two posts.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius
Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!
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Old 03-12-2007, 10:26 AM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius
Belief.

What is believing?

The Definition of Believe is as follows

Main Entry: be·lieve
Function: verb
1 to consider to be true or honest <believe the reports> <you wouldn't believe how long it took> b : to accept the word or evidence of <I believe you> <couldn't believe my ears>

To many people get this definition confused.

To believe in Jesus means that You Believe without a doubt that He can do All of the things He says He can Do. You believe if He wanted he could throw the Mountain into the Sea, you believe He can give the Blind sight and the Cripple Legs, You believe that He can Raise the dead.

Too many people say "I tried to believe.. but I still was not happy with my life so I stopped" Thats not believing, thats setting circumstances. True belief has no circumstances. You do not believe if you say "I will believe in you if you make these things happen in my life, if your real I'll get this or you'll do that for me" thats not belief, thats a sales pitch.

True belief is "Lord, I believe in you and I trust you"

Not everyone in the Bible believed was right away, even those who heard His voice directly.

The first example that comes to mind to me is Gideon.

Gideon was the son of Joash.. and when the Lord appeared to him, it was the middle of summer, and he was Threshing wheat.

I dont know how many old timers are reading this to know what all is involved in threshing wheat but let me tell you, it's not fun. Especially in Biblical days.

To Thresh what, you take the stalks that have been gathered from the field, and lay them out, you have to beat the wheat stalks with something, a big stick or whatever, to seperate the grains of wheat from the stalks in which they grew, Keep in mind that it's very hot, they did not have air conditioning and you had to smack a lot of stalks for a little bit of grains. Once the grains have been properly seperated.. you must then sift through all the rubbish to seperate the smaller wheat grains from the larger stalk chunks. By now your about halfway through. Now what you have is a mixture of Wheat Grains, and Chaff, which is the outer shell surrounding the wheat.

So you take this mixture outside, and hope it's windy because back then they didn't have fans either. So you take this mixture and toss it up into the air because the grain, is heavier than the chaff, and while the grain would fall back to the earth, the chaff would be picked up by the wind and blown away.

For an hours work you yielded about 1/2 gallon of wheat. I don't know about you, but I get mad if I have to drive 10 minutes to the store to buy a loaf of bread. I do not know what I would do if i had to perform manual labor every time I wanted a sandwich. 1/2 gallon of wheat is not that much, so for you to be able to feed your family for one meal, you had to nearly put in a full days work just prepping the wheat that has not been cooked but has already been harvested..

Our story takes place in a time of War, in Isreal, where GIdeon lives, it has been invaded by the Medianites. They have been there for 7 years. In Gideons mind he's thinking " was supposed to protect us from outsiders, this was the Holy Land that he swore would belong to us.. now look at us.. gah!"



So here we find Gideon, if he's anything like us, he'd rather be fishing, or sleeping, or doing anything besides what he's doing. He's tired, he's dirty, and since they did not have any deoderant he is probably smelling pretty ripe at this point, and out of no where someo voice wants to boom at him "Hey how are you doing, I'm here with you, you brave person!"

Now remembering that Gideon has been living as basically a slave to the midianites for 7 years, and here comes pretending like nothing is wrong, this obviously preturbed Gideon


He's saying "? Your saying your ? Well if your where have you been, what about all the stuff my parents told me about that you would take care of us, where are my miracles, why have you forsaken us, where the heck have you been??"

Now, if was the mighty angry smiter of men as some have professed him to be, I would imagine this would be as worthy of an example of balefire as anything.. however..



Gideon is thinking "This guy must think he's some kind of funny man" Me? Save Isreal... I'm no body.. I'm the least valuable person in my fathers house, I've been hucking wheat all day and you have the nerve to come down here and say I'm going to deliver an entire country from it's invaders??"

[Lesson to be continued tomorrow, we will see how Gideon tested not once, not twice, but three times before finally believing h im to be true, and we will see what wonderous things he was able to accomplish after this. We will also see how sometimes lets the bad into your life, so that he can show you the good]

And yes, all this ties into my previous two posts.
Good stuff!

Alice,
I am going to practice a little humility (very rare) and apologize if I personally offended you by knocking your intelligence. The tone of the thread should stay within the scope of intellectual conversation. You did kinda me off though with a few of your subtle shots...
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Old 03-12-2007, 11:05 AM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Good stuff!

Alice,
I am going to practice a little humility (very rare) and apologize if I personally offended you by knocking your intelligence. The tone of the thread should stay within the scope of intellectual conversation. You did kinda me off though with a few of your subtle shots...
Please show me where I took a shot at you(or is it Christianity?).
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Old 03-12-2007, 11:49 AM   #237
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Old 03-12-2007, 11:56 AM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius
Oh of course I agree with that, without Faith we could reason away the Bible all day, I have never seen a stick turn into a snake, how could it possibly be? I have never seen someone walk on water, it must be lies. I have never felt the hands of a man with leprosy only to see him dancing the next day fully healed. If you do not have faith and have trust it would be very easy to reason yourself out of the Bible.

To me though, I see salvation as a bitter vicious and deadly struggle. There is more going on that what we can perceive with our own senses, it is a Spiritual War. There _are_ good angels and there are bad ones. Do you believe in Demonic posession such as in the exorcist or with the the exorcism of Emily Rose?
(had to edit part out, too much text)

The demonic society, I believe, is doing the same thing for themselves. Sending messages out that only stupid people believe in Christ, it is smart to not believe and it's easier to not believe (no more asking for forgiveness, no church blah blah)

Anyways, thats beginning to get off track. One question that came up that I did not intentionally put in there though, is, what is your stance on Demonic posession?
I don't believe in demonic possession. I do think there's an ever-present battle everywhere, between Good and Bad, which could be symbolized by demons and angels if one wishes, but I don't believe there's actually angels and demons.



Quote:
Well this is going to be hard to explain, not because I do not have an answer but because it's a really long one. Ok, It is a lot easier to come to Christ as a child, than as an adult. As you said, Children will generally do what their parents (or infuencial person in their lives) tell them. If you ingrain religion into them at an early age, chances are very very good that it will stick and if they grow with it, religion will become a part of their normal life that they carry with them their whole lives.
Okay, so do the kids have a 'choice' to 'believe' when they are that young? Does it matter if they do or do not? A Clockwork Orange example, again, would say much here, I think.
I GUESS if you believe that 's absolutely real, and salvation is top priority, than it really doesn't matter to you how you save your child's soul though, does it? I mean, I know if I believed, I wouldn't care about "choice" and other subtleties when it came to saving my child from .

Quote:
For me was scarey as a child yes, but, I only believed in because I believed in Jesus, to me not believing in would be like thinking you could have a chicken without the egg.
Well, for me it was the other way around. I only wanted to believe in Jesus because the idea of scared me. But what a of an egg, though, isn't it?
Quote:
Yes was Scarey, but I was not scared. Like seeing a Lion behind a cage at the zoo, you look at it, and when it roars you take a quick step back because you know that if the cage wasn't there, you would be in big trouble, but at the same time you aren't too worried because the cage _is_ there to restrain him. When I was a child, I never believed in Jesus because I was afraid of . I believed in Jesus because I could feel Him near me when I would pray, I asked, earnestly, for Him to come into my life and help guide me when I was unsure, to comfort me when I was alone and to teach me when I was ignorant. Unless you have been there to know, you wouldn't understand what I'm about to say but the truth is at that moment I felt the Holy Spirit come over me, it was a strange tingling sensation that went all over me, it ran down my spine and back up it again and it was... indescribable.
I've been a child who was praying earnestly, from the deepest reaches of my heart. I don't know what seperates you and I in our outcomes, maybe I needed a less subtle sign then a strangle tingling sensation? I can imagine what a mystical experience feels like, for I've taken psychedelics and experienced what i'd regard as a mystical experience myself, but that just furthers my thought that maybe these "mystical experiences" are maybe just chemical reactions in the brain mixed with superstition and expectations.

Like I've been questioning reality a lot lately, as anyone should, and when I smoked some salvia I had a brief 2-second or so dream where I found out nothing was real, my whole life was fake, I could see my family leaving me, and I felt greatly alone, but not completely scared or sad, just empty. It was very engulfing, strange, and even profound for me, and I don't know how to take it, it could be interpretted a lot of different ways, mostly as just a freak hallucination, but I still enjoy exploring my mind and seeing if I can bring out any self-revelations, and if I was a religious person I'd definitely interpret that as some sort of sign from , as shamans/Indians, and other peaceful self-sustaining, and hence extinct, cultures did.

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As a Child, and you will see a combination of youthful imagination intertwined with faith, I believed, in full and total honesty that if I ever saw a Demon from (you are prepared for anything as a kid) that I didn't have to be afraid because would put a sword in my hand to fight him with, should one show up. Yeah, it sounds corny, but to an 8 year old sleeping alone in the dark, and scared, not of the boogyman who didn't exist but of demons that everyone said DID in fact exist this was pretty significant.

I still think that way to this day though, not in the literal "put a sword in my hand" sense, but in the sense that no matter what comes into my life, what trials I face or anything that may happen, the Lord will always put things into my life that I can use to overcome. I also recognise, that sometimes I am that tool for another person. I allow myself to be used as a vessel to teach others of Him in whatever fashion He chooses. The truth of the matter is, it is not me doing anything or getting anything done, it is the Holy Spirit working through me, I am merely a willing vessel.

I still feel it when He moves me, I feel the Spirit guide me along when I am unsure and yes,sometimes I feel it move me to do things I don't want to do. However, it's never led me astray, even when everything in my body told me not to, and it said yes and I did it, it has always been right.


I'm getting off topic, if you grow up not believing, or unsure, it is harder to come to Christ because your logical mind wants to reject Christ.
Well, it would seem hard to explain how so many Christians mess up so much with the Holy Spirit guiding them, but it's always been right for you. The thing is, lots of people have done lots of crazy things because they believed in or just superstitious thinking in general. They may run into a veil of bullets because they think they feel will protect them, they may jump off of a building because for some reason they think they can fly, or they may drink a bunch of cyanide because they think they're going to heaven with Jim Jones, but all I can see that all of these people have in common is they had that "superstitious thinking", the same superstitious thinking I see present throughout Christianity, Isam, Judeaism, etc., and I think this Can be very dangerous.

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Telling people come to because hurts is the exact wrong thing to say to bring someone to just as you said it would, because it would be out of fear not love. There are two types of preachers, both needed, you have the evangelical preacher, and the gospel preacher.
So you tell them to love , and you tell them About , but you don't necessarily tell them to disregard in your choice, or else what would be the point in bringing it up?
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The Evangelical preachers are the ones like Billy Graham, who has had a greater ministry, and has brought more people to Christ than any other person in the history of the world. They get to preach all of the good stuff of being saved, they actually do not bring up . They tell you about the joys of being a Christian without the obligations of being a Christian. Kind of like when you buy a car, they don't mention how you have to keep putting gas in it, changing the oil and buying new tires to maintain it, they just tell you how smooth it rides and how comfortable it is.
So they purposely mislead people in a good-only biased interpretation of the Bible? I guess this quote from mr. BG would explain it well "Your mind cannot possibly understand . Your heart already knows." so what's the point in explaining the Truth of the bible, right?? We can't understand it....
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Your Sunday school preacher, the one who gives you the gospel, he is the one who educates you on the finer points of the Bible, what is, how it works, how to avoid it, what is, how He works, How to embrace him...

The truth of the matter is, most people do not hear too much about until it has no effect on them anymore spiritually.
I heard about much as a young child, and it doesn't really take Much of hearing about it anyways. All you need to hear as a kid is "eternal " "forever" "burn" "fire", and you're set for Jesus, I think.

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Old 03-12-2007, 12:18 PM   #239
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The same thing goes with what is spoken here, if I try and sit down and write up what I feel needs to be said, I will surely fail. I pray, and wait, and the Holy Ghost Guides me, just as Jesus instructed in that chapter of Luke. He knows what needs to be said, He is just waiting for me to give Him the mic to say it, which I gladly do. I am not the teacher, He is, I am merely the vessel through which His word is delivered.
So let me get this straight. made us so we can be driven around by a Holy Ghost and do right by him? He doesn't want us to act necessarily, except to pass the mic, and he wants the Holy Ghost to act through us?

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2. Trust in the Lord

30For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.

31But rather seek ye the kingdom of ; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Dr. Evans talked once about his childhood, he grew up during a recession and he had a few siblings living with him and his parents. His parents didn't always have money to buy food so every once and a while his dad would take him down to the pier with a cane pole and some crawfish they had caught. They would sit out on the dock and fish and bring home the fish that ms evans would fry up and they would eat that night.

They could have sat around hungry and complained "Oh Lord Why have thou forsaken me??" but they didn't, they were hungry, they took their pole and put it in the water and said "Lord thou art mighty and I know that if I stick this pole in this water you will provide me with food for the evening" and there, through Faith, they waited on the Lord to send them a fish and while they felt hunger, they never went hungry!

knew they needed food, He's not blind, the Evans family knew this too, they sought the Lord and Trusted the Lord and the Lord Provided what He knew they needed.
That's funny, my Grandpa(a mormon) once told me that if he asked , he could catch a fish any time he wanted, and he really believed it, I think. Needless to say, he wouldn't ask.

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Old 03-12-2007, 12:30 PM   #240
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Belief.

What is believing?

The Definition of Believe is as follows

Main Entry: be·lieve
Function: verb
1 to consider to be true or honest <believe the reports> <you wouldn't believe how long it took> b : to accept the word or evidence of <I believe you> <couldn't believe my ears>

To many people get this definition confused.

To believe in Jesus means that You Believe without a doubt that He can do All of the things He says He can Do. You believe if He wanted he could throw the Mountain into the Sea, you believe He can give the Blind sight and the Cripple Legs, You believe that He can Raise the dead.

Too many people say "I tried to believe.. but I still was not happy with my life so I stopped" Thats not believing, thats setting circumstances. True belief has no circumstances. You do not believe if you say "I will believe in you if you make these things happen in my life, if your real I'll get this or you'll do that for me" thats not belief, thats a sales pitch.

True belief is "Lord, I believe in you and I trust you"

Not everyone in the Bible believed was right away, even those who heard His voice directly.
Faith has no circumstances. Belief does. If I look at the screen and it turns into a tire I will not believe my eyes because in my past experience it has always been a screen, and never a tire. If I grab the tire, inspect it, and it remains a tire, than I will start to question my memory and my brain in general. I won't say 'I believe this is a screen' when I perceive it as a tire, because the circumstances(senses) surrounding this belief tell me differently.
Are you saying True Belief Is Faith?

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