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Old 03-09-2007, 10:13 AM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Nope. Here, I'll show you.



Me, mentioning 's killing of all the first born sons in Egypt.
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Okay, so you laid out your forgiveness text, here's something I'd like you to find the same love and forgiveness in.

11:3 And the LORD gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians. Moreover the man Moses was very great in the land of Egypt, in the sight of Pharaoh's servants, and in the sight of the people.
11:4 And Moses said, Thus saith the LORD, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt: .
11:5 And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.
11:6 And there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there was none like it, nor shall be like it any more.
11:7 But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that the LORD doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel.
11:8 And all these thy servants shall come down unto me, and bow down themselves unto me, saying, Get thee out, and all the people that follow thee: and after that I will go out. And he went out from Pharaoh in a great anger.
11:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you; that my wonders may be multiplied in the land of Egypt.
11:10 And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and he LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.

You responding to this, saying I don't consider the circumstances under which was just in killing these babies.
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
It's funny that you cite this verse without having cited or made note of the circumstances upon which this decision was predicated-the pharoahs agreement with to allow the Jews to leave Egypt and then reniging at the last moment, not to mention the fact that the Egyptions had enslaved the Jews with the amount of harseness you would afford a rat. Consider more than just individual words and look for to the entire story and perhaps the meaning behind it.

I continue to talk about the babies of egypt
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Please stop implicating my knowledge and rational, it's really condescending for you to say what I consider and I do not consider.
I didn't make a note of the circumstances because they don't seem important. If I told you I was going to kill every baby in houston tonight, would you say, 'well..before i ask if that's something good or bad, let me ask how you might justify that', or would you be like 'WTF is the matter with you? What has any baby ever done to deserve to die?'
Oh, but again, I'm not so I can't kill innocent babies, but wait you said he doesn't kill the innocent and you also implied the people of Sodom and Gomorrah deserved their fate.

You ask me how do I know if there were any babies in the city walls (of egypt?)
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Well therein lies your problem, you don't consider relevant facts and think nothing of context, please excuse my conclusion, I'm basing it off of what I am reading of your posts. You're right, you are not so I won't get into the impossible hypothetical situation. If you told me you were going to kill every baby in Houston tonight, I would report you. How do you know there were actually any babies within either cities walls? You don't. And here's something to think about: If everyone was either homosexual or otherwise abominable, how would there even be any babies?
When you actually go back and read Alice, you see that all of my posts when talking about the "killing of innocents" were originally intended for Sodom and Gomorra, hence the use of the words "either cities" walls. You however, are very good about quickly changing the subject making it difficult to stay focused on any particular argument. First it Sodom & Gomorra then suddenly it's Egypt, second it's faith, then its justness and love. I think the reason you have such a hard time is because you so rapidly and readily go off topic. I had offered this before but lets settle one thing before we jump to another. Let's either be talking about Faith, the degree to which we can credit with those characteristics of love & justness or certain events in the Bible which prove themselves controversial. In order words, argue a point until either party acquiesces or at least agrees to disagree and then, at that intelligibly distinct time, move on to the next topic of discussion. Deal? You start and we'll either repost certain items or type up new ones.
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Old 03-09-2007, 11:00 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Okay, I skimmed through the link. I agree that it's probably not wise to quote wiki-created text, but a lot of wiki has citations that you can check with the click of a mouse, and I think it's a whole lot more comprehensive source of information than any place I've encountered, and to be honest I love wikipedia. I think it's a great place to go on a "learning adventure", you just have to be cautious of what you "accept", like with anything else.

Here's back up for the info I cited from wiki, just to show that it is somewhat thorough, although all the sources could be called into question as well.

Flavius Josephus, a Romano-Jewish historian, wrote:
"Now, about this time the Sodomites, overweeningly proud of their numbers and the extent of their wealth, showed themselves insolent to men and impious to the divinity, insomuch that they no more remembered the benefits that they had received from him, hated foreigners and avoided any contact with others. Indignant at this conduct, accordingly resolved to chastise them for their arrogance, and not only to uproot their city, but to blast their land so completely that it should yield neither plant nor fruit whatsoever from that time forward."— Jewish Antiquities 1:194-195

Notice any similarity between their behaviors and usa?

But of course they were supposedly pervs too.

"And the angels came to the city of the Sodomites...when the Sodomites beheld the young men, who were outstanding in beauty of appearance and who had been received into Lots’s house, they set about to do violence and outrage to their youthful beauty....Therefore, , indignant at their bold acts, struck them with blindness, so that they were unable to find the entrance into the house, and condemned the Sodomites to destruction of the whole population."
Yea I agree is one of the most comprehensive sources of information on the internet and yes you have to just have to sift through what is real and verify sources and you'll be fine. that was a helluva run on. Yeah there are some similarities here in the US...scary
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Old 03-09-2007, 11:41 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
i was just watching a fire ant commercial, showing a young child running through the lawn, the father displaying a carefree demeanor. i was also juggling thoughts of religion and so i wondered, what if commercials took on the marketing tactics of Christianity? which led me to ask...
which fire ant commercial is more effective at gaining customers?

the fire ant commercial that shows you the happy picnic you could have with your family on the front lawn, smiles all around, pure bliss for everyone?

or the fire ant commercial that shows you a person engulfed in ants, eaten to the bone, because they didn't buy the product?

or the commercial that contrasts the two and tells you that those are your only choices?
I'm no Behavioral Psychologist and I was going to say that the utopian ideal would be more effective but then I go back to the 2004 elections and the effectiveness of Bush's statement regarding a democratic president and that were the voting public to elect a demoratic President, we would undoubtedly incur another attack....I would have to say negative campaigns tend to do better. :eh: Thing is, the Bible is presented as the former. :icon_bigg
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Old 03-09-2007, 11:58 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
I'm no Behavioral Psychologist and I was going to say that the utopian ideal would be more effective but then I go back to the 2004 elections and the effectiveness of Bush's statement regarding a democratic president and that were the voting public to elect a demoratic President, we would undoubtedly incur another attack....I would have to say negative campaigns tend to do better. :eh: Thing is, the Bible is presented as the former. :icon_bigg
I have to disagree with you based on the text of the bible and on my own experience. If you want to explain to me how the bible is actually a loving text, and not a fear-inducing one, I'll try to explain why I think it's a fear-generating text.

Today I was riding down the road, thinking about . I thought for a second, what if he really does exist? every time i let myself consider this i get sort of a fluttery feeling. I call that feeling fear. It's the most primitive sort, because I'm far from rationally fearing him, but it's just sort of a flashback to feelings I had in the past. Much the way a victim of a rapist might feel with PTSD, apprehensive and distraught at the thought of past conflicts.
How many Christians here did not hear stories of as a child? If you did, do you think it had a large affect on you?
I know they had a great effect on me, and I'm glad they did. I'm glad I didn't just decide to half believe, be "luke-warm" for jesus as I think some people do(those who believe, but don't care to talk/think about it)
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Old 03-09-2007, 12:03 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
When you actually go back and read Alice, you see that all of my posts when talking about the "killing of innocents" were originally intended for Sodom and Gomorra, hence the use of the words "either cities" walls. You however, are very good about quickly changing the subject making it difficult to stay focused on any particular argument. First it Sodom & Gomorra then suddenly it's Egypt, second it's faith, then its justness and love. I think the reason you have such a hard time is because you so rapidly and readily go off topic. I had offered this before but lets settle one thing before we jump to another. Let's either be talking about Faith, the degree to which we can credit with those characteristics of love & justness or certain events in the Bible which prove themselves controversial. In order words, argue a point until either party acquiesces or at least agrees to disagree and then, at that intelligibly distinct time, move on to the next topic of discussion. Deal? You start and we'll either repost certain items or type up new ones.
It's clear if you read over the quotes I present, that represented our conversation about Egypt that you switched from talking about babies being killed in Egypt, to babies being killed in S&G, but it's not a big deal. We can leave it at that.

I agree that our conversations get off topic and complicated quickly, perhaps due to the intricacy of the issues

I think we could split the past couple of pages up into about 100 discussions, are you up to it?
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:11 PM   #206
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Doubtful, due to the record on the history of these types of findings...Interesting. well, it just is fella...
fair enough...fair enough
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:14 PM   #207
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fair enough...fair enough
lol
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:33 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
I have to disagree with you based on the text of the bible and on my own experience. If you want to explain to me how the bible is actually a loving text, and not a fear-inducing one, I'll try to explain why I think it's a fear-generating text.
We have the entirety of the thread for that. I would tell you though to focus on the New Testament as that text is the text upon which we as Christians (for those of us who are) are to abide by. I would definately like to see the verses you are referring to in the New testament that allude to and solidify your idea that Christianity is, intrinsicly, a fear-generating text. That is to say that the point of Christianity is more to bring fear to the people than love happiness and most importantly, the word of .

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Today I was riding down the road, thinking about . I thought for a second, what if he really does exist? every time i let myself consider this i get sort of a fluttery feeling. I call that feeling fear. It's the most primitive sort, because I'm far from rationally fearing him, but it's just sort of a flashback to feelings I had in the past. Much the way a victim of a rapist might feel with PTSD, apprehensive and distraught at the thought of past conflicts.
How many Christians here did not hear stories of as a child? If you did, do you think it had a large affect on you?
I know they had a great effect on me, and I'm glad they did. I'm glad I didn't just decide to half believe, be "luke-warm" for jesus as I think some people do(those who believe, but don't care to talk/think about it)
I heard references to but it was not nearly the main thing you heard, atleast in my experience. I heard more about purgatory and limbo than I did about . Now with reference to your statement about every now and then having the feeling that perhaps he could exist, do you not think that there is cause for that? The human psyche is an interesting thing and the mere fact that throughout humanity, man has had an inkling that there was perhaps, something else.I don't think that this is mere coincidence but rather, tugging at you to give him a chance. Slightly nudging you towards him and perhaps the realization of him. The beautiful thing about it is that you have the free will to make your choices but he, like a loving father will not forget or alienate you. I really think you should just try reading the Bible, as a skeptic and once you have read from Genesis to Revelation having read and understood that the Old Testament is to be read more as a historical text and the New Testament, although being history itself, is more to the example seen in Christ that is to be followed today, then atleast you'll have a better understanding of Christianity.
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:39 PM   #209
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We have the entirety of the thread for that. I would tell you though to focus on the New Testament as that text is the text upon which we as Christians (for those of us who are) are to abide by. I would definately like to see the verses you are referring to in the New testament that allude to and solidify your idea that Christianity is, intrinsicly, a fear-generating text. That is to say that the point of Christianity is more to bring fear to the people than love happiness and most importantly, the word of .
I'm sure there are plenty of violent texts in the NT as well, although there are good and loving ones as well, but what does that mean? Contradiction.

Quote:
I heard references to but it was not nearly the main thing you heard, atleast in my experience. I heard more about purgatory and limbo than I did about . Now with reference to your statement about every now and then having the feeling that perhaps he could exist, do you not think that there is cause for that? The human psyche is an interesting thing and the mere fact that throughout humanity, man has had an inkling that there was perhaps, something else.I don't think that this is mere coincidence but rather, tugging at you to give him a chance. Slightly nudging you towards him and perhaps the realization of him. The beautiful thing about it is that you have the free will to make your choices but he, like a loving father will not forget or alienate you. I really think you should just try reading the Bible, as a skeptic and once you have read from Genesis to Revelation having read and understood that the Old Testament is to be read more as a historical text and the New Testament, although being history itself, is more to the example seen in Christ that is to be followed today, then atleast you'll have a better understanding of Christianity.
I think there is cause for my considering the existence of . It's called thoughtfulness. I consider something, then I think about it until I reach a resolution or set it aside. In this case I reached the resolve that most likely is not real due to my understanding and perception of the world and life.
I don't think reading it all will make any difference other than I'll be more knowledgable as to it's contents. I already get the "gist" though. I went to Sunday School and church for a long time as well, so I've had some exposure to these things. *Though I must say I do aspire to become more knowledgable about various religious texts, though I'm far from a heavy reader and the bible is a very big, oversaturated book.
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Old 03-09-2007, 02:05 PM   #210
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I'm sure there are plenty of violent texts in the NT as well, although there are good and loving ones as well, but what does that mean? Contradiction.
No because context is key. If you were to hear me say: "...kill them all" and then you realized that I was a doctor preping for surgery and was referring to the germs on my hands so as to not expose my patient to said germs, it would be quite important to understand the context of my saying what it was that I said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
I think there is cause for my considering the existence of . It's called thoughtfulness. I consider something, then I think about it until I reach a resolution or set it aside. In this case I reached the resolve that most likely is not real due to my understanding and perception of the world and life.
I don't think reading it all will make any difference other than I'll be more knowledgable as to it's contents. I already get the "gist" though. I went to Sunday School and church for a long time as well, so I've had some exposure to these things. *Though I must say I do aspire to become more knowledgable about various religious texts, though I'm far from a heavy reader and the bible is a very big, oversaturated book.
Is becoming more knowledgeable on the Bible not a worthy endeavour? If nothing else you would have firepower with which to refute arguments made from within the text. Your concept thoughtfulness, you say dictates that you think about something for a time, and either come to a conclusion or set it aside. But the idea of keeps coming up, I wonder why? If you had come to a resolution...why is it constantly manifesting itself in your psyche? And you say you had exposure but this exposure was before you had the ability to critically think and consider what was being taught to you.
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Old 03-09-2007, 02:16 PM   #211
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No because context is key. If you were to hear me say: "...kill them all" and then you realized that I was a doctor preping for surgery and was referring to the germs on my hands so as to not expose my patient to said germs, it would be quite important to understand the context of my saying what it was that I said.
I don't think context is quite so important when all of the references to "killing" are humans, or at least not in the texts we are discussing. There are differing degrees of morality amongst people, I realize that, and maybe some people who do really terrible things do deserve to die, but I don't see any sense in 's killing people for economic and crimes of depravity, or killing children because of something their parents do, but I guess you do. I don't think these acts are something my idea of would do. Why do you encourage me to read the NT, in that you are at the same time telling me to disregard the Old Testament, and hence sort of sweeping it under the rug. I know there's nuggets of 'love' and 'goodness' scattered around the bible, and I'm sure you can point out a few, but my point is, again, that there are ferocious, illogical, irrational, mean-spirited texts as well and they seem to say a lot more.

Quote:
Is not becoming more knowlegeable on the Bible not a worthy endeavour? If nothing else you would have firepower with which to refute arguments made from within the text. Your concept thoughtfulness, you say dictates that you think about something for a time, and either come to a conclusion or set it aside. But the idea of keeps coming up, I wonder why? If you had come to a resolution...why is it constantly manifesting itself in your psyche? And you say you had exposure but this exposure was before you had the ability to critically think and consider what was being taught to you.
At the bottom of my text I added "Though I must say I do aspire to become more knowledgable about various religious texts".
The idea of keeps coming up because it's something that I'm trying to understand. And , to get things straight, doesn't necessarily mean Your . I often refer to a general 'higher truth' as , since that's what it's representative to some people. This is far from saying I believe in the Bible and contemplate the existence of that often. I don't, really. Like I said, I got that over with when I was younger, underneath my bedsheets praying for redemption and understanding and blah blah, but that's done now and the consideration of the biblical as something real only occurs rarely now, and is easily extinguished once I think about it.
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Old 03-09-2007, 02:31 PM   #212
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I don't think context is quite so important when all of the references to "killing" are humans, or at least not in the texts we are discussing. There are differing degrees of morality amongst people, I realize that, and maybe some people who do really terrible things do deserve to die, but I don't see any sense in 's killing people for economic and crimes of depravity, or killing children because of something their parents do, but I guess you do. I don't think these acts are something my idea of would do. Why do you encourage me to read the NT, in that you are at the same time telling me to disregard the Old Testament, and hence sort of sweeping it under the rug. I know there's nuggets of 'love' and 'goodness' scattered around the bible, and I'm sure you can point out a few, but my point is, again, that there are ferocious, illogical, irrational, mean-spirited texts as well and they seem to say a lot more.
Context is always important within any discussion about anything. You can't make an argument for or against something without a sense of the context about taht which you are referring to. I never at any point said disregard the OT, matter of fact I said read it from Genesis TO Revelations to gain perspective. I just told you to think of the OT as a historical text and the thing that bugs me most is that Ramius pointed out exactly why certain things seen in the OT do not really apply to today such as burnt offerings and such due to Christ's dying on the cross and still you overlook it. With that I do so feel inclined to be as clear as I can: DO NOT DISREGARD THE OLD TESTAMENT, but the rules changed when Christ died and were you to read the entire Bible, you would understand the why's, how's and what's.

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At the bottom of my text I added "Though I must say I do aspire to become more knowledgable about various religious texts".
The idea of keeps coming up because it's something that I'm trying to understand. And , to get things straight, doesn't necessarily mean Your . I often refer to a general 'higher truth' as , since that's what it's representative to some people. This is far from saying I believe in the Bible and contemplate the existence of that often. I don't, really. Like I said, I got that over with when I was younger, underneath my bedsheets praying for redemption and understanding and blah blah, but that's done now and the consideration of the biblical as something real only occurs rarely now, and is easily extinguished once I think about it.
Since your say you "do aspire to become more knowledgable about various religious texts", why not then read the Bible? Can't hurt you, there is a reason for the fear you have. I realize that you are not referring to the Biblical , but you obviously feel that there is something out there and from my perspective, it is my you have this inkling about. That is however irrelevant at this point, the point is that you have a feeling and you should definately continue your search or path as some would call it.
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Old 03-09-2007, 02:52 PM   #213
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Context is always important within any discussion about anything. You can't make an argument for or against something without a sense of the context about taht which you are referring to. I never at any point said disregard the OT, matter of fact I said read it from Genesis TO Revelations to gain perspective. I just told you to think of the OT as a historical text and the thing that bugs me most is that Ramius pointed out exactly why certain things seen in the OT do not really apply to today such as burnt offerings and such due to Christ's dying on the cross and still you overlook it. With that I do so feel inclined to be as clear as I can: DO NOT DISREGARD THE OLD TESTAMENT, but the rules changed when Christ died and were you to read the entire Bible, you would understand the why's, how's and what's.
Okay, well here's the context. Death is bad, life is good. killed, and hence took the life(good) away from those who had done no bad(the babies) and by those who were only somewhat bad by today's standards(including 'christians'). I never said the OT applied today, I'm just questioning the actions in their original 'context'.



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Since your say you "do aspire to become more knowledgable about various religious texts", why not then read the Bible? Can't hurt you, there is a reason for the fear you have. I realize that you are not referring to the Biblical , but you obviously feel that there is something out there and from my perspective, it is my you have this inkling about. That is however irrelevant at this point, the point is that you have a feeling and you should definately continue your search or path as some would call it.
Why not read the bible, well why not read what I type? Because I'm not a heavy reader and I think there are a lot of things out there Much More Worth reading than the bible. I haven't even begun reading anything very particular about Buddhism yet, and I'm thoroughly interested in it. I'm just being honest about my procrastinative nature.
Yes there is a reason for the fear that I have, like I said it's similar to a rape victim's reflection of past crimes, and it's easily dismissed, for me, with reason based on goodness.
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Old 03-09-2007, 03:28 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Okay, well here's the context. Death is bad, life is good. killed, and hence took the life(good) away from those who had done no bad(the babies) and by those who were only somewhat bad by today's standards(including 'christians'). I never said the OT applied today, I'm just questioning the actions in their original 'context'.
Your a funny guy Alice!

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Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Why not read the bible, well why not read what I type? Because I'm not a heavy reader and I think there are a lot of things out there Much More Worth reading than the bible. I haven't even begun reading anything very particular about Buddhism yet, and I'm thoroughly interested in it. I'm just being honest about my procrastinative nature.
Yes there is a reason for the fear that I have, like I said it's similar to a rape victim's reflection of past crimes, and it's easily dismissed, for me, with reason based on goodness.
I read what you type, it's comedy! But seriously, I think that in the future, whenever we have our little discussions, they definately need to be more structured and focus on individual topics rather than spreading out the topic of discussion so broad as to make it difficult to carry out a meaningful, intelligent conversation.
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Old 03-09-2007, 03:39 PM   #215
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Oh and one more thing:



Just for the record. This means that you have to have cited the actual circumstances surrounding the Passover as it is commonly referred to (i.e. The Pharoah's actions leading up to the passover).
So you're saying it's not necessarily bad to kill a bunch of children, but it depends on the context of it? Correct?
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Old 03-09-2007, 03:39 PM   #216
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Okay, well here's the context. Death is bad, life is good. killed, and hence took the life(good) away from those who had done no bad(the babies) and by those who were only somewhat bad by today's standards(including 'christians'). I never said the OT applied today, I'm just questioning the actions in their original 'context'.
Oh and one more thing:

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con·text [kon-tekst] Pronunciation Key

1. the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect: You have misinterpreted my remark because you took it out of context.
Just for the record. This means that you have to have cited the actual circumstances surrounding the Passover as it is commonly referred to (i.e. The Pharoah's actions leading up to the passover).
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Old 03-09-2007, 03:44 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Oh and one more thing:



Just for the record. This means that you have to have cited the actual circumstances surrounding the Passover as it is commonly referred to (i.e. The Pharoah's actions leading up to the passover).
I have to cite it to consider it? I thought the debate was whether I consider them or not.
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Old 03-09-2007, 03:48 PM   #218
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So you're saying it's not necessarily bad to kill a bunch of children, but it depends on the context of it? Correct?
No I'm not saying whether it is or is not "ok" to kill "a bunch of children" but rather, being that is and the fact that the world is a crude place and the fact that those children were probably better off in heaven and the fact that I am not , it is within his scope of powers to do as he does. I don't know, Alice, why exactly, he felt it was ok to take the lives of every firstborn son of Egypt, but it was done, why not ask him and find out or just drop it because regardless of who you ask, no one on this earth will be able to give you a definite answer. You totally disregard the circumstances surrounding the event so you don't have much ground to stand on other than "what you have heard" or what others say happened and reasons they happened if it were apable of being considered ground to stand on.
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Old 03-09-2007, 03:50 PM   #219
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I have to cite it to consider it? I thought the debate was whether I consider them or not.
Right but if you are going to refute an event which occured as described in the Bible and you are getting your information from the Bible then yes you must cite the circumstances upon which the event was predicated, as written IN THE BIBLE. Hope that's not too hard to understand...

This is the foundation upon whic debate is founded, intelligent discussion based on credible, tangible evidences.
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Old 03-09-2007, 04:10 PM   #220
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No I'm not saying whether it is or is not "ok" to kill "a bunch of children" but rather, being that is and the fact that the world is a crude place and the fact that those children were probably better off in heaven and the fact that I am not , it is within his scope of powers to do as he does. I don't know, Alice, why exactly, he felt it was ok to take the lives of every firstborn son of Egypt, but it was done, why not ask him and find out or just drop it because regardless of who you ask, no one on this earth will be able to give you a definite answer. You totally disregard the circumstances surrounding the event so you don't have much ground to stand on other than "what you have heard" or what others say happened and reasons they happened if it were apable of being considered ground to stand on.
Okay, well you're saying did it, and is perfect, and can do no wrong, so implicitly you're saying he did the right thing, and it's just his mysterious nature that we can't figure out, well I don't buy that, sorry. Truth and belief should be based on understanding, and there's not a lot that's understandable about a lot of the Bible. You say why he Thought it was okay, is that to say you think thinks? Can think if he already knows everything? I don't totally disregard the circumstances, once again, I'M SAYING IT DOESN'T MATTER!!! JUST LIKE YOU SAID IT WOULDN'T MATTER IF I TOLD YOU I WAS GOING TO KILL A BUNCH OF BABIES TONIGHT, BECAUSE TO ME THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE GOODNESS/badness IN MY ACTIONS AND THE GOODNESS/badness IN 'S ACTIONS. The ground I am standing on is called morality. You're requirement of verification of every single thing is beyond ridiculous. I don't cite something to the fullest extent, and it's nothing but hearsay.
You say I only take into account what others have said and what I've heard, well what are you taking into account? You're taking into account what was written down by a man, 1000s of years ago, whose intentions and state of mind you most likely do not know. do you know how legitimate the Bible is, and hence know every author and how he acquired each piece of info? Oh wait, you have faith, nvm. Why don't You go the extra step and after citing the bible, cite another source to back up that information and cite where they found that information out just so we can be sure we're not reading a bunch of BS.
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